Police Psychics: Proof Of The Pudding?

[Mighty_Emperor]

Phil Jordan: Psychic Detective

Supernatural Senses
By: Deidra Cross
April 07, 2004

Even as a child, Phil Jordan knew he was different. Born and raised in Candor, Jordan, 54, would go on to lead a less than average life and become a vital instrument in crime solving that over the years would eventually garner him the attention, respect and appreciation of an often skeptical world. From a very young age Jordan realized that he could see, sense and feel things that others could not. He decided early on to embrace his unusual psychic gift and to use it to help others. While his extra-sensory talents have long been known by police departments across the country, Jordan was thrust into the national spotlight this past February when a new Court TV show called "Psychic Detectives" debuted with the retelling of Jordan's first police case. The episode detailed how Jordan in 1974 found a six-year old boy who became lost in the dense woods of Tioga County during a fierce August thunderstorm.

Individuals who knew of Jordan's gifts recruited his assistance and within one hour of beginning his search, he successfully led a search team to the frightened boy who had been missing for 17 hours. Jordan said he used a map he envisioned the night before, and his mental capabilities to locate the boy, Tommy Kennedy, safe and alive - even after 200 searchers were unsuccessful in their attempts.

The response to the show has been overwhelming, Jordan said during a recent interview at his home in Candor. In fact, the show's popularity has brought Court TV back to the small burg this week to film another segment with Jordan. Since the airing Jordan has received letters and e-mails from over 24 different states. He has even grabbed the attention of one of media's most well-known commentators.

"I will be flying to Los Angeles this week to be on Larry King's show. It's set to tape on April 14 and air on the 16th," said Jordan.

Jordan will be on hand to discuss his recent appearance on "Psychic Detectives" and to talk about his nearly 30-year career helping authorities solve mysteries. A career that began with his discovery of Tommy Kennedy in 1974 and lead to his subsequent swearing in as a deputy in Tioga County (he would graduate from the New York State Municipal Police Training Academy in 1976).

Since those early days Jordan has worked on "hundreds of homicide cases" and countless cases involving missing persons, lost children, and even arson. His investigative skills and unusual abilities have lead to him working with police agencies in all levels of government across the country.

"I am very happy to assist law enforcement when they are receptive to my abilities," said Jordan.

Born with a Gift

Phil Jordan describes his gift as an ability to access intense daydream-like visions of the past, present and future. He also claims to be able to read auras - which his Web site (http://www.philjordan.com) describes as an energy field that surrounds every living being and which presents itself through a multitude colors.

Jordan expands on his ability.

"I can turn it up and turn it down, having control over it. I have just learned how my mind works," Jordan said.

When asked if he had ever provided anyone with an unsolicited vision, Jordan replied that generally he keeps quiet, but, "Once, I told a stranger on a street in Buffalo that his sister was scheduled to fly soon and that I could sense that there would be a problem with the aircraft. He happened to believe in the type of abilities I have and he convinced his sister to change the flight." Jordan, who had also correctly guessed the woman's name and occupation, finished the story by explaining that when he later talked to the Buffalo man, he discovered that "although there was no accident, the plane experienced trouble on the runway and did have to be evacuated and the passengers moved to a safer plane."

While this was an exception, for the most part Jordan keeps unsolicited visions to himself. "It's very interesting because people think I work all the time, but I can tune it down when I want," he said.

He also admits to sometimes reading others' auras out of curiosity, even though he does not share what he sees. Jordan said, "Sometimes when I am out at the mall or something I will read peoples auras for fun."

He added that he not only sees things before they happen to others, he can sense his future as well. This was the case a few years back when he was attending family wedding.

"I once saw my own heart attack an hour before it happened - due to a red and gray aura around my heart," Jordan recalled. "I was driven to the hospital, making it there within minutes of saving my life."

Sometimes he senses truths that come from far away. He explained that a few days before the recent abduction of Wisconsin co-ed Audrey Seiler was deemed a hoax by authorities he had sensed that the student hadn't been authentically abducted. "I just knew it," said Jordan.

Wearing Many Hats

Jordan graduated from Corning Community College in 1970 with an Associates of Arts Degree in Humanities and Social Sciences. He also attended the State University of New York at Brockport where he graduated in 1972 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Secondary Education, majoring in High School Spanish.

In 1990, Jordan successfully completed his requirements for a Masters of Science in education degree from Elmira College with his thesis work being in the role of funeral service in the grief process. He graduated from the prestigious Simmons School of Funeral Service in Syracuse in 1988 and met the requirements to be licensed as a New York State funeral director in 1989 and currently owns the Candor Funeral Parlor, Inc.

Jordan is also Pastor-in-Charge of a small country church, the Caroline Center Church, in Caroline Center, after having been ordained in 1988 as a non-denominational Inter-Faith Minister.

When asked how his gifts have interacted with his beliefs, Jordan answered, "My abilities have made me more comfortable and stronger in my faith," and added, "The church fully accepts me as their pastor."

He does acknowledge that some fundamentalists have problems with his ability, but for the most part he is welcomed and accepted in his community.

Jordan also has stepped into the literary world, penning a book in 1999 about his personal journey to self-awareness titled "I Knew This Day Would Come," which details his childhood dealing with growing up in an alcoholic household and his journey to escape to a more comfortable, spiritual habitat.

Finding the first book to be a positive experience, Jordan has a desire to write more books for publication.

"I've got one almost finished on the spirit world which will probably be the next published" said Jordan. "I would also like to write a book on how psychics work with police and will probably write one on collective case experience as well".

In addition to writing about his abilities and experiences, Jordan also lectures and schedules readings and special appearances.

Celebrating Life

As one examines the life of Phil Jordan, it becomes evident that his experiences and business pursuits deal with a lot of the grim aspects of life. Jordan explained that usually what he decides to pursue in life often has to do with his desire to help people.

"I felt that I would be helpful and comforting in the grieving process and could serve the community by opening a funeral home," he said.

When asked how a man with such serious and foreboding positions in his community unwinds, Jordan explained that he enjoys swing dancing, reading, prayer and his time with the Hotel Gould that he owns, located in Seneca Falls.

"It is a lovely Victorian restaurant and hotel. I do my dinner show there called The Psychic Dinner, which is similar to the John Edwards Show. There is also a spiritual phenomenom floor show called The Spirit Connection I do as well."

Jordan clarified that while "not all psychics are clairvoient and vise versa," he is.

He also explained that his work at his church is very satisfying. "The church was built in 1866 and the first Friday of every month the church has a fish fry. We've sold 250 meals in two hours before," beamed Jordan with pride. "Some of the most wonderful parts of my life are in my church and my hotels".

