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Serious Weirdness: The Godhead

nailrod

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Jan 31, 2006
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I see there was a call for some “serious weirdness” on a neighbouring thread that is still live. Since a fair number of people seemed interested in my “blinding flash of telepathy” story, I thought I would share this one too. In my lifetime I’ve had four seriously weird experiences, and a few minor ones. Of the “seriously weird”, this ranks number 2. Unfortunately for devotees of stories like Tamam Shud and the Lead Masks I guess it will be a little unsatisfactory, as it’s maybe a bit too mainstream and there isn’t any corroboration available – I’m afraid you just have to take my word at face value. But it will maybe keep people going until something better comes along…

It happened to me and my son in the late 1980s, when I was in my 30s and he would have been 4, or perhaps only just 5 years old. It’s worth adding as a foreword that my son was born in Scotland, but spent most of his early years in a village France, and we were living in the French-speaking area of Belgium at the time.

One evening I was sitting chatting to him (in English) in the living-room of our flat. I can’t remember how the subject came up, but for some reason I mentioned the word ‘spirit’ (in the metaphysical sense).

“Dad, what’s a ‘spirit’?” asked my 5 year old.

Ok. Tricky one. I suppose if I had been a Dawkinsian zealot I would have taken the buckle end of my belt to him, given him a thrashing, and told him: “There’s no such thing as ‘spirit’ - don’t ever use that word again!”

Instead, being a fairly open-minded kind of chap. I decided to make an effort to answer the question. So. Where to start, in explaining what ‘spirit’ is to a 5-year old? As I recall, my explanation went something like this: “Well, you know the bit inside of you that feels like ‘you’. And you know how it feels like it’s happening inside your head? Well it’s not really happening inside your head. That’s just what it feels like. That bit, that’s your spirit.”

I doubt if David Hume would have been very impressed, but hey, with a 5-year old, on the spur of the moment, it was the best I could do.

My son looked very thoughtful for a few seconds, as if he was trying to grasp what I was talking about. Then suddenly, in a very matter of fact voice, he said to me: “Dad. I can see a godhead.”

Anybody who has ever had kids that age will know for themselves that it really isn’t very hard to tell the difference between a toddler who’s lying, one who’s playacting, and one who’s telling the truth. I am absolutely certain that my son was neither lying nor playacting.

Obviously I was rather taken aback, and very intrigued. So I said back to him, in an equally matter of fact voice: “Really? Where is it?”

He pointed to a spot about two or three feet from my chair. “It’s over there, hanging in the air, just near you.”

“What does it look like?” I asked.

“It looks like a kind of funny bear, with horns. And it’s got lines going across its face, like the television.” (Our television was rather old and the vertical hold was slightly wonky – old folk will know what I mean.)

“Is it scary?”

“No.” He looked at it for a few seconds longer. “It’s gone now.” The whole experience had lasted for maybe 20 or 30 seconds.

Obviously, I immediately thought of all the things I should have asked him. “Ask it where it comes from,” for example.

But it wasn’t until many years later, by which time he had forgotten the incident, that I thought of one of the most interesting questions I could have asked him - even after it was gone - which was: Why did he call it a ‘godhead’?

Bear in mind that he was either 4, or only just 5. Why didn’t he tell me he could see a funny animal? Or a bear’s head? Or a funny bear with horns? Where did he get the concept of a ‘godhead’ from, never mind the word itself?

We weren’t a religious family. We didn’t say prayers, or grace before meals. My wife did go to church fairly regularly, and sometimes took him along. But she was more of a ‘social’ Christian (by which I mean somebody who goes to church with the principal aim of exchanging malicious gossip about her friends and neighbours). And even so, the church she went to was the village church in France, where all the service would have been in French. My son was pretty much bilingual, but I don’t know of any common reference in Catholic services to “la tête de Dieu” or anything similar, which my son might have heard and translated into English for himself as ‘godhead’.

