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Serial Killers

Stormkhan said:
...is there a more fair comparison i.e. a wealthy person found guilty of serial killing/spree killing?
Or - and this is an interesting thing - do serial killers tend to come from middle or low-class backgrounds?...
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Robert Durst may have been an exception to prove the rule - but he died before his appeal was heard, which means, bizarrely, that his original conviction was vacated (that is, made legally void). I think he was only ever tried for one murder (charges in another case were reduced to much lesser ones after a plea bargain) but his death put an end to any other legal proceedings.

Three known killings strongly associated with him - if not all tested in a court of law. There are suspicions of several others. I know this happens a lot when a known or suspected serial killer dies - however, in this case, I'm really quite sure that those suspicions are more than justified.

In general terms though, I wonder if the general anonymity which appears to be one of the characteristics - you might even say an enabler - of the classic serial killer is actually more difficult the more rarefied an individual's social environment is. That is, the smaller your group - the more observable you become.
 
Cochise said:
It's really impossible at this distance in time to sperate fact from fiction in such cases, and they often have a political / dynastic context as well. But taken at face value the first two cases illustrate even the privileged immune have things 'up with which they will not put'.
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When it comes to the historical murderers being rich or powerful they think they can act with impunity, often correct in the assumption because of the social situation at the time*. Nowadays, a large succession of killings would call for imprisonment and prosecution - perhaps not successful but at least becoming widely known. The powerful are aware that they should act within the law even if they don't think they need to.
The middle or lower classes knows that they should act within the law and know that if caught, they will be punished.
But I still wonder if there's a wealthy or powerful 'Ted Bundy' or 'Eileen Wournos out there?

* In their day, they might've indulged in behaviour that was frowned upon but was ignored while it was convenient. If too many wealthy people made a fuss, or - in Bathory's case - it becomes politically expedient, then their peers have the killer apprehended.
 
Stormkhan said:
They weren't killing 'for kicks' - they had a clear motive.
I admit, it's my own 'definition' but I see serial killers as targeting victims that aren't financially beneficial or are personally connected to the killer.
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True, and they weren’t strictly serial/spree killers; they were just my thoughts as to the “nearest thing available.”

maximus otter
 
Steven said:
Obviously, I could defend my various points - and criticise your own - but I'm new to this forum and don't wish this to possibly end in an argument or atmosphere. Out of respect for your forum-veteran status, I'll not continue.
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We criticise him all the time - in fact, it's compulsory to do so on a regular basis - (read the smallprint of your contract).
 
Lucy Letby, convicted of murder and attempted murder when working as a hospital neonatal nurse, has been granted leave to appeal.

Lucy Letby: Appeal bid to be heard by judges in April

Lucy Letby's bid to appeal against all of her convictions for murdering and attempting to murder babies will be heard in court in April.

The nurse's case will be considered by a panel of judges at a public hearing.

Letby was convicted of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of another six at the Countess of Chester Hospital between June 2015 and June 2016.

She lodged her appeal application shortly after her trial ended.

The 34-year-old, originally from Hereford, was turned down at the first stage, when a single judge reviewed her case papers.
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Frideswide said:
Grounds?
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We'll see.
She has never admitted a thing so it should be interesting.

However, she does have supporters.

Lucy Letby supporter who thinks baby killer is innocent gives lecture at University of Liverpool

A Lucy Letby supporter who dubbed her trial a "major miscarriage of justice" taught local students in Liverpool as part of an event.

Last week, Richard Gill, who is a professor of statistics, was invited as a 'guest speaker' to an event at the University of Liverpool, travelling from his home in the Netherlands to the UK.
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Spree Killers, Serial Killers? School Killers? Here are a Scottish father and son pair from hell!

I can find nothing on the Board about them and the case was entirely new to me. Maybe, starting in 1967, it was too much ahead of its time. Perhaps it got more local notice? Shocking stuff.

Youtube poster, Paul Brodie, has a lot of very grim stuff on his channel, delivered in dour style, which seems to warrant authenticity. Some of the cases are new to me. Well worth investigating.
 
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JamesWhitehead said:
Spree Killers, Serial Killers? School Killers? Here are a Scottish father and son pair from hell!