Tips for the Gifted

When asked what advice he would give to others who have discovered or are discovering that they may have abilities similar in nature to his own, Jordan replied that understanding one's gifts and learning to live with them is the beginning.

"First of all, the sooner you accept you have those abilities, the better off you are because you're not going to get rid of them," he said. "Second of all, I tell people not to confuse their abilities with their mind. You need to listen to it with your heart. All spiritiual things come from the heart. That is why you have a cessation of the heart when something is right or joyful. The mind can confuse things, so follow your heart, not your mind. Your mind will screw you all up."

To find out more about Phil Jordan, visit his Web site at http://www.philjordan.com. To make an appointment for a reading, call 639-3225. Jordan also performs at The Gould Hotel at 108 Fall Street, Seneca Falls. The hotel can be reached by calling (315) 568-1282 and has a Web site at http://www.thegould.com.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11256914&BRD=1395&PAG=461&dept_id=216620&rfi=6

 

[MrRING]

It seems like, at least when watching shows like Unexplained Mysteries and other programs, there are a fair amount of psychics that help out (or attempt to help out) on polices cases. It's even hackneyed in fiction now.

But doesn't it imply that there is something to what they do? CSICOP seems to think "no", but considering their modus operandi it's not surprising. What DOES seem surprising is cops still using tips from psychics if there has never been any aid from them in solving crimes - why keep barking up a blind alley like that?

Has any definitive study been done concerning how many times psychics have actually helped on cases, specific cases?

Interestingly enough, CSICOP seems to indicate they work, they just think they are detectives in their own right... as it says at the above link, bolds added for my emphasis: Except in the extremely rare case in which a psychic was actually involved in the crime or had apparently received secret information (as from a tip), psychics rarely lead police to concealed bodies or unknown assailants. Of course they may use their own logical skills, or they may benefit from luck or perseverance, but there is no credible scientific evidence that psychic power ever solved a crime. Instead, crimes are invariably solved by police who search crime scenes, interview witnesses, and perform all of the myriad tasks necessary to locate a missing person or to convict a criminal.

Is this a refusal to look squarely at the evidence on the part of CSICOP? They first indicate that most psychics are little more than "witnesses". Then say they "rarely" find concealed bodies or unknown assailants, and that the psychics may be using their own detective work. Then it says that police solve crimes using their own detective work, ignoring their own earlier statements! Of course, maybe it's just me, but it seems like they don't know how to acknoledge the times that psychic work has been used to solve a crime.

What the opinion about this here?

 

[PeniG]

I avoid having opinions if at all possible (alas, it isn't always!), but I can refer you to a book that will give you lots of information to chew on. *The Blue Sense: Psychic Detectives and Crime,* Arthur Lyons and Marcello Truzzi, The Mysterious Press (Warner Bros./Time Warner) 1991. Truzzi was a founding member of CSCICOP who resigned because he found the organization became oriented toward debunking more than investigating. It's some time since I read my copy (I think I got it new shortly after publication, so that would be 13 years), but this is the memory the contents have cooked down to over the years.

Cops don't care how the bad guy is caught. If they have a tough case, they will take tips from *anybody.* A lot of the daily grind for cops is tracking down vague, dubious, and probably irrelevant information which just might possibly throw up a real clue, so adding a psychic tip to the work load is no big deal.

Psychics routinely exagerrate the degree to which they are used by police departments.

Psychics who have participated in/observed many investigations are of real practical use in missing persons cases in areas where the local law enforcement agency is understaffed and/or primarily experienced in traffic violations and drunk-n-disorderly. Regardless of how valid their psychic visions are, anybody on the team who knows that lost people wander downhill, how to organize a line of searchers in rough terrain, etc., will be valuable.

The authors analyze a number of cases of psychic involvement in police work, and find that, once you factor out the general statements (i.e. "The victim will be found near water," which is afterward counted by the psychic as a hit whether the victim is lying in a puddle, half a mile from a lake, or in the kitchen stuffed under the sink) the hit/miss ratio is disappointing. Moreover, the solid hits that could not be attributed to cold reading, general statements, secret knowledge, bet hedging, and the usual bag of tricks were not useful in solving the crime. The one that sticks in my mind was the prediction that the missing person would be found by someone with an injured hand. The injury happened after the prediction was made and the injured person was the one who found the target - apparent genuine precognition but so what?

And I remember being offended by an instance in which the police department received a directive from On High to *never* use psychics. This offends me on the level of the person doing the work resenting the people who tell others how to do the work. If you don't trust your investigator's judgement, why is he an investigator? Science may not support the usefulness of psychics as psychics, but there might be other reasons to use one and in any case that's not the call of the administration.

One such use - and this was the most consistently successful use of psychics discovered by the authors - is as an interrogation technique. Police interrogators have strict guidelines about what they can and cannot do to suspects - and lying to them is on the allowed list in the U.S. So, you show Joe Blow the Serial Killer Jeane Dixon (or whoever) sitting in the next room and tell him that you have an incredibly gifted and accurate psychic channeling the victim, and surprisingly often he'll make a full, complete, and checkable confession!

 

[lopaka]

It's also of course cliched that particularly gifted police detectives are often credited with having an uncanny "sixth sense" or "hunches" that play out successfully and few if any of them would describe themselves as *psychic*. (though whether because self-described psychics are merely using techniques that would lend themselves to being good homicide investigators or because no self-respecting member of a police department would burden themselves with such a loaded appellation as *pyschic* is an open question.)

FWIW-Somwhere, IMVHO, between the general credulity of Unsloved Mysteries and the debunking certainty of CISCOP (though maybe leaning more to the former) is a current non-fiction program on Court TV, The Psychic Detectives : http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/psychic_detectives/index.html

Give it a whirl, Mr. R.I.N.G., see what you think. I watched a couple this spring. It didn't convince me, but I thought it was pretty cool.

 

[lopaka]

I saw an episode of the Court-TV series last night that was certainly one of those instances that seems tantilizingly hard to explain away as after-the-fact coincidence or only counting the "hits" and ignoring the "misses". A woman in Selma, CA was found bludgeoned to death in her apartment in 1989. The police tracked her movements, got a suspect description from a person at the bar she was at, released the sketch, etc. The investigation goes nowhere. Grasping at straws her family approaches psychic Kay Rhea who looks at picture of the victim and has a sketch artist friend of hers draw a picture of the fellow she *sees* as being responsible. (Which looks rather different from the one done from the witness description.) The police look at the picture and file it away without taking it very seriously.

