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Besides, I assume that a wide-angle video camera mounted across the street from an ATM would be privately placed there and monitored by the bank/banking system, for the protection of its customers (and for the protection of its own property as well), and NOT by the Municipality nor by the State.
 
But in the UK, there are concerns that we are already being watched far too much already by CCTV cameras.
From the Beeb:
There are up to 4.2m CCTV cameras in Britain - about one for every 14 people - making it one of the most watched places on earth.
.....
Now there are an estimated four million cameras in the country, viewing us as many as 300 times a day.
 
But how do these cameras, mounted outside on the public streets differ from a beat cop or a civilian neighborhood volunteer being physically stationed there?

And does that total number of CCTVs in Britain include all those in schools, factories, hospitals and so on? In most countries the largest percentage of CCTVs are located in manufacturing plants, to see where the human eye simply cannot, such as inside milling and cutting machines..
 
Let me phrase that a little differently -

If I have the right to stand on the corner of Fifth and Vine and watch the traffic and the pedestrians pass, so does a cop.

And there seems no problem with having a camera there in place of the cop.

That's a lot cheaper than hiring a cop for every streetcorner.

It's purse snatchers the camera's looking for and NOT purse carriers.
 
I don't honestly know the answer to your question about where the CCTV cameras are that make up that figure. I posted it mainly to try to demonstrate why, in the UK at least, people would probably feel uneasy about having even more cameras monitoring them, and so it would perhaps not be a terribly favourable way of improving safety and security at cash machines.

As for the cameras vs policemen, I think that people would feel more inclined to be watched over by a copper - a real live human being in a position of trust, rather than a machine (or system of machines) that could be recording every single move you make. People (even the beloved beat bobby) do not take in and retain all the information, whereas cameras and whatever they're linked to could.
The camera itself cannot distinguish between the actions of an innocent passer by and a violent robber. A policeman (or any other human) probably can, at least to a certain extent, and I imagine would focus their attention on the more suspicious characters and ignore the average person. In other words, humans are more discriminating in the information they process and retain, and so are likely to be seen as less threatening than an indiscriminate machine.
Many people (apart from those strange creatures who participate in reality TV programmes like Big Brother) do not feel comfortable with the notion of being permanently monitored by machines, for whatever reason.
Added to which, I suspect that having PC Plod observing the cash machine would deter a mugger far more than a few cameras would!
 
What is happening, I think, is that we are coming closer and closer to actually recording time itself.

It wouldn't surprise me very much if in another century or two (at most) we actually record days in their entirety - at least outside (I should hope!) of peoples' private domiciles - and store them away for reference purposes like we today do old newspapers.
 
Recording time itself? Like some kind of flow of light with mechanical clocks and dinosaurs in it like those old Sci-fi shows?
 
Xanatico said:
Recording time itself? Like some kind of flow of light with mechanical clocks and dinosaurs in it like those old Sci-fi shows?

I don't have a clue as to how this would/could/will work.

That's like asking somebody in 1700 or 1800 AD to explain how radio will work.

But by 1800 there must have been individuals who realized that the world would "someday" be in instantaneous contact. It was in fact only another 50 years until the major cities of the Eastern United States were connected by a telegraph network and by 1857 those cities were in contact with London via Mr. Henry Field's Atlantic Cable.
 
Looks like the UL's got so popular that West Yorkshire Police have issued a press release about it:

Students in Bradford are being warned not to believe an electronic ‘urban myth’ that advises them how to alert the police during a cashpoint robbery.

The claim, circulated recently by email and on internet message boards around the world, states that new technology means cashpoint users who are being forced to draw out money can automatically alert the police by typing in their PIN number in reverse. It claims the machine will still give them the money while the police are silently alerted and sent to their aid.

Bradford South’s Crime Reduction Unit has received a number of calls from local students asking if the advice is correct.

Crime Reduction Officer, PC Richard Walton said: “This is just simply not true. There is no such technology currently in use at cashpoints in Bradford or anywhere else in the UK. The machines are not linked to the police. Reversing your PIN number will not alert the police and the machine will not dispense cash. It will just tell you the PIN is incorrect and ask you to re-enter it.
 
Amazing. It obviously can't work (as discussed posts passim). I mean my personal PIN number (you see what I did there?) is 1221.

Oh damn!

I've gone and done it again!

My idea of holding down an 'emergency shift key' whilst entering you PIN (easy to do by masking your typing hand with the other) sounds like the best option.

Still no takers though.
 
Frobush said:
you see what I did there?
Yes - you missed out the word "identification". You're slacking.

Why (assuming that the world needs a cashpoint "panic button") don't they just fix it so that hitting "0" before your PIN alerts the authorities whilst still dispensing cash? I'm not aware that any PIN ever begins with a zero.
 
I'll take your emergency shift key or your emergency 0-first alarm (although many robbers might notice the extra hand and/or extra digit in the PIN) but what would be the point? Even a copper standing inside the bank at that very moment wouldn't get there in time to stop aforementioned robber legging it round the corner and away with your dosh.

If I was a robber I'd like to think I'd notice the extra button press and still have your wad of notes and my unblemished criminal record by running like buggery.
 
