People Who Feel Wrong

PeteS

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Oh how I absolutely love a well placed speeling mistake.
I wonder how much carp he had in him exactly?
I suspect he probably found out himself. It is over 40 years ago, but I seem to remember there were broken teeth and ribs involved. I abhor violence but sometimes, just sometimes......
 

escargot

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And glad your situation seems to have improved. It must affect your work when you were always jumpy/looking over your shoulder so it was to your employer's benefit.
Spot-on. It's not just me of course, but I'm the only one kicking off. Everyone else seems to feel they're safer if they don't provoke him.

One colleague whom he actually threatened told me 'I'm glad it happened, it cleared the air! I know where I stand now.' That's classic victim-thinking.
 

Eyespy

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Dejanmikic, good find but not my guy. this is way more subtle and mostly aimed at women or lower grades

He is a manager here and on the surface just seems to be a bit over whelming- always has to have the last word. On comparing notes with a couple of others I find I am not the only one who has had the odd, random really unpleasant exhange with him.

These tend to be random targeted remarks made , that leave you upset or wrong footed, with that lingering sense that you may somehow be mistaken. So much so that it is difficult to give examples that mean anything to anyone else

This is an organisation of hot deskers and remote/part time workers, is probably the first time several of his victims have actually compared notes. I will see what happens over next couple weeks
 

brownmane

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@Eyespy, I find people like that need to be called out directly. They get away with it because people don't say "Hey you can't talk that way to me" and call them on it. They think that people will always defer to no confrontation and maintain the facade of civility. Unfortunately that is exactly why they get away with it.

It's tough to confront someone like that, but usually they back off because they are cowardly, which is why they make subtle comments that people excuse as their own misunderstandings. No misunderstanding at all.
 

Ghost In The Machine

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Spot-on. It's not just me of course, but I'm the only one kicking off. Everyone else seems to feel they're safer if they don't provoke him.

One colleague whom he actually threatened told me 'I'm glad it happened, it cleared the air! I know where I stand now.' That's classic victim-thinking.
Sometimes it takes that one brave person to put into words what everyone else is thinking. And you are that person. (Or snail?)
 

escargot

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Sometimes it takes that one brave person to put into words what everyone else is thinking. And you are that person. (Or snail?)
Yup, well, I don't care what people think about me, being a hatchet-faced working class mollusc of 61. Everyone else at my place seems to be so afraid of Mr Angry that they daren't say a word for fear of reprisals from him. That's how bullies work; they rely on people avoiding confrontation, as @brownmane points out.

Of course, as the nature of our job means we're often coming back to base alone at all hours we're vulnerable to ambush. Apart from anyone has a protective partner who'll turn up every night to make sure they're OK. Like Techy does for me.
 

PeteS

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I spoke too soon. Upper management have denied my shift pattern change. Apparently all I need to do is avoid Mr Angry and hurry in and out of the depot at night.
Someone will 'have a word' with him.

Time to bitch up!
Management are really laying themselves open to massive problems and huge legal issues if something happens when they have consistently failed to act.
 

escargot

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Management are really laying themselves open to massive problems and huge legal issues if something happens when they have consistently failed to act.
Yup, I've told my manager that. He is bricking it.

I've got'em now though because the email he read out to me from the big boss stated that although Mr A is a danger to everyone, Scargy can't have early shifts because then the entire depot would be able to ask for the same.
Er, so they're admitting they know he's dangerous? It's on them now. I'll get a copy and take it to the union and I've won.


GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Couldn't put it better myself.
 

Ghost In The Machine

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Yup, I've told my manager that. He is bricking it.

I've got'em now though because the email he read out to me from the big boss stated that although Mr A is a danger to everyone, Scargy can't have early shifts because then the entire depot would be able to ask for the same.
Er, so they're admitting they know he's dangerous? It's on them now. I'll get a copy and take it to the union and I've won.




Couldn't put it better myself.
Straight to the union with that one. Be interesting to see what a legal mind makes of that - as you say, they're openly admitting he's a danger. Think they're going to regret this one.
 

fizzy55

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I spoke too soon. Upper management have denied my shift pattern change. Apparently all I need to do is avoid Mr Angry and hurry in and out of the depot at night.
Someone will 'have a word' with him.

Time to bitch up!
This makes me so angry on your behalf. No one should have to feel unsafe like this. Dont take any chances, please.
Hopefully someone in management will encounter him during one of his episodes and get an idea of what you and others are having to deal with and push for something to be done.
 

Swifty

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This makes me so angry on your behalf. No one should have to feel unsafe like this. Dont take any chances, please.
Hopefully someone in management will encounter him during one of his episodes and get an idea of what you and others are having to deal with and push for something to be done.
The problem with sociopaths in the workplace is that employment law doesn't back up well meaning 'common sense' managers .. to put it bluntly, you can't just fire someone for being a cunt unless he uses violence, is caught drinking taking drugs .. then it's instant dismissal. A manager could get big heat if not fired for constructive dismissal and nervous senior management know this which is why they make the right noises to a member of staff who raises a grievance but then also do nothing confirmative about it.