The case goes cold. Thirteen years later a new police detective looks at the old case. Re-interviewing people he finds that their eyewitness, from the bar, was quite intoxicated at the time. So the never-before released drawing is put out on California "Crime Stoppers" tips show. Sure enough, someone calls in saying they recognize the fellow in the drawing, who is now living in a different part of the state. The police look into the guy, find his mug shot from an arrest just one month priror to the murder and it's a dead ringer for the psychic's drawing. The cops, looking into the fellow further, are convinced he is the guy. They confront him and he confesses under questioning. The man is now doing time in a California prison for the murder he'd committted all those years earlier. The original detective, the one who re-opened the case and the police chief were all on the program verifying the events.

Obviously it was a little more involved than the shorthand version I've given above, but it really seemed a different order than "I see the letter B; the perpetrator works with his hands; a head injury was involved; etc etc" Ms. Rhea certainly didn't solve the case, but where that drawing came from.....

 

[Jerry_B]

[...]but there is no credible scientific evidence that psychic power ever solved a crime.

One has to ask whether there's been any scientific investigation into this in the first place... It amuses me that such sweeping claims are made, whilst at the same time no actual scientific investigation of the subject has actually occured, AFAIK...

 

[minordrag]

Saw the same program last night, about a different crime. As usual, the reality of the situation is somewhere between "always works" and "never works." For example, some psychics come up with startling accurate information which is only corroborated once the perp is caught/body is found. This may not help actually solving the crime, but is related nonetheless.

I too would like to see a solid scientific study of psychic detectives. Not gonna hold my breath.

 

[Mal_Adjusted]

Despite Popularity, Psychic Detectives Fail to Perform

Greets

Despite Popularity, Psychic Detectives Fail to Perform
By Benjamin Radford
from the Skeptical Inquirer
posted: 04 February 2005
06:48 am ET


Psychic detectives, both "real" and fictional, are currently hot. They have been publicized on Larry King Live and seen in the new hit NBC television show Medium, which recently beat the science-based drama CSI:Miami in the ratings. Yet a close examination of psychic detectives suggests they are better at finding publicity than missing persons.

A common pattern occurs in high-profile missing persons cases (such as Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, Elizabeth Smart, and countless others): dozens or hundreds of "psychics" offer tips (for free or for pay), yet when police follow up on the information, the vast majority of it ––or all of it––turns out to be wrong. One trick psychics use is to give very vague information open to later interpretation (most missing persons are likely to be found "near water," even if it’s a lake, puddle, river, drainage pipe, etc.). They also use information already available through normal means, and make so many different guesses that some will almost certainly be right. Police must follow up on all tips, including those from dubious sources, thus wasting precious hours and police manpower. When bodies are found it is always through accident or police work. Despite repeated claims to the contrary, there is not a single documented case of a missing person being found or recovered due solely to psychic information.

That doesn’t stop them from trying, though. In addition to Chandra Levy and Laci Peterson, psychic information failed to recover Brooke Wilberger, a Brigham Young University student who missing since May 24, 2004. Police said they have received more than 500 tips from alleged psychics. As of this writing her body has not been found. Psychics also failed to recover Lori Kay Hacking, the pregnant Salt Lake City woman missing since July 19, 2004. Her husband eventually directed police to a local landfill, where Hacking’s body was found. The search for Hacking was joined by the parents of Elizabeth Smart, the girl who vanished from her home in 2002. After Smart was kidnapped, nearly a thousand psychics contacted the Smart family and police, offering their visions, information, and evidence. These tips, like all the rest, were investigated and followed up. Not a single piece of evidence from all those psychics led to the girl’s recovery; instead Smart’s abductors were recognized by two alert couples in a Salt Lake City suburb. News reports, quick thinking, and handy telephones rescued Smart, not psychic powers.

Psychic detectives on television will likely have more luck than those in real-life. In February 2004, Court TV launched a new series about supposed real-life psychic detectives called, rather unimaginatively, Psychic Detectives. The series proved so successful that Court TV ordered fifteen additional episodes for its 2005 season.

A crime drama on Lifetime Television, 1-800-Missing, was the most-watched series premiere ever for the female-targeted network, reaching 3.3 million total viewers. The series features a female FBI agent (Vivica A. Fox) who teams up with a young psychic to helps her locate missing people. The series was brought back for the 2005 lineup, retitled simply Missing. The show’s Web site links to several actual missing children organizations, perhaps lending an air of legitimacy to the show.

Not to be outdone, on January 3, NBC launched Medium, its own "chilling drama series inspired by the real-life story of research medium Allison Dubois." (The show begins with the titles, "There really is an Allison… Really.") Patricia Arquette stars as a law student who begins to suspect that she can talk to dead people, read people’s minds, and see the future. With pluck and confidence, she dispels doubts and shows up skeptics including her rocket scientist husband and police investigators. Her abilities are apparently far more impressive than real-life psychic detectives: At one point Dubois leads a group of Texas Rangers to find a missing child’s body. In contrast to the typical vague, post hoc predictions about where the body is, Dubois stands in a field, points to the ground, and says the body is "right here, about three feet down."

The show repeatedly claims to be based on the experiences of a woman named Allison Dubois, who is credited as a "consultant/real-life medium." In fact, according to the show’s NBC Web site, "Dubois has consulted on a variety of murders or missing persons cases while working with various law enforcement agencies including the Glendale Arizona Police Department, the Texas Rangers, and a County Attorney’s Office in the Homicide Bureau."

Unfortunately for Dubois, the Glendale police and the Texas Rangers tell a different story. "The Texas Rangers have never used psychics and have no plans to do so," spokesman Tom Vinger stated flatly. Glendale police spokesman Michael Pena stated that the detective who handles missing persons cases "does not recall using Dubois at all in [one specific] case, or in any other cases." As is often the case, the claims made by psychic detectives wither under a little real detective work.

Benjamin Radford is a writer, managing editor of the Skeptical Inquirer magazine, and Editor Jefe of Pensar, a Spanish-language skeptics magazine.

http://www.livescience.com/othernews/reason_medium_050204.html

mal

 

[lopaka]

I think the above (going on a kinda-OT rant here, and of course I'm NOT referring to you personally, Mal) is such a great example of why I sometimes think they should rename themselves The Committee to Issue Poorly Reasoned Editorals Against the Paranormal CIPREAP anyone?

Psychic detectives, both "real" and fictional, are currently hot. They have been publicized on Larry King Live and seen in the new hit NBC television show Medium, which recently beat the science-based drama CSI:Miami in the ratings. Yet a close examination of psychic detectives suggests they are better at finding publicity than missing persons.

Fair enough, there are a bunch of them on TV right now, so it's a good time to look into the issue. Though you do provide us with your conclusion,
you're prepared to demonstrate it to us.

