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Outdated Sayings & Lost Meanings

I expect that in a few years time when we all will have 'smart cards' to register our Euros on everyone will be mystified by the expression 'bent as a nine bob note' !
 
"Then the balloon went up" comes from the American Civil War, when tethered balloons were used by artillery spotters. When the balloon went up, shit was about to descend!

And, currency-wise, "No' the fu' shilling" is sadly falling into disuse....
 
As is "hand on your ha'penny", "ha'porth of tar" and such like. Bearing in mind that we've been decimal for thirty years though, a lot of these phrases are still present: it's nearly impossible to tell what will thrive in linguistic terms.
 
I just sent an email using the phrase "to lug around" (a library of books). I wonder what the origin of that usage is?

In engineering, rigging, etc, a lug is an ear-like extension used for attaching wires, shackles, or ropes, so perhaps that has something to do with it?
 
Aah Lugging... some friends of mine have a boat called a 'Looe Lugger' and there are also Drascombe Luggers and all sorts of other Luggers... does that have any relevance d'you think - or is it to do with Lugg Worms ??
 
Yes, Haarp, I think there may be a link. (As an old sailor myself I should have thought of it earlier.)

There are many types of lug sails: one of the most powerful is the dipping lug, which was used by Cornish and Breton fishing boats.

The disadvantage of it is that to go from one tack to another, the sail has to be partially lowered (hence 'dipping') and the yard and sail hauled around to the other side of the mast by hand. With a large sail this would be quite a chore, so 'lugging it around' would be an appropriate phrase.

The 'lateen' sails seen on Arab dhows work in a similar fashion.

(Modern lugs used in pleasure craft use standing lugs, which are easier and safer to use.)
 
James Whitehead said:
The two-fingered salute is certainly ancient, but I'd understood it to be
the sign of the horns, signalling a cuckold.
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Nah, the 'horns' of the cuckold are that thing where the index and the little finger are held upright while the other fingers are folded into the palm: Dr. Strange used to make the cuckold gesture whenever casting spells in his comic book (leastways he did when Ditko was drawing it).
 
I never cease to be amazed at the extent of Rynner's knowledge . . . :)

This site is quite useful for those elusive and apparently meaningless phrases . . .

Carole
 
What about 'I'll have your guts for garters' or 'he'll/she'll have his/her guts for garters'? Meaning that the first person could beat the second person easily
 
I shall probably lose all my street-cred for bringing this up, but it has me baffled:

A description of one of the Burton players due to take on the mighty Man U in the FA Cup today:
CHRIS HALL - RIGHT WING
He's a great athlete and can run all day, but sometimes he doesn't know what he's doing. Some of the lads call him village - you read into that what you want, but he's a nice enough lad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 563458.stm
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Is it just an abbreviation of village idiot?
 
Needs must when the devil drives.

Die dog or eat the hatchet.
 
I completely baffled someone the other day by using the phrase 'Uncle Tom Cobbly and all', which I thought was quite well known. I then got to wondering who Uncle Tom Cobbly was. He turns out to be a character from a folksong explaining the history of a ghostly horse: Widdecomb Fair.
 
rynner2 said:
I just sent an email using the phrase "to lug around" (a library of books). I wonder what the origin of that usage is?

In engineering, rigging, etc, a lug is an ear-like extension used for attaching wires, shackles, or ropes, so perhaps that has something to do with it?
Click to expand...

I wonder whether lug or luggage came first? Either way, we're connoting encumbrance. Are lugs bulky compared to other such devices? Or do they weigh things down?
 
It's like the word "burglar" came a couple of hundred years after "burgle". Burgle originally meant robbery of any kind within a city wall (and so came under a city magistrate, whereas robbery was a highway or countryside activity and so was dealt with by county courts.)

I used to have a book which listed all the incredibly specific varieties of crime in Jacobean and Georgian Britain: must see if I can find it (stuff like a "Fnunglarerer" or similar, someone who manufactured fake handkerchiefs for sale to unwary Methodists. I made that up, by the way, but they're along those lines.)
 
Yithian said:
I wonder whether lug or luggage came first? Either way, we're connoting encumbrance. Are lugs bulky compared to other such devices? Or do they weigh things down?
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According to the Online Etymology Dictionary:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lug

... both the verb and noun derive from Scandinavian words for 'to pull by the hair' and 'forelock / tuft', respectively. The noun routed through Scotland; the verb seems to have been adopted directly.

The verb (to pull slowly or with effort) traces back to the 14th century; the noun to the late 15th.
 
stuneville said:
It's like the word "burglar" came a couple of hundred years after "burgle". Burgle originally meant robbery of any kind within a city wall (and so came under a city magistrate, whereas robbery was a highway or countryside activity and so was dealt with by county courts.)
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The Americans have also invented the word "burglarization" instead of saying burglary for some reason. Well, I say "the Americans" like they're some amorphous mass, but American media seems to use the made-up word all the time.
 
GNC said:
The Americans have also invented the word "burglarization" instead of saying burglary for some reason. Well, I say "the Americans" like they're some amorphous mass, but American media seems to use the made-up word all the time.
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This is a new one on me. I don't think I've ever read or heard 'burglarization' used. However ...