The later stages, when a sociopath realises that their victim is standing up to them is to play the victim themselves to make the victim look like the bully. Textbook stuff and the employment law agencies are aware of this but are still legally impotent to be able to do anything about it. The victim must keep fastidious written records, easier said than done when they're being ground down by a weirdo as well as normal day to day responsibilities both at work and at home.
 

IbisNibs

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The problem with sociopaths in the workplace is that employment law doesn't back up well meaning 'common sense' managers .. to put it bluntly, you can't just fire someone for being a cunt unless he uses violence, is caught drinking taking drugs .. then it's instant dismissal. A manager could get big heat if not fired for constructive dismissal and nervous senior management know this which is why they make the right noises to a member of staff who raises a grievance but then also do nothing confirmative about it.

The later stages, when a sociopath realises that their victim is standing up to them is to play the victim themselves to make the victim look like the bully. Textbook stuff and the employment law agencies are aware of this but are still legally impotent to be able to do anything about it. The victim must keep fastidious written records, easier said than done when they're being ground down by a weirdo as well as normal day to day responsibilities both at work and at home.
Laws like that can protect people who could be ganged up on by entrenched social groups, so I support the intention. It's probably not humanly possible to enact fool proof laws that can't be exploited by the kind of person who knows how to play victim in order to avoid responsibility for their own craziness. Mentally ill people can be incredibly slick in presenting a sane facade to those who hold power over them. Managers, unfortunately, also can be very slick in covering their own rear ends, and throwing yours under the bus (to coin a phrase), when their jobs could be at stake.

The reassuring thing in Escargot's case is that there is written acknowledgement by a manager that an employee there poses a danger to others.
 

Shady

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Some news on the creepy neighbour front. And there will be more to follow, I guess... Can't put up specifics yet because it's possible there's going to be a court case but let's just say an animal has been got to safety.
Good work there, hope he gets all he deserves
I spoke too soon. Upper management have denied my shift pattern change. Apparently all I need to do is avoid Mr Angry and hurry in and out of the depot at night.
Someone will 'have a word' with him.

Time to bitch up!
Having a word will do nothing, and they have shot themselves in the foot by admitting he is dangerous, if so, he should be dismissed, you go rip em another one dear, show them the error of their ways when they tackle a determined snail
 

PeteS

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The problem with sociopaths in the workplace is that employment law doesn't back up well meaning 'common sense' managers .. to put it bluntly, you can't just fire someone for being a cunt unless he uses violence, is caught drinking taking drugs .. then it's instant dismissal. A manager could get big heat if not fired for constructive dismissal and nervous senior management know this which is why they make the right noises to a member of staff who raises a grievance but then also do nothing confirmative about it.

The later stages, when a sociopath realises that their victim is standing up to them is to play the victim themselves to make the victim look like the bully. Textbook stuff and the employment law agencies are aware of this but are still legally impotent to be able to do anything about it. The victim must keep fastidious written records, easier said than done when they're being ground down by a weirdo as well as normal day to day responsibilities both at work and at home.
The penalty for unfair dismissal if it's proved is a relative pittance though compared to the potential harm these characters can do to the life of co workers and of course harm to the business . It's not that difficult to follow legal procedures in terms of employment law to get rid of an employee. In E's case I would say the employer has not only shot themselves in the foot but blown off their own head by admitting that this character is a danger to everyone. I suspect that if something happened they would lay themselves open to charges of criminal negligence. Shows you how stupid some management is.
 

escargot

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The tricky part of this is the person threatening scargy is not an employee of her company. But it is the duty of her employer to protect her in the workplace. You would think that scargy's employers would have a word with the other company about their problem empliyee.

Go @escargot! Take care.
The two companies have sent each other emails about it, which I have seen. The consensus is that I am an attention-seeking/hysterical troublemaker. I'm looking forward to having this said to my face.
 

Mythopoeika

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The two companies have sent each other emails about it, which I have seen. The consensus is that I am an attention-seeking/hysterical troublemaker. I'm looking forward to having this said to my face.
Get the union onto it.
 

Ghost In The Machine

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It's not all bad. My very supportive and helpful manager has already changed my shifts for the next few weeks, lasting until my actual earlies start, so I'm unofficially on permanent earlies for now. I'm up for a fight over the issue - not with him of course - and will win.
You will. And that's at least a workable solution for now, in terms of your safety. Those emails that have gone back n forth between the two companies really sound vile. Have you got copies or got a way of getting them? Union has to be involved with this one. Sounds like they keep incriminating themselves in their communications.
 

Shady

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The two companies have sent each other emails about it, which I have seen. The consensus is that I am an attention-seeking/hysterical troublemaker. I'm looking forward to having this said to my face.
How dare they, they are making a situation worse, this is tantamount to bullying you, not acceptable, i hope you take the union in with you, disgusting treatment, puts anybody else off reporting anything, trying to silence any witnesses no doubt, tossers, i believe they picked on the wrong un, get em, an make it painful Scargy
 

PeteS

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I wonder if in fact this is a Health and Safety issue,( although I'm not up to date with current legislation) and if so should be reported to the authority. Management have admitted the guy is a danger (how stupid to put that in writing if you intend to do nothing), and they have a duty of care to their employees, failing to carry out that duty can lead to criminal prosecution. The problem is of course that "whistle blowers" always seem to come off worst in such circumstances.
 
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