A common pattern occurs in high-profile missing persons cases (such as Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, Elizabeth Smart, and countless others): dozens or hundreds of "psychics" offer tips (for free or for pay), yet when police follow up on the information, the vast majority of it ––or all of it––turns out to be wrong.

That's part and parcel of a high-profile case. People come forward. A lot of people come forward with not-useful tips or information, but who are trying to be helpful. People come forward to get back at someone or they're simply cranks or they're voluntarily conefssing for who-knows-what-reason. Moths to the flame. It's called a high-profile case. Oh, the "vast majority" of those turn out to be nonsense as well. But not all of them, either.

But then you hedge, is it "the vast majority of it" or "all of it"? That would seem to be an important distinction if you're claiming categorily that a reported phenomena wasn't true.

One trick psychics use is to give very vague information open to later interpretation (most missing persons are likely to be found "near water," even if it’s a lake, puddle, river, drainage pipe, etc.). They also use information already available through normal means, and make so many different guesses that some will almost certainly be right. Police must follow up on all tips, including those from dubious sources, thus wasting precious hours and police manpower.

I'll give you that. The information so general as to be useless as an investigative tool or to applicable to many situations. And some people who say they are pyschic undoubtedly try to couch or rig the the answers they give in their favor.

MOST detective work in an unsolved crime is following up on leads that don't pan out. Even then, detectives are usually pretty good at quickly seperating the wheat from the chaff.

Despite repeated claims to the contrary, there is not a single documented case of a missing person being found or recovered due solely to psychic information.

Unsupported claim. Since this seems to be the entire crux of the article at least one citation of this assertion would be appreciated. Or should the reader take your word for it?

That doesn’t stop them from trying, though. In addition to Chandra Levy and Laci Peterson, psychic information failed to recover Brooke Wilberger, a Brigham Young University student who missing since May 24, 2004. Police said they have received more than 500 tips from alleged psychics. As of this writing her body has not been found. Psychics also failed to recover Lori Kay Hacking, the pregnant Salt Lake City woman missing since July 19, 2004. Her husband eventually directed police to a local landfill, where Hacking’s body was found. The search for Hacking was joined by the parents of Elizabeth Smart, the girl who vanished from her home in 2002. After Smart was kidnapped, nearly a thousand psychics contacted the Smart family and police, offering their visions, information, and evidence. These tips, like all the rest, were investigated and followed up. Not a single piece of evidence from all those psychics led to the girl’s recovery; instead Smart’s abductors were recognized by two alert couples in a Salt Lake City suburb. News reports, quick thinking, and handy telephones rescued Smart, not psychic powers.

Right. We've been through this before. Cases which feature well-off, young, good-looking white women or children get a lot of media attention. A lot of media attention means a lot of people who want to be on TV. In these four cases apparently there were no psychics tips received which helped the investigation. No one has said most or even many cases, let alone high-profile ones, have been helped by a pyschic.

Psychic detectives on television will likely have more luck than those in real-life. In February 2004, Court TV launched a new series about supposed real-life psychic detectives called, rather unimaginatively, Psychic Detectives. The series proved so successful that Court TV ordered fifteen additional episodes for its 2005 season.

Well, despite the smirking tone I see no actual engagement with the series as aired. Are you disputing the specifics of any particular episode? Here is an actual purported-to-be-casebook of psychics and police. What makes it "supposed real-life" except for existing bias on your part? On the other hand, maybe you're about to...

A crime drama on Lifetime Television, 1-800-Missing, was the most-watched series premiere ever for the female-targeted network, reaching 3.3 million total viewers. The series features a female FBI agent (Vivica A. Fox) who teams up with a young psychic to helps her locate missing people. The series was brought back for the 2005 lineup, retitled simply Missing. The show’s Web site links to several actual missing children organizations, perhaps lending an air of legitimacy to the show.

Nope. I guess not. Now we're onto a fictional series about a psychic and missing persons that airs photos of real-life missing children at the end. I'm not sure what the point is. Should they not publicize missing children? The non-paranormal Without A Trace does it, news organizations do it, milk cartons do (did?) it.

Not to be outdone, on January 3, NBC launched Medium, its own "chilling drama series inspired by the real-life story of research medium Allison Dubois." (The show begins with the titles, "There really is an Allison… Really.") Patricia Arquette stars as a law student who begins to suspect that she can talk to dead people, read people’s minds, and see the future. With pluck and confidence, she dispels doubts and shows up skeptics including her rocket scientist husband and police investigators. Her abilities are apparently far more impressive than real-life psychic detectives: At one point Dubois leads a group of Texas Rangers to find a missing child’s body. In contrast to the typical vague, post hoc predictions about where the body is, Dubois stands in a field, points to the ground, and says the body is "right here, about three feet down."

And yet another *review* of a self-avowed fictional drama series whose entire purpose is to entertain, sell ad time, stuff like that, that :shock: shows things and has plots that could never take place in real life. Alert the media!!! What does it have to do with the still undemonstrated thesis that the idea of police psychics is bunk?

The show repeatedly claims to be based on the experiences of a woman named Allison Dubois, who is credited as a "consultant/real-life medium." In fact, according to the show’s NBC Web site, "Dubois has consulted on a variety of murders or missing persons cases while working with various law enforcement agencies including the Glendale Arizona Police Department, the Texas Rangers, and a County Attorney’s Office in the Homicide Bureau."

The shows producers and the network issue press releases that their fictional drama is based on a real person. That's one of the gimmicks to the show. "Based on actual people" can turn out to mean a lot of things, as we all know, certainly, but it's good publicity.

Unfortunately for Dubois, the Glendale police and the Texas Rangers tell a different story. "The Texas Rangers have never used psychics and have no plans to do so," spokesman Tom Vinger stated flatly. Glendale police spokesman Michael Pena stated that the detective who handles missing persons cases "does not recall using Dubois at all in [one specific] case, or in any other cases."

When you phoned them, both law enforcement agencies that the woman cites deny using her. So it's they said/she said. It's true there's reason to think she/the shows producers made it up (because it's Hollywood) and at least some reason to think the Texas Rangers and the Glendale PD would have a motive for not telling the truth (don't want to admit using a psychic). If you choose to believe them rather than her, that's understandable, but it's hardly definitive. Did you call Ms. Dubois or anyone assoiciated with the show to see if they have corraborating evidence that this woman was consulted as she says? If you didn't, you're correct a "little" detective work is the operative term.

As is often the case, the claims made by psychic detectives wither under a little real detective work.

