Roswell solved

[ihatethatmonkee3]

definitely too smooth to have "crashed" and broken off from a meteorite, and the actual carving is too intact for it to have been formed by the sands it was found in.

i'm gonna go out and say fake. if it were found in 2004, why wait so long before showing everyone, especially seeing as there's no mention of tests being done by anyone other than someone "with powers".

 

[Analis]

A new take on Roswell by Brad SPARKS:

htpp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdNFu58PIOk

His idea is that while no flying saucer nor alien bodies were recovered, it was a UFO event. But what was retrieved was uncanny debris, no clear conclusion could be inferred from them. An event similar to Ubatuba, Bogota, Councill Bluff cases (and maybe the contemporraneous Maury Island). He told elsewhere that other, terrestrial, events could be involved in the origin of the legend (notably of the claims of bodies). But the recovery of the debris was what prompted the Blanchard statement that a flying saucer was in possession of the Roswell staff. What is interesting, is that Sparks' study of the NYU reports definitely rules out a Mogul balloon.

 

[eburacum]

Good; so Sparks is of the opinion that no bodies were involved. All he has to do is admit that his analysis of the Mogul data is wrong too and we can start to draw a line under this story.

 

[Analis]

Why would he admit that? Although his revelations relating to Mogul are more a confirmation than a breakthrough. From the beginning, the Mogul theory was sagging under the weight of its inconsistencies. The USAF reports of 1994 and 1995 included data contradicting it!
And he didn't say that there were no bodies at all, he is open-minded on that. He only told that if there were, they were probably of terrestrial origin.

 

[eburacum]

The Mogul explanation seems the most likely of the explanations for the tiny amount of debris recovered; nothing Sparks has said seems to contradict that.

 

[Analis]

Do you refer to the old assertion that the debris held in a barrow or a bin, or that they weighed a few pounds? If so, they couldn't come from a Mogul train, with its 20 balloons, its recorders, ballast, sonobuoy, two hundreds of meters of rope, etc... No witnesses mentionned any of it. There is a much more likely explanation: a weather balloon. Newspapers stated that Brazel had found one on 14 June, maybe it was that. And for a Mogul balloon to leave debris, at first there should have been one. As soon as the USAF released its 1995 USAF report, a number of commentators noticed that it cited documents which, ironically, refutated that there was one. This was not a misinterpretation, or isolated and erroneous papers. Files found later all pointed to the same conclusion. Including those written by main USAF witness, Pr Charles. L. MOORE. Add that the balloons and equipment were not secret; that the NYU staff at the time had no knowledge of the event caused by one of its balloons; or the recent revelation that Roswell AAFB probably knew of Mogul Project prior to 8 July, as Pr Charles Moore himself had to concede; we can conclude that the Mogul theory's skaky foundations crumbled.

 

[eburacum]

The debris does not seem to have come from an active Mogul balloon train, that is correct. One very good fit for the balloon seems to be a partial launch by the Mogul team on June 4 1947, not an operative Mogul flight but simply a test for a regular sonobouy. This is usually called Flight#4, although it was not apparently numbered as such.
http://members.aol.com/tprinty2/flight4.html

No-one remembers exactly what equipment was carried on that test; and despite some efforts to prove that it couldn't have landed near the Foster Ranch, the truth is that balloon flights are more or less chaotic, in the technical sense of the term. That means that effectively the landing site of an untracked balloon train would be more or less impossible to calculate.