I’m vaguely aware of various rumours and legends of the worship of disembodied heads among heresies and unorthodoxies like the Cathars and the Templars, but have never been able to find any detail on these. I would be very interested in hearing from anybody who does know more about the subject, and whether there is anything in these stories that sounds like what my son said he saw.
 
Godhead

The term Godhead is used by most English speaking Christians in a technical sense to refer collectively to the three persons of the Trinity (Father Son and Holy Spirit). To be honest I don't know why. I also don't know what the equivalent term in french Christianity would be, because Tete de Dieu is Head of God, which seems to me a slightly different concept.

It also doesn't technically connect well with the thing your son saw, but as a five year old he wasn't to know that. Maybe he just used a term he had vaguely heard to describe what he was seeing because in his mind it fitted.

Having said that I'm aware that it doesn't clarify much; in fact it adds to the oddness???
 
Wow! Another cracking story, nailrod. Very creepy. Did your son ever mention it again, later in life?
 
Interesting story indeed but it occured to me that he might have meant goat head, what with the horns and all.
 
nailrod said:
“It looks like a kind of funny bear, with horns.

Googling "bear with horns" and "horned bear" brings up some interesting images, including
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDR...lu-ray/large/large monsters inc blu-ray4x.jpg

By which image I don't mean to belittle your story. However, I do find it interesting that the character designer would think to put horns on what looks like a linebacker teddy bear.

It's interesting also that only your child could see the figure. Adults seem to be locked out of these things, I suppose so we can just get on with it.

As for "godhead," even in a church populated by French-speaking people, surely there are many bi-linguals (including your wife). "Godhead" is often used to refer to the Trinity, so your child might easily have heard the word.

Great story; thanks for sharing it with us.
 
Yes, good story. 'A funny bear with horns' - no idea. Doesn't sound like anything that I would relate to godhead, even though I know the word.

Do you think he might have heard 'godhead' and not known what it meant, and misunderstood its meaning, or only realised it meant something vague or invisible?

I remember several times during my growing up that words I only knew slightly or had only heard others using turned out later to have meant something quite different from what I had guessed.
 
Could he not just have meant "God head", i.e. the head of a God? How else would you describe such a thing floating in the air? Something pagan, maybe.
 
gncxx said:
Could he not just have meant "God head", i.e. the head of a God? How else would you describe such a thing floating in the air? Something pagan, maybe.

Yeah, that's what I thought.
 
Just a theory, but do children tend to be comfortable seeing strange things since they haven't yet been trained by TV and other sources on what scary things are, and why they are scary?

For example, this bear creature, or even a skeleton. Would it be instinctively scary to someone who can't relate it with anything they've ever known? I'm leaning toward no.
 
Re: Godhead

SFegredo said:
The term Godhead is used by most English speaking Christians in a technical sense to refer collectively to the three persons of the Trinity (Father Son and Holy Spirit). To be honest I don't know why. I also don't know what the equivalent term in french Christianity would be, because Tete de Dieu is Head of God, which seems to me a slightly different concept.

'Godhead' may be borrowed conceptually from Judaism, especially ideas that run through the Kabbalah. There, instead of 3 paths, there are multiple paths to the godhead.

Aside from that, the visual concept of a bear with horns is somewhat similar to the odd creatures depicted in Gnosticsm.
 
nailrod said:
...

Ok. Tricky one. I suppose if I had been a Dawkinsian zealot I would have taken the buckle end of my belt to him, given him a thrashing, and told him: “There’s no such thing as ‘spirit’ - don’t ever use that word again!”

...
That's probably one of the most bizarre things that I've read on this message board in quite a long time.

It's the weird juxtaposition of the possible extreme actions of a religious fanatic, with the name of one of the most deliberate and boringly reasonable people working in science and writing books on materialistic humanism, in the world today. Excellently grotesque.

There's more chance of a, 'Dawkinsian zealot', boring their children to death with fulsome explanations of why, who they think they, are is a mere accident of zombie processes and electro-chemical interactions, than of them hitting them.