Again, you're waffling. You make sweeping statements about certain things never happening, then conclude by inserting a modifier like "vast majority" or "often". Which is it? Really. Your main position would not seem to be able tolerate exceptions.

Benjamin Radford is a writer, managing editor of the Skeptical Inquirer magazine, and Editor Jefe of Pensar, a Spanish-language skeptics magazine.

Really guys, try harder. This is neither scientific or an investigation. Surely the obvious target to *prove* that psychic police work is all baloney is to examine the one program that presents itself as being non-fiction, Psychic Detectives. Episodes from last season and fifteen more from this one just waiting to be disected. Why did you spend 3 1/2 lines dismissing that show and paragraphs on shows that make NO claim to be factual?

Your willingness attacking the fringes of the reported phenomena but avoid the meat, coupled with your repeatedly proving wiggle room at the end of your arguments suggests you don't have confidence in your position. What gives? I still like CIPREAP.

Grade: C-


[/b]

 

[James_H]

The famous psychic detective Croiset apparently often refused to work on murder cases. He thought that he might "see" an innocent passer-by, and confuse the matter further.
He worked by psychometry. Gerard Croiset Wikipedia[/url]

 

[sunsplash1]

Is it just me or does anyone else groan when you see these words?
"Even as a child, Phil Jordan knew he was different..."

Why do these sorts of accounts always start this way?

We all different in the same way?

 

[Anonymous]

Why do these sorts of accounts always start this way?

I think it's because all kids believe their different, so it's a fairly safe comment to make.

 

[sunsplash1]

Yes of course but it doesn't mean they're psychic, just fairly normal!

 

[Anonymous]

Exactly. But it does mean that it's a safe bet for any journalist to write "As a child, X believed they were special" because, regardless, they would have believed they were special! Most parents believe their kids are special. Doesn't mean they are!

 

[lopaka]

Not that uncommon, but I've been following the very odd case of the missing Pennsylvania prosecutor http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewt ... 495#532495

and it looks like a month in and they're desperate enough to call in a pyschic. Kind of a good little piece, though, on how/when psychics become involved in a specific police investigation:

Thursday, May 12, 2005


Psychic joins Gricar case

Bellefonte police hope woman can spark new leads

By Erin L. Nissley

[email protected]

BELLEFONTE -- Bellefonte police have begun working with a California psychic in hopes of generating new clues in their investigation into the disappearance of District Attorney Ray Gricar nearly one month ago.

Police officer Darrel Zaccagni said Gricar's loved ones brought up the possibility of using a psychic in the investigation during a meeting. He immediately thought of Carla Baron, a former Lock Haven resident who has worked on Ferguson Township's probe into the Nov. 1, 2001, disappearance of Penn State student Hyun Jong "Cindy" Song.

Song's disappearance remains unsolved.

After talking to Ferguson Township police about Baron, Zaccagni took the idea back to Gricar's loved ones. Bellefonte Police Chief Duane Dixon approved the proposal, and Zaccagni called her last week.

Although Zaccagni is skeptical of psychics in general, he said he can't discount them.

"I believe in God, and if I believe in God, I have to believe there are spirits out there," he said. "If you look, more and more police are using psychics."

But Don Zettlemoyer, director of the Justice and Safety Institute at Penn State, said it's pretty uncommon for police to use psychics for investigations.

"They often end up being used when everything else has hit a dead end," he said.

The 10-year veteran of Michigan police work said he knows of no empirical evidence that psychics can help an investigation.

"If it detracts from the time an officer is actually investigating, then it can hurt an investigation," Zettlemoyer said. "But sometimes police departments come under fire for not doing enough investigating. It can display a willingness to pursue every avenue."

Barbara Gray, Gricar's ex-wife and the mother of his daughter, Lara, said she and other family members and friends were interested in using a psychic because police are running out of angles to investigate.

"At this point, we have no clues," Gray said. "We're hoping anything we can learn will be beneficial."

Gricar, 59, was last heard from on April 15, when he called girlfriend and housemate Patty Fornicola about 11:30 a.m. to say he was taking a drive along state Route 192 in the Brush Valley area. Fornicola called police about 11:30 p.m. when Gricar hadn't returned home. The red-and-white Mini Cooper he was driving was found in a parking lot in Lewisburg April 16, police said.

Fornicola declined to comment on Baron's involvement.

Baron has made several TV appearances, including Court TV's "Psychic Detectives," to talk about her involvement in the Song case. She said she plans to do future segments on Gricar's disappearance for "Court TV." She said the family and police are aware of her intentions.

Neither police nor the family are paying Baron for her assistance.

Baron, who became involved with Song's case on the recommendation of Penn State's Paranormal Research Society, uses a process she calls remote profiling to come up with scenes, landmarks, conversations and other details about a case she's working on.

"I'm not here to solve this thing," she said. "I'm here to contribute pieces of the puzzle."

Zaccagni said police are taking the information she provides and "keeping it in the back of our mind" while they continue to investigate the case.

"For example, if she sees a blue barn with a red roof, we're not going to go all over the state looking for it," he said.

So far, Baron said, she's gotten several impressions about Gricar's personality and habits that police have told her are "pretty accurate." She also said she's "seen" someone leaning into a car and having a conversation with Gricar.

Based on what she's "seen," Baron believes Gricar was killed, possibly by someone he'd prosecuted in the past.

"I don't believe he's with us any longer," she said, adding, "I'm not infallible. I hope I'm wrong."

Zaccagni said he still thinks Gricar is "out there somewhere, alive and well" but said foul play is not beyond the scope of possibilities. He does not think Gricar committed suicide, despite the similarities in this case to Gricar's brother's disappearance in Ohio in 1996. Officials there found Roy Gricar's body in a river and determined the cause of death to be suicide by drowning.

"With as much time as we've been in that (Susquehanna) river, we would have found him by now," Zaccagni said. "Every avenue is still open. And if you believe he's no longer with us, you have to look at foul play."

Erin L. Nissley can be reached at 231-4616.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centreda ... 624359.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Quote:Benjamin Radford

Despite repeated claims to the contrary, there is not a single documented case of a missing person being found or recovered due solely to psychic information.

Unsupported claim. Since this seems to be the entire crux of the article at least one citation of this assertion would be appreciated

Surely it is a bit difficult to provide proof of an assertion that no documented cases exist? The way to dispute this would be to provide evidence of such cases which do show a successful recovery.

The Kay Rhea drawing could be such a case, for instance, except it does not involve missing persons.

On the other hand psychics might be expected to get some things right by chance, so it is a difficult proposition to test.

 

[lopaka]

Quote:Benjamin Radford

Despite repeated claims to the contrary, there is not a single documented case of a missing person being found or recovered due solely to psychic information.