 

[Analis]

There was a controversy on Moore's attempt to prove that Flight 4 (which he described as a full Mogul balloon train) reached the Foster ranch. Surprisingly, he modified parameters, but still reached the same conclusion! His methodology is flawed at best. But Sparks' refutations of his work works only with a true Mogul balloon train. He didn't study the case of a smaller balloon, single or small cluster.
Did the test flight launched on 4 June land on the Foster ranch? Maybe, but the NYU team sent up other test flights in June. Plus a number of weather balloons. The radar targets with flower tape were not a proof of a Mogul balloon. In fact, they were proof that it was not a Mogul balloon train: those launched in New Mexico did not bear any targets. It is possible that the small clusters were equipped with some, as their radar signature was lower. And it was likely the case with the NYU weather balloons. There is too the possibilty that the balloon found by Brazel came from the White Sands weather station at Orogrande, 50km (35 miles) south of Alamogordo. It used to send up four high-altitude weather balloons at 72, 48, 24 and 4 hours before each V-2 flights. The man who was in charge also worked with Project Mogul. So he could have come in possession of some of their rawins.
Project Mogul was probably involved with the birth of the legend, but played a minor part. Depictions of the symbols printed on the flower tape may have later evolved into tales of "hieroghlyphs". I suppose this was the case, but we can't prove it.

 

[rynner2]

Not quite sure what this is all about...

UFOs 'have been here since 1947'
UFOs exist and have been here since 1947, according to a British expert.

By Chris Irvine
Last Updated: 6:34AM BST 08 Oct 2008

Editor of UFO Data Magazine Philip Mantle is set to unveil his findings at an international conference this month.

He investigated the site in Roswell, New Mexico where many people believe there was an alien crash landing. He analysed rock, earth and vegetation.

The area is surrounded by charred trees and bushes and a mysterious blue substance that dribbles down rocks.

US physician Dr Ronald Rau said in the 1940s high levels of radiation pointed to a ship landing there in the 1940s.

The area in the Nogal Canyon is close to the well-known Socorro desert site where experts say another object appeared to have landed in 1964.

Mr Mantle said: "A good friend of mine Ed Gerham first found the site and I flew over as soon as I could.

"It was a real find and as soon as I arrived there I knew what a special and peculiar place it was. There is nothing around it for around 70 miles, it is literally in the middle of nowhere.

"Us Brits really have beaten the Americans at their own game and it is really great that we have done that. It really is revolutionary for the UFO world."

Mr Mantle is set to reveal his full findings at the UFO Data Annual Conference later this month in Leeds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3155580 ... -1947.html

 

[Analis]

New evidence of Pr Charles Moore's faulty memory :

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2008/09 ... -name.html

MOORE KNEW MOGUL'S NAME

......

In Karl Plock's anti-Roswell book, Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe, we learn, on page 145, that Charles Moore (Seen here), one of the project engineers, didn't even know the name of the project until 1992 when Robert Todd told him. It makes it sound as if Mogul was quite important and that it was so highly classified that it's not surprising that the officers and men at Roswell didn't know a thing about it.

I have reported, in the past, that Moore told me that he, along with a couple of others traveled from Alamogordo to Roswell to ask for assistance in tracking the balloon arrays. This would mean that there were officers and men at Roswell who did know about the project and what it was. And given the way the military works, at least one of those officers would have also been involved in the recovery on the Foster (Brazel) ranch and would have identified it.

And even if that wasn't true, we also know that the Mogul people were required to issue NOTAMs, that is, Notices to Airmen, about the launches so that had this been what had been found, one of the men, probably the operations officer, would have suggested that the debris was actually one of these balloons, had it been.

Now we have even more evidence about this. Writing on Errol Bruce Knapp's UFO UpDates, Brad Sparks tells us that Moore knew the name of the project long before Robert Todd told him what it was. Sparks gives us a look at a letter that was written in 1949, which was unclassified and which mentions Project Mogul by name. So, even the name of the Project was not classified.

The letter can be found at:

http://roswellproof.com/McLaughlin_Van_ ... etter.html

In the letter, dated May 12, 1949, Robert B. McLaughlin is describing, for James A. Van Allen (seen here), that C. B. Moore, yes, our Charles Moore, who he was. He then writes, "In addition to this, he had been head of Project Mogul for the Air Force."

