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Reversing PIN Numbers

H

HelzAngel

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
171
Has anybody else heard of this one:

If you should ever be forced by a robber to withdraw money from an ATM machine, you can notify the police by entering your Pin # in reverse.

>For example if your pin number is 1234 then you would put in 4321. The ATM recognizes that your pin number is backwards from the ATM card you placed in the machine. The machine will still give you the money you requested, but unknown to the robber, the police will be immediately dispatched to help you.

This information was recently broadcasted on TV and it states that it is seldom used because people don't know it exists.
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I've read about this some where in the last couple of days. Think it was snopes, I'll have a quick check to see if I can find it.
 
...which answers my question. Shame it's rubbish, really, as it would be nice to have a palindromic PIN and guarantee a police escort whenever I was carrying money.

It's annoying, though, that you get this kind of crap:
This information was recently broadcasted on TV and it states that it is seldom used because people don't know it exists.
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which makes a false claim seem almost credible.
 
I hate to say it but the bit about the Police being immediately dispatched to help you is a big clue to it being fake.
 
I hate to say it but the bit about the Police being immediately dispatched to help you is a big clue to it being fake.[/quote

Yeah thats a sure sign alright, i used to work in a shop in the centre of town and only about 500m from the police station. Whilst being robbed at knife point one night several people were able to ring the police while this was going on and yet it took the cops 20 mins to make it to the shop. The attack lasted about 3 to 4 mins as well.
To make it even more laughable the looney who robbed us walked straight by the shop an hour later bold as brass off to spend his ill gotten gains in the pub (I followed from a distance to find out where he was going). To add insult to injury on contacting the cops again it took them another 10mins for them to come back and arrest the guy. :roll:
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I have to say that was the bit that caught my eye as well. I just don´t think anyone would sit and monitor these things, ready to send out someone for a mugging like that. If it was a murder, they might pop round a few hours later.
 
If I read Snopes correctly the system is workable and has actually been patented - but nobody in the banking community is interested.
 
whilst reading this I wondered what my pin number would be backwards, I tried to think what it is normally and have now had a total mind blank. I hope it returns by the time I get to the bank
 
OldTimeRadio said:
If I read Snopes correctly the system is workable and has actually been patented - but nobody in the banking community is interested.
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I don't see how this would work, as mentioned in an earlier post, what if you PIN was 1221 or any other palindromic number?
 
zoltan_g said:
OldTimeRadio said:
If I read Snopes correctly the system is workable and has actually been patented - but nobody in the banking community is interested.
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I don't see how this would work, as mentioned in an earlier post, what if you PIN was 1221 or any other palindromic number?
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Snopes suggested a that work-around for palindromic PINs had been thought of - I imagine that this would mean typing 2112 instead of 1221.

What I want to know is - what's the secret PIN for free money? Don't tell me that's an urban legend, too? Bugger!

...and thanks for not calling them PIN numbers!
 
Another method would be to simply not use palindromic numbers.

This doesn't put any crimp into the availibility of PINs, since millions of individuals share the same PINS anyway.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Another method would be to simply not use palindromic numbers.

This doesn't put any crimp into the availibility of PINs, since millions of individuals share the same PINS anyway.
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Or just simply add a '"SCREAM! I'M BEING ROBBED!' option to one of the menus' (is that the right use of and apostrophy?). Which then makes the cashpoint (ATM) scream "I'M BEING ROBBED!" - sealing all the 'holes in the wall' and triggering a 'raft' (collective term) of digital cameras and flashes to 'fire off'"!

Sure. You'll be dead.

But "he'll" (oh, that's sexist) might think twice about doing it again!
 
Seriously.

A system could be put in place whereby you type in your PERSONAL PIN NUMBER and then just press "#999" - or some such for help. (Sorry Peri).
 
Frobush said:
Or just simply add a '"SCREAM! I'M BEING ROBBED!' option to one of the menus' (is that the right use of and apostrophy?). Which then makes the cashpoint (ATM) scream "I'M BEING ROBBED!" - sealing all the 'holes in the wall' and triggering a 'raft' (collective term) of digital cameras and flashes to 'fire off'" Sure. You'll be dead.
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I think you miss the point. The way the system would work, were it actually operational, is that on being accosted by a robber demanding cash from an ATM I'd enter, say. 9061 rather than my "real" numbner of, say, 1609.

The ATM gives me the money I requested, without even cracking a smile. I hand the money to the miscreant at my side.

But the police have been notified, without so much as a whisper to the robber, that a crime is going down at that location. Even if the thug shoots me or stabs me, trained medical help is on the way.

As Snopes reports, the systedm has been perfected and even patented, simply not used!
 
apostrophe

Frobush - you don't need an apostrophe there

let's face it, the PIN reversal would never work
 
Re: apostrophe

placeholder said:
Frobush - you don't need an apostrophe there

Let's face it, the PIN reversal would never work
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It think that if you were' (apostrophe for no reason) to implement this - and I'm assuming there's an awful lot of people out there who have to stop and 'think' for a second or two about what their PIN number is before typing it in - that it would be easier if you just held down the # 'hash' or * 'star' button whilst entering your own number (not the reverse of it - have you ever tried doing this? Just to test?) to trigger the <silent> 'alarm' it may just work.