Unsupported claim. Since this seems to be the entire crux of the article at least one citation of this assertion would be appreciated

Surely it is a bit difficult to provide proof of an assertion that no documented cases exist? The way to dispute this would be to provide evidence of such cases which do show a successful recovery.

The Kay Rhea drawing could be such a case, for instance, except it does not involve missing persons.

On the other hand psychics might be expected to get some things right by chance, so it is a difficult proposition to test.

Oh, OK, fair enough. I certainly see your point, though I don't think (? maybe i was) that's what I was trying to do (ask them to prove a negative). The point I was trying to make, rather, is that if someone's writing for a group, particularly if they're going to use terms like "Scientific Investigation" in the organization's title, presumably have some reference or citation they can use to back up their assertions. ie "In the dozens of cases we at CISCOP have investigated none of them have been able to stand up to the claims that have been made for them. (1)" <--footnote.

I'm not asking them to refute every claim, but as it reads it's just rhetoric. No different than a proponent stating "Everyone knows psychics help police solve cases. It's happened dozens of times." Why should anyone accept that at face-value, either? As I said, the Court TV show has a thick case file of episodes right there, just waiting to be investigated by CISCOP, and I was treating the essay as a response to the 'evidence' they're challenging, not a request for examples it. But no, no examination or refutation of any of them are provided or cited, they'd rather talk about the credibilty issues that fictional programs have. Umm...

(I hope I don't seem to be going after you, Eburacum45, I'm not. CISCOP does drives me around the bend, however, and as Alexius' has pointed out, these folks tend to use logic not as a tool for illuminating the world but rather use a form of it to provide a bludgeon against those they disagree with. My response was in the spirit of "two can play at that game" more than anything else. )

The other thing I should point out, that while we can all agree that controlled, repeatable experiments are the hallmark of science and the bane of many fortean topics, it doesn't follow that those who, in the name of science, must demand of the new things standards which they'd never dream of applying to the old:

"Despite repeated claims to the contrary, there is not a single documented case of a missing person being found or recovered due solely to psychic information."


Now there's a narrowly constrcuted definition of 'proof'. "Solely"? I'd be curious to know how many longer-lasting (which tend to be the ones psychics are called in on) missing person's cases are ever resolved solely through any one of eyewitnesses, tips, bloodhounds, fingerprints, bank records, phone records, CCTV, DNA or any other traditonal detective method. That's not how missing persons police investigations work, by and large, and if that's where the bar is going to be set by CISCOP, then they'll find there's precious little evidence that any police methods ever work. The way the question is posed does its best to exclude answers that would contradict the asker's hypothesis, which is NOT a hallmark of science, but does tend to be a favorite trick of Organized Skeptics.


Rant, rant, rant. (But again, not directed towards you Eb45) [/i]

 

[MrRING]

Mediums for the Missing

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75340

Ga. Family Turns to Psychics For Help

Reported by Duffie Dixon

A pair of psychics have offered their assistance to the family of a metro Atlanta woman who has been missing for nearly six months.

Sue Ann Ray disappeared in August and while her relatives have said they can now accept the idea that she has been killed, they desperately want to find her body. Family members feel the psychics can help them accomplish that.

Gabbie Chase is one of the psychic investigators the family is using in the search. Chase calls herself a medium for the missing and two months before family members erected a cross for Sue Ann, Chase said she saw the cross in one of her visions.

Chase also said Ray has been speaking to her since her disappearance. "I think she was murdered," said psychic investigator Gabbie Chase. "It was very cold. I think the people invovled have no remorse and i think she's ready for justice to be done."

The psychic investigators have said they have re-traced the steps they think Sue Ann took the day she vanished. The investigators said those steps led them to an area near the home of Sue Ann’s estranged husband, Quinton Ray. Sue Ann’s father said he is somewhat skeptical of the psychics’ findings. "I don’t know know these people but I will try anybody that can help me find my daughter," said Danny Jenkins. "Who it is what they believe in, I don't care if they can find my daughter I’m in."

Chase and her partner would not go into specfics about other details of their investigation but they did say they wanted police to follow up on their feelings.

"Our hope is that someone will listen to what we're saying and be able to look in the specific area we're talking about," said psychic investigator, Laura Moore.

Ray’s husband admits he may be the last person to have seen Sue Ann alive, but he maintains he has done nothing wrong. So far, police have not named a suspect in Ray's disappearance.

 

[rynner2]

Psychics pursue priceless Vivi, the runway runaway
By Nicholas Wapshott in New York
(Filed: 26/02/2006)

Psychics have been brought in to help with the search for a pedigree prize-winning whippet that made a dramatic bid for freedom at New York's John F Kennedy airport and then comfortably outran its pursuers.

The bitch, whose full name is Champion Bohem C'est La Vie, but normally answers to Vivi, had just won second place in the whippet section at the Westminster Dog Show, America's equivalent of Crufts, at Madison Square Garden when it gave handlers the slip while boarding an aircraft bound for California.

In a response that could have graced the script of Christopher Guest's Best in Show, a spoof documentary about potty dog breeders whose charges were competing at Westminster, Paul Lepiane, Vivi's joint owner, has brought in a dozen canine mediums to try to divine where Vivi might be.

Four agreed the dog was inside a building, an insight which Mr Lepiane described as "a huge breakthrough". Beatrice Lydecker, of Portland, Oregon, assisting in the search, said she believed that Vivi could see yellow machinery and was hiding under folded boxes.

"She said Vivi could hear a person calling to her, but she didn't recognise the voice," said Honi Reisman, a friend of the owners. "They are telling us that she is alive and they are telling us she is warm. They are saying she's in a building, but there are hundreds of buildings." The dog's co-owner Jill Walton, 39, from Los Angeles, was distraught, fearing that Vivi might have drowned in the marshes near the runway.

"I was on the plane waiting with my little tag to tell me she was on too, then they pulled me off and told me Vivi was lost," she said. "Somehow she got out of her kennel.

"She's a skinny little thing and I don't know if she'll make it, that's what's killing me. She sleeps in my bed at night. She's priceless." The airport police gave chase and were soon joined by a New York Police Department helicopter. Airport workers pursued Vivi in a truck for three miles.

The animal is thought to have reached speeds of 25mph. Miss Walton was driven around the area using a loudspeaker to shout "Vivi" but to no avail.

Bobbi Giordano, who runs the airport dog shelter, said dozens of pets escaped while in transit at JFK airport. "We feel terrible about this show dog. But lost dogs are nothing new to us here."

http://tinyurl.com/je3n5

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Psychics

There have been more than enough remarkable hits by psychics aiding the police in their invesiigations that only two scenarios seem possible:

1. Some individuals are genuinely psychic, and here is the proof; or,

2. Some individuals who believe themselves to be psychic, and thus able to assist in police inquiries, in actuality should have become police detectives themselves, because they possess that special "cop's sense" in solving crimes.