Why (assuming that the world needs a cashpoint "panic button") don't they just fix it so that hitting "0" before your PIN alerts the authorities whilst still dispensing cash? I'm not aware that any PIN ever begins with a zero.

Mine does :)
 
Frobush said:
Amazing. It obviously can't work (as discussed posts passim).

But there is nothing unworkable about the idea. It's simply not used. That's quite a difference!

Snopes says:

Such a system was....patented in 1998 by Joseph Zingher, a Chicago businessman. His SafetyPin System would alert police that a crime was in progress when a cardholder at an ATM keyed in the reverse of his personal identification numbers....Zingher's system included work-arounds for [palindromic] numeric combinations.
 
lemonpie3 said:
[W]hat would be the point? Even a copper standing inside the bank at that very moment wouldn't get there in time to stop aforementioned robber legging it round the corner and away with your dosh.

Police rarely catch criminals of this type right in the act. But if they are notified soon enough, as the SafetyPin System would certainly do, they stand a very good chance of apprehending the thug still in the neighborhood.
 
It would work just not as expected. The reverse PIN could be used to alert the police, train CCTV on the ATM (we have shit loads of CCTV in the UK, let make use of them), lock the bank door if the ATM is inside, cause an ATM failure at the bank (suddenly none of them dispense cash).

Just thoughts.
 
lupinwick said:
Why (assuming that the world needs a cashpoint "panic button") don't they just fix it so that hitting "0" before your PIN alerts the authorities whilst still dispensing cash? I'm not aware that any PIN ever begins with a zero.
Mine does.
There's always one awkward bugger, isn't there?
 
Awkward bugger number two raises hand.

Why not just fit a Panic button?
 
because the mugger would freak and kill you and the police would arrive 45 minutes later to accidentally destroy all the forensic evidence and then your disgruntled ghost would haunt the spot breathing down people's necks as they try to take out a couple of bob to pay the grocer. and who wants a haunted ATM?

just to take us back along the train of thought a little bit - how often does a mugger attempt to force people to withdraw cash from an ATM? It can't be anywhere near as often as they just nab a person in the street and take what ever money, etc. they have on them.
 
Moooksta said:
Awkward bugger number two raises hand.

Why not just fit a Panic button?

Because the perp's going to SEE you using it, with perhaps all sorts of nasty results.
 
placeholder said:
and who wants a haunted ATM?

What? Aren't they all?

how often does a mugger attempt to force people to withdraw cash from an ATM?

It happens a LOT in these parts, pardner. It's even happened to a city councilman.
 
thankfully it's taking a while to catch on in Dublin's fair city, maybe because beggars have all the city centre ATMs staked out. or maybe even muggers want to feel safe using the "drink link".

if it's a frequent problem there must be methods for dealing with it that are less fraught with complications and peril than reversing your PIN
 
placeholder said:
if it's a frequent problem there must be methods for dealing with it that are less fraught with complications and peril than reversing your PIN

I'm sorry, but what's complicated and perilous about entering "6207" instead of "7026"? All you have to do is to carry the reverse number in ready memory, but that shouldn't be difficult for the average person.

The perp's going to get his money and be none the wiser that the cops are approaching.
 
sorry OTR, the reversal isn't too hard (well some have said it might be a bit tricky for them!) it's the chain of events that has to follow and all the hitches you have to hope won't happen. i'll only be reiterating what i said in previous posts if i get into it now.
 
The cynic in me has started to wonder if such a system might be open to abuse.

Imagine the scenario - I'm in town late on a Saturday night, and although I can't really afford it, I draw out £100 to fund my weekend's excesses. What's to stop me from entering my PIN backwards, and then making up a tale of woe to the bank when they open on Monday: "There were these two huge guys waiting across the road who made me get cash for them, and I didn't tell the police because the guys said they knew where I lived".

Mind you, if you're that way inclined, you could claim that anyway, even without reversing your PIN. It's just that, by invoking this proposed security system, you would instantly give your story credibility: "Honest - I reversed my PIN and everything!"
 
In my experience you need a crime reference number for stuff like that. So you'd report it to the police, who may then investigate. Could be a bit risky.
 
Most systems of this type are open to abuse, but we don't give them up solely because of that.

And I don't believe there's a bank in the Western World that would pay much attention to such a reported ATM theft if no official police report was filed. That's PRIMARY.
 
with my luck with ATMs, a reversed PIN would result in the machine confiscating my card! :evil:
 
Two weeks ago ATMs began informing me that my card was non-system (and this from my own bank's machines!), that my PIN was incorrect, and (the few times I could get in) that all my cash had been withdrawn.

Quick, Ma, the antacids!
 
Forgive me for asking (I look too much like a mugger to get mugged)...this "thug" when he's marched me to the ATM, he's peering closely at my fingers while I press the buttons. Thus he sees me press the panic button.

Why would the panic button be on the keypad? Why not put it on the metal bit underneath. This "thug" is gonna keep an eye on the keypad and the metal rim?

If I press the buttons on the keypad will he see me press a panic button?

Like I say never been mugged or indeed marched to an ATM.

mooks out
 
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