It's not new. The term is used in:

Abraham Clark Freeman
The American State Reports: Containing the Cases of General Value and Authority Subsequent to Those Contained in the "American Decisions" [1760-1869] and the "American Reports" [1869-1887] Decided in the Courts of Last Resort of the Several States [1886-1911], Volume 105
Bancroft-Whitney Company, 1905

https://books.google.com/books?id=f...EIjwEwHg#v=onepage&q="burglarization"&f=false

... which includes it once - within a paragraph that also includes the term 'burglary'. o_O

The co-occurrence of both terms in one place suggests someone at some point needed / wanted to lexically distinguish the label for the statutory crime from the activity or action(s) for which one was accused of said crime.
 
I'm only going by clickbait-y headlines I see online from US sites, but I don't recall hearing the word at all before this century.
 
Yithian said:
I wonder whether lug or luggage came first? Either way, we're connoting encumbrance. Are lugs bulky compared to other such devices? Or do they weigh things down?
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and what about the other kind of lug, a big dumb loutish fellow (whose louche girlfriend probably refers to him as "ya big lug") who undoubtedly hauls luggage around sordid hotel lobbies?
 
courtesy of a charlotte, NC pal of mine hold someones heels to the fire, or hold their feet to the fire, is to coerce ... what an especially plains-esque image

never wear brown in town, but i do, sometimes hat to shoe ... i was recently able to relate this propensity to my first ever suit, aged 6 or 7, a two-button single-breasted corduroy affair that i only remember wearing once ... my fixation with brown at one point became so encompassing i considered acquiring a brown car, stopped short of changing my name to simply brown ... i think the original saying is in reference to country folks' attempts to blend in in the big city
 
That's jake with me.
That's dutch with me.
Stop queering my pitch.
He scotched the deal.
 
I loved the (presumably) fake sayings in the film Heathers ... "F**k me gently with a chainsaw" and "Did you have a brain tumour for breakfast?" are two that spring to mind ..
 
dreeness . said:
That's dutch with me.
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So: at last it has happened.

The circle is complete.

I looked at the "dutch" phrase provided by the indomitable @dreeness , by copying the text into the Google search engine, in the sure and certain hope of definition.

And where does it take me, dear reader? What does it offer-up??

Well....that would be the use of that exact-same phrase, here on FTMB, back in 2014 (in fact, just ten days short of precisely 3 years, by someone called @dreeness.....
http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/words-and-phrases-you-love-using.57187/page-2

It is the second search engine hit, out of a grand total across all eternity (to-date) of just four instances over the whole of the internet. All appear to refer it back to Carnivàle.

And I'm still not entirely-clear what it is meant to mean....the Google Books reference is not as helpful as it might be.

With great power comes responsibility.

Now: @dreeness....make sure you can sit-down safely. Check for red snipers' laser dots on you chest, and leave that seafood sandwich to one side. You may be the last person on earth to fully-understand the meaning of this rare idiom.

When you respond to this post, in this thread, your answer (not yet written) will be the only answer in the universe to an as-yet unasked / unanswered / unthought question that someone (somewhere/somewhen) will seek an answer to.

Amazing....
 
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henry said:
courtesy of a charlotte, NC pal of mine hold someones heels to the fire, or hold their feet to the fire, is to coerce ... what an especially plains-esque image ...
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I'm originally from your pal's region, and I've heard this idiom all my life. I still hear it used to this day.

The most frequently encountered (but, for all I know, spurious ... ) explanation of its origin is that it refers to torture - specifically burning of the feet to extract information or a confession. The most specific such explanations associate it with medieval inquisitors or the Crusaders.
 
henry said:
... never wear brown in town, but i do, sometimes hat to shoe ... i was recently able to relate this propensity to my first ever suit, aged 6 or 7, a two-button single-breasted corduroy affair that i only remember wearing once ... my fixation with brown at one point became so encompassing i considered acquiring a brown car, stopped short of changing my name to simply brown ... i think the original saying is in reference to country folks' attempts to blend in in the big city
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There are two angles on this phrase - one with general reference to overall attire, and one with more specific reference to shoes alone. Both supposedly trace back to Britain.

My understanding is that the overall attire version alludes to either or both:

- rural / country folks' preference for more functionally-oriented clothing such as tweeds, which are naturally, or more commonly dyed, in earthy hues

- the notion that brown connotes more raw / less processed / less sophisticated / hence cheaper cloth

The shoes-specific version seems to have a much clearer history, deriving from Victorian fashionista imperatives that only black shoes should be worn with proper (i.e., more expensive; more impressive; 'townie") attire.

Cf. Zappa's / Mothers' "Brown Shoes Don't Make It"
 
dreeness . said:
That's jake with me.
That's dutch with me. ...
Click to expand...

The use of 'jake' as an adjective meaning 'OK; all right" dates back to the late 19th / early 20th century in American English slang.

The use of 'dutch' to apparently (given the context) mean the same thing is rare. I've only seen or heard it in the context of early to mid 20th century slang (e.g., in vintage detective stories).

This latter one has always baffled me, because it doesn't seem to correlate with the two main uses of 'dutch' in idioms:

- pejorative / negative implication (e.g., "I'm a Dutchman if ..."; in dutch (in trouble))
- subdivision; distributed (e.g., 'go dutch'; 'dutch treat' - when each in a party pays his / her own way; 'dutch door')
 
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