But wait a minute, mightn't that "cop's sense" in itself be psychic?

 

[OldTimeRadio]

"Despite repeated claims to the contrary, there is not a single documented case of a missing person being found or recovered due solely to psychic information."

SKEPTICAL INQUIRER is doubtless correct in this assertion. But isn't that because almost NO CRIME is EVER solved by one strand of information alone?

In fact if I ever do come across a case (missing person or other) solved "solely [by] psychic information" my first reaction is going to be "what LOUSY police work."

 

[Leaferne]

Re: Psychics

But wait a minute, mightn't that "cop's sense" in itself be psychic?

Which also raises the question, where do experience and intuition end, and genuine paranormality begin?

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Re: Psychics

"Which also raises the question, where do experience and intuition end, and genuine paranormality begin?"

I'm not sure there's a difference between "intuition" and "psychic ability." In fact there seem to be a growing number of psychics calling themselves "intuitives."

Isn't it possible that a certain amount pf psychic ability is what differentialtes great cops from merely competant ones and that this same thing might be extended to surgeons, plumbers, electricians, butchers, bakers, librarians and so on?

 

[MrRING]

Another Interesting Article

Here’s an interesting story found via AltReligion: A many went missing in Georgia. His car was found, and police made a thorough search of the area, but found nothing. The man’s family then found a “psychic detective” online named Lynn Ann Maker. After touching an article of the missing man’s clothes, she began to have images of where he was - a process called psychometry. One article about the incident says:

Lynn says, she kept feeling that Wallace was submerged in water,”I saw trees, but I was looking up, and to me I was trying to make sense of it. What it was, he was submerged in water, and he was under the water looking out at the trees, and I was him, you know, in his body.”

Lynn ended up going back to the original location where his car was found. There was a pond nearby, which the police had previously searched and come up empty-handed. Another article about her explains what happened after she waded into the pond:

“I walked four or five steps and in front of me I saw something come out of the water,” she said. “It was the top of his head. I didn’t know for sure it was him.

“After his neck came out of the water, he turned,” she said. “I could see it was him and I called 911.”

For whatever reason, police have decided that she merely found the body through luck, and not through psychic perception. Another article on the topic says of this mystery that “noone can explain why or how.” Are these people daft? How much more obvious could it be? She’s psychic!

It’s like if I tell you, “I think I’m gonna go buy a pair of shoes today,” then I go buy some shoes - it’s not fucking attributable to “luck.” And it’s not some humongous accidental coincidental mystery: “Oh my god! How did he get those shoes?!”

I guess this really upsets some people’s worldviews, but the fact is that this shit happens all the time. Remember the woman who located a missing girl in Washington last October because she had a dream about it? These are not isolated incidents. There are thousands of these on record, and probably thousands more off.

Psychologist Marie Louise Von Franz mentions something similar to this in a book of hers I’m re-reading: On Divination and Synchronicity. She talks about how mathematical (especially statistical) theories often focus on creating a usable theory which works in general to describe a phenomenon. By doing this, they will tend to gloss over the individual case - even when it doesn’t fit the theory. She references a researcher at Duke University some years ago who evidently was one of the many who tries to prove parapsychological/paranormal phenomena using standard science:

[…] He was foolish enough to believe that if he wanted to sell parapsychological phenomena to the scientific world then he must prove them statistically or with the concept of probability and - what a fool - he ended up by that in enemy territory. He should have stayed on his own territory. He tries to prove with the very means which eliminates the single case, something which is only valid in the single case,

It’s an interesting way to explain why so many studies that try to “prove” paranormal stuff scientifically fail (although, a great many admittedly succeed).

Going back to the news articles though, it’s very funny how the other conclusion they all seem to draw readily is that the whole thing was a “coincidence.” Coincidence is just about the shittiest fall-back explanation in the world, and yet everybody trots it out ad nauseum. It really drives me batty. It makes me wonder just how hard it is for people to accept that psychic phenomena are just a part of life. I guess the real issue is though, that for most people in order for them to do that, they’d basically have to go back in and re-engineer years and years of patterning and cultural conditioning, and a bunch of other running programs would necessarily be altered as a consequence. Faced with this enormous workload for such a small payoff, it must be just easier to write it off as luck or coincidence, and go about your business.

THIS SKEPTIC article could only put a solution as chance:

Psychic finds body; dumb luck say police

If a psychic finds a missing person, does that prove she's psychic? No, according to police in Ashburn, Georgia. Lynn Ann Maker, 33, is a self-described psychic detective and wannabe private investigator. She was contacted by the missing man's family and found his body in a nearby lake. According to the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer, Maker says she was "pulled" to the lake by a feeling. Police say it was luck that she found the body. Maybe they're both wrong. Maker might just be a better detective than the folks working for the local police department.

The case involves a 30-year-old man, Greg Wallace, who was driving to work on March 14, 2005, but never arrived. A few days later, his abandoned car was found near the lake "parked off a highway with the hood up and the keys in the ignition." The family must have called in the psychic early in the investigation because she made the 150 mile trip from her home south of Atlanta and found the body just five days after Wallace went missing.

Maker says she felt Wallace was near the car. No psychic ability needed for that surmise. She says she felt him submerged, but we don't know whether the memory of this feeling came to her after she saw the body in the water or before. An autopsy didn't reveal the cause of death and apparently Maker didn't hazard a guess on that subject.

Doug Hester, 68, a retired deputy sheriff, said, "I think she was just lucky."

Maker said she's been sensitive to things beyond the normal range of perception since childhood and that God led her there. She didn't say whether it was God who led Wallace to the lake.

 

[rynner2]

Can psychics help to solve crime?
By Hannah Barnes
Donal MacIntyre show, BBC Radio 5 live

"Quite often the victim in the spirit world will come to me and they often lead you to the name or the person involved in their murder."

Joe Power is a psychic medium who has worked with several UK forces trying to solve tough cases.

When asked if he has helped the police solve murders, there is no hesitation: "without a shadow of a doubt," he says.

When the BBC approached the Metropolitan and Merseyside Police forces they were vague about any dealings with Joe. Merseyside said they could not confirm or deny that they had followed up on his information, or that they had actively contacted him

A spokesperson for the Met said: "We welcome any information from people who feel they are able to assist.

"We are unaware of any inquiries significantly progressed solely by information provided by a psychic medium."