Really. :lol:
 
i dont know about you but i infrequently use the term -godhead- to figuratively refer to someone supreme within a field etc ... a bit like i sometimes use -holy grail- eg if you want to know about such-and-such talk to so-and-so hes the godhead ... am i wrong ?
 
Thanks for all the comments. Some responses:

SFegredo: The Holy Trinity in French is "La Trinite" or "La Sainte Trinite". But as I'll eleborate later, that would add to rather than reduce the weirdness.

Cherrybomb: My son remembered it for quite a long time afterwards. In fact a few weeks later he told me he had had a dream in which I and the Godhead somehow became confused. But he's in his twenties now and he doesn't remember the incident any more, although he knows it happened and we still sometimes chat about it.

Ronson8: Goat head. Interesting hypothesis. Weak point would appear to be that if he said to me "I can see a goat head", and I said "What does it look like?", the obvious answer would have been "Er... duh. It looks like a goat head Dad. What else would it look like?" :lol:

But along with SHAYBARSABE you triggered a very interesting thought that had never occurred to me before.

SHAYBARSABE: We lived in a small and rather remote village in France, with only a few hundred people. There weren't any other English speakers. It's possible that my son heard my ex engaged in a theological discussion in French about the nature of La Sainte Trinite (although she would have been more likely to be talking about the shortcomings of the husband of whichever neighbour hadn't turned up). It's even possible that he asked her what "La Sainte Trinite" meant, and she told him "In English it's Godhead."

But that still wouldn't explain why he would associate a disembodied head of something that looked like a horned bear with The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost. It would have been even weirder (and possibly a source of large sums of money from gullible pilgrims) if he had said to me "Dad. I can see the Holy Ghost."

Your other point, along with Ronson8, is really interesting. The incident took place in about 1988, when images were much less ubiquitous than they are today - no DVDs, computers, or internet. But my son would certainly have seen lots of images of bears, perhaps even conceivably an image of a horned bear.

However, it's quite possible that he hadn't seen an image of a goat. They weren't common in the area of France where we lived, and they're a lot less common than bears in kids' stories. Conversely, horned goats are a lot more common in esoteric and pagan tradition than horned bears (Baphomet, for example).

So if what my son saw was actually a goat's head, he wouldn't necessarily have been able to identify it as such. When I asked him what it looked like, it's quite plausible that he might cast around for the nearest approximation he was familiar with, and come up with "a funny bear". This isn't something that had ever occurred to me before.

Cochise/gncxx/HenryFort: The thing is, he wasn't in the least vague when he first saw the thing. It wasn't like he was struggling to find a word to describe something that he was having difficulty identifying. He stated to me, very clearly and categorically, and in a very matter of fact voice "Dad. I can see a godhead."

Why would such a young child come up with such an odd word, with which he could barely, if at all, have been familiar, when there were so many terms that he could have used that would have been very familiar to him?

Human_84: The experience wasn't the least bit frightening, for him or for me. I found it fascinating, but I still tear my hair out when I think of all the things I might have asked him, if I'd been a bit sharper on the uptake.

Pietro_mercurius: Arrrrggghh! It was just a joke. I don't actually believe that there are Dawkinsian zealots out there who will take the buckle end of their belt to their kids if they ask them what a spirit is :lol:
 
I actually thought of the knights templar when I read your post because they were supposed to worship heads.
When I googled, The only picture that I could find was the goat but I read somewhere else that what had been reported varied from a human skull to animal heads including a cat and that part of the ceremony mentioned head of god.
Really interesting happening nailrod.
 
Goats, eh?
Perhaps he saw 'The Holy Goat' rather than 'The Holy Ghost'?
 
Could you have misheard 'Doghead'? :D
 
I'm intrigued by the lines going across the face. As if there was an element of 'don't worry, I'm not really here, I'm just like a TV picture'. There are other threads that relate encounters with entities that appear 2 dimensional, or projected (and if I wasn't about to go to bed, I'd find 'em!). And for some reason I've just thought of several accounts of religious visions that appeared to be projected onto church walls.