I suppose you could say that Moore was unaware of the letter but acccording to Brad Sparks, Moore had received a courtesy copy and the copy that Sparks reproduced came from Moore's own files. So, it would seem that Moore knew the name long before Robert Todd told him what it was.

Even more impressive, are the diary notes written by Dr Albert Crary, chief of the project and reproduced by the Air Force in their massive The Roswell Report released in 1995. In Section 17, Journal Transcripts, Albert P. Crary, April 2 1946 - May 8, 1946 and December 2, 1946 - August 16, 1947, we can see that on December 11, 1946... "Equipment from Johns Hopkins Unicersity (sic) transferred to MOGUL plane..."
On december 12, Crary noted, "C-51 unloaded warhead material first then all MOGUL eqpt (sic) which went to North Hangar."

I've seen Jesse Marcel, Sr., the air intelligence officer at Roswell called a liar and worse just over these sorts of things. We can now document that Moore knew the name even as he insisted that neither he nor any of the others knew it in 1947. Clearly that statement is not accurate.
What we learn from all this is that even the name wasn't all that important. While the ultimate purpose might have been classified, it is quite clear that not even the name was. Crary puts in it his his diary and then McLaughlin writes about it in an unclassified letter, of which Moore has a copy.

......

 

[Dr_Baltar]

Mr Mantle is set to reveal his full findings at the UFO Data Annual Conference later this month in Leeds.

If I were him, I'd give up before I embarrassed myself any further.

 

[azuredoor]

Roswell popping up again in the news, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8098245.stm

The truth about Roswell?

UFO watchers believe that in 1947 a flying saucer with aliens on board landed outside the New Mexico town of Roswell and that an elaborate cover-up by the authorities followed. The BBC's Kevin Connolly went to Roswell in pursuit of the truth about the Roswell incident.

There is a lunar quality to the landscape of New Mexico which seems somehow appropriate for a state which is our portal to the heavens.
Roswell's International UFO Museum is a big draw for tourists


It is here on a dried-up lake bed high above sea level that the radio telescopes of the US government's Very Large Array (VLA) receive signals from the outer edges of our expanding universe, chasing the very moment of the Big Bang through the trackless void of time and space.

And of course it is also here - perhaps - that 62 years ago a flying-saucer crashed to earth on a ranch outside the town of Roswell, killing its alien crew and prompting one of the most elaborate and protracted cover-ups in history.

The power of that possibility and the darkness of the nights here so far from the light pollution of the big cities are what draw scientists and curious tourists alike to this entrancing place.

And it is what motivates watchers of the skies to keep, well, watching the skies, obviously.

Alien ambiguity

If UFO true-believers are right, then nothing much that has happened on our tiny, fragile planet in the years since that stormy summer's night really matters very much.

What, after all, would Watergate, or Vietnam or Iraq amount to if we could establish that the US government knew for sure that we are not alone in the universe?

Most of the big questions about alien life and UFOs can be traced back to Roswell - not least the issue of how life-forms from another civilisation have such an uncanny sense of when the tourist industry in a small US town could use a shot in the arm. My father saw the bodies, my father saw the craft
Julie Shuster, daughter of Roswell Air Force Base press officer


Are we really alone in the heavens, for example, and if we are not, do the civilisations with which we share the heavens mean us any harm?

Is it just a coincidence that aliens have never managed to find an earth-dweller who knows how to operate his own camera properly?

And why, if you have journeyed light years across the unknowable vastness of the heavens, would you confine yourself to a fleeting and ambiguous appearance before a handful of New Mexican ranchers?

Why not go the extra mile and find a research institute of some kind - unless our visitors have a sense of humour, of course.

But we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Let us return to that stormy summer New Mexican night in 1947 when the story of the UFO landing first broke.

It was a world of tension and uncertainty.

The United States had detonated the first atom bombs - they were developed just up the road at Los Alamos, New Mexico - and was uneasily aware that the Soviet Union, its increasingly hostile former ally, had nuclear ambitions of its own. The Cold War was just beginning.