The BBC has approached a number of police forces after speaking to psychics who claim that their information has been acted upon. The vast majority are ambiguous in their response.

But there is no denying that some individual officers are pursuing leads that have arisen from someone professing to have paranormal powers.

Earlier this month it emerged that Dyfed Powys Police had spent £20,000 following a line of investigation in a murder inquiry, based on information passed on by a medium.

The Welsh force was widely criticised for wasting taxpayers' money.
Joe Power says that he was contacted by the Metropolitan Police, asking for assistance on a very high profile murder investigation.

"I got an e-mail from the Met police asking for assistance," Joe Power insists.

"I gave them some information that was coming through the murder victim and people on the other side. Without a doubt they followed up on it."

In an initial statement, the Metropolitan Police denied Joe had any involvement in the case.

However, the Donal MacIntyre programme has seen an e-mail which Mr Power claims was sent to his partner by an officer working on the case.

The officer writes, "can Joe or the victim assist with any landmarks that would assist in narrowing the search down?"

Joe is also asked "what sort of vehicle does the killer use, is it a car or a bike? Can the victim be more specific to Joe as to what happened at 2.10?"

When approached for a second time about Joe Power's involvement with the case, the Metropolitan Police issued a new statement, authorised by the senior investigating officer.

It said: "We do not identify people we may or may not speak with in connection with enquiries. We are not prepared to discuss this further."

This reluctance to be open is something Keith Charles can relate to.

A former Scotland Yard man who now practices as a medium, he says: "I think the police are sceptical, but they have a right to be so because some mediums and psychics make false claims."

"But, ultimately officers don't mind where the evidence comes from as long as it proves or disproves the case."

And it is not just within policing that the UK shies away from any mention of involvement with the paranormal.

In 2007 the Ministry of Defence was forced to admit that it had spent £18,000 carrying out secret tests to find out whether psychic powers could be used to detect hidden objects.

The US military has experimented on a much larger scale with their Stargate Project, which investigated whether 'remote viewing' - the ability to psychically 'see' people and objects from great distances - could be used for potential military purposes.

Some believers have even gone as far to say that US authorities deployed the technique to search for Osama Bin Laden.

But for psychic mediums in the UK, the willingness of police officers to use their information, but not publicly acknowledge them, can be frustrating.

Angela McGhee has also contributed information towards an active murder inquiry.

West Midlands Police told the BBC that "officers interviewed Angela McGhee as we would anyone offering information about any offence.

"But she did not have any evidence that was not already known to the investigative team."

Angela rejects the notion she was visited purely out of courtesy: "They said you're telling us things that only people involved would have known; you've told us forensic details."

While police forces across the UK refuse to either confirm or deny their use of psychics in major investigations, it is difficult to gauge how widespread the practice is.

But Joe Power is in no doubt that he and others will continue to play a role in solving crime:

"I predict that in the next 30 to 40 years you will actually get people like me who will find bodies, where there's no question about it.

"The psychic world is moving on very fast and it's getting more accurate with the information all the time."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8369369.stm

You can hear the full report on the Donal MacIntyre programme on 5 live on Sunday, 22 November 2009 at 1930 GMT

 

[Zilch5]

An odd story in the news here today - it sort of fits this thread:

Psychic searching for missing girl discovers woman's torso

A self-professed psychic looking for missing Sydney girl Kiesha Abrahams visited a reserve in Doonside and discovered the torso of a woman.

Police revealed today that the psychic, a local woman whose name was not released, went to Nurragingy Reserve at Knox Road last night because she had a "hunch" that the missing six-year-old girl’s body might be there.

But Chief Inspector Pam Young, of the NSW Homicide Squad, said the psychic, who was joined by another person, had instead come across a torso (missing the head, arms and legs) wrapped in plastic on a creek bank.

"It’s quite interesting that a woman had a sense or a feeling that it was worth her while to come to this particular part of the park."

When asked if the psychic thought she would find evidence in relation to the case of Kiesha Abrahams, Chief Inspector Young said: "There was a thought in her mind apparently that her coming here might help that particular case. [They are] quite unusual circumstances that have brought us here initially and then [to] actually find a body ... but it’s certainly not a little child."

Maybe nothing more than a weird coincidence. Still odd though.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/psychic-searc ... utostart=1

 

[MsQkxyz]

An odd story in the news here today - it sort of fits this thread:

Psychic searching for missing girl discovers woman's torso

A self-professed psychic looking for missing Sydney girl Kiesha Abrahams visited a reserve in Doonside and discovered the torso of a woman.

Police revealed today that the psychic, a local woman whose name was not released, went to Nurragingy Reserve at Knox Road last night because she had a "hunch" that the missing six-year-old girl’s body might be there.

But Chief Inspector Pam Young, of the NSW Homicide Squad, said the psychic, who was joined by another person, had instead come across a torso (missing the head, arms and legs) wrapped in plastic on a creek bank.

"It’s quite interesting that a woman had a sense or a feeling that it was worth her while to come to this particular part of the park."

When asked if the psychic thought she would find evidence in relation to the case of Kiesha Abrahams, Chief Inspector Young said: "There was a thought in her mind apparently that her coming here might help that particular case. [They are] quite unusual circumstances that have brought us here initially and then [to] actually find a body ... but it’s certainly not a little child."

Maybe nothing more than a weird coincidence. Still odd though.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/psychic-searc ... utostart=1

I was about to post this.
For what its worth, it doesnt surprise me about the psychic. Ive had a horrible feeling for the last week that a body was going to turn up in Doonside. Not this woman specifically and I certainly couldnt pin point the exact spot though fairly close. I dont know if I felt that way just because its such a shitty yobby area and it was a lucky guess, or whether its possible to somehow "tap into the energy" sometimes. The woman was a friend of someone I know & Im often in the area where she was found, can that relate? I wonder if there are others out there who had the same sort of gut feeling?
It makes me feel so sick, especially now having read its not even the whole body.

 

[Zilch5]

I heard on the news this morning that the woman who found the body was an "Aboriginal Elder" - any truth to that?

 

[MsQkxyz]

I dont know Zilch. If I am able to confirm at a later date I will, but its not a good time to ask obviously.

 

[escargot]

Could be an intelligent guess.

Years ago, when a small girl was missing in Chester, I was chatting to a detective I knew slightly and the subject of her disappearance came up. I remarked that she'd soon be found floating in the River Dee, and sadly she was, within a couple of days. :shock:

I felt a bit worried in case it made me look like a suspect!

Nothing psychic or especially intuitive, though. The river runs right through the city and is an obvious place to dump a body. The murderer might imagine that although it will probably resurface, the action of the water would have washed away any evidence.