Much better to carry a gun around with you and have done with it! (I am joking!) Grrrrrr!
 
At the bank I use, staff have a code to enter the building before work and after hours. If they are being held up they make a change to the code and this triggers the silent alarm. They don't use the reverse PIN though.
 
Re: apostrophe

placeholder said:
let's face it, the PIN reversal would never work
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You may well be right, but would you care to explain why you are so certain?
 
Re: apostrophe

Frobush it would be easier if you just held down the # 'hash' or * 'star' button whilst entering your own number (not the reverse of it - have you ever tried doing this? Just to test?) to trigger the <silent> 'alarm' it may just work.
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But then muggers would simply take to entering the PIN number themselves rather than allowing their victims to do so.
 
sorry i was going to elaborate but was trying to get out of work!

putting together all of the issues that other nice people have raised on the thread we can see that application of the idea is fraught with problems, let's play out the scenario...

you're attacked, presumably with a weapon (oh these dark days) and frogmarched to the cashmachine.
can you remember your PIN?
If you can remember are you able to reverse it under extreme stress?
if you can, does the attacker notice a delay and say "damn, s/he is reversing their PIN..."

their choices are to wait and try to make off with the money before the police arrive or become violent or simply run away.

even if the reversal summons the police what are the chances that they will arrive in time to stop the attacker taking your money in the first instance, beating you to a pulp/stabbing you/shooting you in the second instance or even apprehending him in the third instance?

maybe i seem cynical? here's why...

Lil Sis was robbed in her workplace at knifepoint. when the thieves were gone she firstly couldn't remember what number to dial in an emergency and seondly couldn't get the phone working as she had forgotten that the phone had been pulled out of the wall at the start of the robbery.
she and her manager had set off all the panic buttons as soon as the guys had walked into the bookies but geniuses in the security centre 50 odd miles away decided they were all false alarms and didn't contact the police. when they did contact the police (after my sister phoned them) they contacted the station in the next town 11 miles away. Lil Sis rang the local Gardaí about 5-10 mins after the robbery and a female officer arrived on foot and panting 35 minutes after the robbery ended explaining that both the police cars were in the garage.

Phew! lunchtime, those italics wore me out.

(PS i do like Frobush's idea of holding down a button while entering the PIN, it's not something you normally do so you probably won't do it accidentally, but all the other provisos stand)
 
Re: apostrophe

graylien said:
But then muggers would simply take to entering the PIN number themselves rather than allowing their victims to do so.
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But the only way the mugger can get that number is from me. So if I correctly tell him that my number is, say, 3042, he's going to think I've reversed it on him, and so he's going to enter 2403, which will give him the money....but also notify the police.

And I'd assume that no self-respecting mugger wants to be forced into playing logic games on the street.
 
placeholder said:
even if the reversal summons the police what are the chances that they will arrive in time to stop the attacker taking your money in the first instance, beating you to a pulp/stabbing you/shooting you in the second instance or even apprehending him in the third instance?
Click to expand...

My own experience with the local cops here is that while they might take their own sweet time in investigating crimes which are already history, they are extremely alert in getting to crimes in progress.

Even when they can't prevent the crime they're still much more likely than not to apprend the miscreant within minutes and still in that immediate neighborhood. And that's whether the thug is on foot or in an automobile.
 
In some places there is a camera filming the person using the ATM machine. For that reason the robber might not want to put in the pin himself.
I can think of many ways you could make an alarm, showing you are being robbed. The problem would just be in getting someone to react to that alarm.
 
Old Time Radio wrote:
graylien wrote:
But then muggers would simply take to entering the PIN number themselves rather than allowing their victims to do so.


But the only way the mugger can get that number is from me. So if I correctly tell him that my number is, say, 3042, he's going to think I've reversed it on him, and so he's going to enter 2403, which will give him the money....but also notify the police.

And I'd assume that no self-respecting mugger wants to be forced into playing logic games on the street.
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Unless they're Sicilian, in which case you just give them a goblet of wine laced with Iocaine Powder.

And remember, never get involved in a land war in Asia!
 
Xanatico said:
In some places there is a camera filming the person using the ATM machine. For that reason the robber might not want to put in the pin himself.
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Perhaps a wide(r)-angle lens could be used to show anyone within 10 - 20 feet
.
Augmernted by a second camera across the street from the ATM.
 
Yes because more surveillance is really what is needed in today´s world.
 
And remember, never get involved in a land war in Asia!
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Go on Dougal, you forgot your maniacal laugh!



(edited cos i'm awful silly :oops: )
 
Xanatico said:
Yes because more surveillance is really what is needed in today´s world.
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The government has absolutely no right whatsoever to enter our homes or living spaces without strong evidence of a felony being committed or planned there coupled with a specific, written court authorization, nor to entertain interest in what we do there.

But the public streets are another matter. That's why we call them public.

Security cameras on the public streets are no more intrusive than fitting a myopic cop with eyeglasses.
 
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