'Switcheroo'

Roswell was in those days the home base of the 509th Bombardment Group of the US Eighth Army Air Force.

Most of the boys in the 509th were combat veterans and when they were tasked to investigate reports of some kind of landing on a ranch a short distance away it seems reasonable to assume they were not too excited at first. That soon changed.

When they got the material back to base, they quickly concluded they were onto something historic.

Their first press release talked of the recovery of a flying saucer - it was only when the suits descended from Washington that the tone of the official communiques changed.

The base intelligence officer who was tasked with taking the wreckage to another base reports leaving it in an office there and returning a few minutes later to find that the space debris he had brought had been replaced with parts of a weather balloon.
Dennis Balthaser believes the US government covered up a UFO crash


The fix was in. Faced with evidence of one of the most significant events in human history the American authorities had responded by pulling the old switcheroo.

One account of those days comes from Julie Shuster, whose father was the press officer at the Roswell base.

She now runs the museum in the town which is the focal point for the local UFO industry (it is on a street where the street lights have been decorated so that they look like alien heads).

For Julie there is a simple issue in all of this which goes back to the version of events her father passed on to her.

"My daddy didn't lie. My father saw the bodies, my father saw the craft," she says.

"He saw bodies - large heads, almond shaped eyes... and material that couldn't be burnt, ripped, cut - anything."

'Majestic 12'

It is not quite so personal for the other true believers in the incident.

Dennis Balthaser, for example, is a retired civil engineer who is perhaps the most meticulous researcher of the Roswell incident.

He has spent years (and thousands of dollars of his own money) tracing every witness and every player from that night in 1947 and is convinced that there was a landing. Basically [the president] can't be trusted with information like this
Dennis Balthaser
Roswell researcher


But he is at his most compelling when talking about the cover-up which follows.

Dennis lives in a rather frightening world where the US government would be perfectly happy to murder anyone (including him) who got too close to the truth.

He believes the US is really governed by a kind of secret committee of senior military and intelligence officials with the president serving as a kind of hired hand to deal with the public.

"Basically he can't be trusted with information like this" says Dennis.

"Back in Truman's time, we're looking at a thing called 'majestic 12', which was a group of some of the highest military people, some of the highest dignitary people we had. I believe today we still have a group similar to that that calls the shots."

Even before I met Dennis, I knew he believed that space travellers helped build the pyramids - where I, for example, am more inclined to the view that they are probably the work of Egyptians.

I expected to find him hopelessly naive - but the funny thing is he is so lucid and convincing that I left feeling rather naive myself.

(And in case you were wondering - if anyone ever lifts a quote from this article to promote a book or a DVD it will be that previous sentence.)

Missing balloon?

But here is the problem.

I mentioned before that New Mexico is a place where real science and Roswell science-lite co-exist.

And it is in that proximity that our explanation probably lies.

At the VLA (that centre of government radio telescopy) they will tell you that around the time of the crash, the US government was sending up special high-altitude weather balloons made of a then-classified material.

They were looking for atmospheric evidence that the Russians were testing their own nuclear bomb.

On the night of the Roswell incident, one of those balloons went missing.

Until, perhaps, it was found by the boys of the 509th.

And all that stuff about alien bodies being recovered and autopsies being performed? Well I leave you to speculate about that for yourselves.

If you find all that a little disappointing then you can always employ the debating technique favoured by UFO true believers - the deployment of questions designed to expose the lack of absolute certainty in almost all human affairs.

How do you know, for example, that there really is not a government department 27 layers above top secret tasked with keeping an eye on these things?

Perhaps they insist that articles like this are submitted to them for screening before publication.

And maybe this is not the script I originally wrote and submitted - just the script they sent back.

You could hardly blame me for giving in - I am sure you would not want to find my bleached bones left out in the desert, would you?

All I am saying is - keep watching the skies.