I can find nothing on the Board about them and the case was entirely new to me. Maybe, starting in 1967, it was too much ahead of its time. Perhaps it got more local notice? Shocking stuff.

Youtube poster, Paul Brodie, has a lot of very grim stuff on his channel, delivered in dour style, which seems to warrant authenticity. Some of the cases are new to me. Well worth investigating.
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All those other people that were needlessly killed after the first victim.

And then after all that, allowed out on day release? Unbelievable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_school_shootings
 
On BBC sounds, a podcast episode covering Harold Shipman:

Catching a Killer Doctor - Cautionary Tales with Tim Harford

Family doctor Harold Shipman got away with murdering his patients for decades. He was one of the most prolific serial killers in history - but his hundreds of crimes largely went unnoticed despite a vast paper trail of death certificates he himself had signed.

Why do we sometimes fail to see awful things happening right under our noses? And how can the systems that maintain quality control in cookie factories be employed to prevent another doctor like Shipman killing with impunity?
 
Steven said:
Lucy Letby is appealing against her conviction again:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...erial-killer-fresh-attempt-appeal-convictions


Sorry if I've asked this before but have forgotten I did so: I'm completely clueless about such care of infants, so could anyone with actual knowledge/experience tell me why they think Letby may be either guilty or innocent? Thanks.
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Someone noticed that a lot of infant deaths were occurring when Letby was on duty. They also noticed 'medication errors' that seemed to be her responsibility. Other evidence was also found that strongly suggests her guilt.
It's remotely feasible that she was set up by another member of staff, but this seems unlikely.
 
SimonBurchell said:
Why do we sometimes fail to see awful things happening right under our noses? And how can the systems that maintain quality control in cookie factories be employed to prevent another doctor like Shipman killing with impunity?
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Shipman's murders did not go unnoticed. Plenty were suspicious but thought they wouldn't be believed. They might fear being sued or even arrested.
Same with Lucy Letby; it's hard to stick your head over the parapet.
 
escargot said:
it's hard to stick your head over the parapet.
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Something I've never had a problem with in the face of cover ups and gross incompetence. Ms Me is as "bad" as I am which has sometimes been to her detriment professionally. I can see why it happens when you have something (a job or dosh if you fear getting sued) to lose and you need a quiet life though. Me - I've nothing to lose and don't get intimidated nomatter who is in my sights. I don't do it often and at my age need a quiet life myself but find it very hard to keep my head below the parapet on occasions. Doing nothing can have dire consequences as we have seen in the Shipman/ Letby and other cases.
 
PeteS said:
Something I've never had a problem with in the face of cover ups and gross incompetence. Ms Me is as "bad" as I am which has sometimes been to her detriment professionally. I can see why it happens when you have something (a job or dosh if you fear getting sued) to lose and you need a quiet life though. Me - I've nothing to lose and don't get intimidated nomatter who is in my sights. I don't do it often and at my age need a quiet life myself but find it very hard to keep my head below the parapet on occasions. Doing nothing can have dire consequences as we have seen in the Shipman/ Letby and other cases.
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Absolutely. I have spoken up and will again where necessary, and have described hereabouts the steps I'd've taken in the specific case of Lucy Letby.
But my point was people with more to lose might find it harder.
 
escargot said:
Absolutely. I have spoken up and will again where necessary, and have described hereabouts the steps I'd've taken in the specific case of Lucy Letby.
But my point was people with more to lose might find it harder.
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I guess that this might depend on what each person deems a greater loss to them. Money/financial stability or personal morals.

I personally couldn't ignore something this gross and disrespectful to people's lives. I know that even though I might lose financial stability, I can regain that. I would never regain my self if I ignored something that is morally wrong to me.

Thank goodness, there are some people who recognize this in themselves and can act.
 
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brownmane said:
I guess that this might depend on what each person deems a greater loss to them. Money/financial stability or personal morals.

I personally couldn't ignore something this gross and disrespectful to people's lives. I know that even though I might lose financial stability, I can regain that. I would never regain my self if I ignored something that is morally wrong to me.

Thank goodness, there are some people who recognize in themselves and can act.
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Yup. As I've said before, vulnerable people being harmed is a police matter. Ignoring it is not a valid decision.
 
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