Perhaps sometimes, when messing with physics and perception, the universe just finds it easier to render in 2D!

BTW had your son never heard 3 Billie Goats Gruff?
 
Godhead

Just a wild tangent here, but could he have possibly seen a viking style head with the wild beard and horned helmet and thought it was bear like in appearance, when it was a god like oh say, odin? And said it was a
god{s} head?
Just postulating here.
 
Re: Godhead

Richard__Cheese said:
Just a wild tangent here, but could he have possibly seen a viking style head with the wild beard and horned helmet and thought it was bear like in appearance, when it was a god like oh say, odin? And said it was a
god{s} head?
Just postulating here.

Excellent! Mystery solved.
 
Re: Godhead

ramonmercado said:
Richard__Cheese said:
Just a wild tangent here, but could he have possibly seen a viking style head with the wild beard and horned helmet and thought it was bear like in appearance, when it was a god like oh say, odin? And said it was a
god{s} head?
Just postulating here.

Excellent! Mystery solved.

And another one created.
 
Perhaps he saw something like this one?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/berenson/3634879614/lightbox/

I am surprised that no one has thought of this, but... Is it at all possible that he had heard the word *goat*, associated with an image of the animal, but did not correctly understand it was a distinct animal? Perhaps misunderstood the word as referring to, well, something bearlike with horns?
This seems a lot more likely to me, knowing how children tend to deal with the world, than having heard "godhead" somewhere. It doesn`t explain him seeing the thing at all, but it would make his naming a lot more reasonable.

He sees a goat picture somewhere - asks what it is, and perhaps is told that it is a "goat" in English. Instead of thinking that it is a distinct animal, he remembers it as what we call bears with horns (as that is what the goat looked like to him). He isn`t quite sure of the word so mispronounces it a bit, sounding like "god". As the word isn`t commonly used between you, describing it as a bear with horns when asked would be normal.

Of course, the mystery of what he actually saw and why remains... But I think that he was probably meaning to call it a goat head.
 
Re: Godhead

Richard__Cheese said:
Just a wild tangent here, but could he have possibly seen a viking style head with the wild beard and horned helmet and thought it was bear like in appearance, when it was a god like oh say, odin? And said it was a
god{s} head?
Just postulating here.

That's an interesting one. Never thought of it. Which would be odder - seeing "a bear with horns" or a viking head? Guess they both qualify as pretty weird...
 
Re: Godhead

ramonmercado said:
Richard__Cheese said:
Just a wild tangent here, but could he have possibly seen a viking style head with the wild beard and horned helmet and thought it was bear like in appearance, when it was a god like oh say, odin? And said it was a
god{s} head?
Just postulating here.

Excellent! Mystery solved.

:lol:
 
As someone posted early on, "Godhead" is a technical term (it actually means "Godhood"), but it's not how one would translate "Trinité" - that would be Trinity. I suspect there's no French equivalent. You'd probably just translate "Godhead" into French as "Dieu" or "La Divinité," I would think.

But that's a tangent. To me, it sounds like "god" was an adjective describing what kind of (literal) head he was seeing. Maybe he used the word "god" because it was something difficult to describe, obviously not "really" there, perhaps supernatural in origin.

What might his associations with the word and idea of "God" have been at that time?

Fascinating story!
 
Just a theory, but do children tend to be comfortable seeing strange things since they haven't yet been trained by TV and other sources on what scary things are, and why they are scary?

For example, this bear creature, or even a skeleton. Would it be instinctively scary to someone who can't relate it with anything they've ever known? I'm leaning toward no.

Interesting idea, especially considering multiple studies have shown that young children don't tend to display distaste toward people who are diffent to them.

So perhaps kids wouldn't be afraid of ghosts/monsters/bogeymen if it wasn't for stories. Fears, as with discrimination, may just be learned behaviour.
 
This is a very intertesting story. Your son probably just meant it looked magical and that’s why he called it God’s Head.
 
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