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SETI & Anomalous Signals

Sorry about that. The dreaded newbie strikes again! Plenty of information again.

I was interested to read about the cancer version of this. There's also one involving the search for the next Mersenne prime, if anyone is interested - not sure of a link but very sure it exists. Also pretty sure there's lots of other biochemical ones..

There's an old joke about Fermi's paradox ; Enrico Fermi remarked that if there was intelligent extraterrestrial life out there, why aren’t they here already?

To which the Hungarian Leo Szilard replied “how do you know they aren’t here already, and they’re called Hungarians?”


edit - now i realise you all discussed Fermi's paradox at length here, so took out my explication of it: Fermi's paradox
 
My main excuse for posting this link is so I can quote this:
But there are more exotic alternatives. In their entertaining book Evolving the Alien, Jack Cohen and Ian Stewart argue that life will take immensely diverse forms, emerging in a variety of environments. They are no more impressed by the "rare Earth" argument that only a very special planet could harbour life than by the fact that our legs are exactly long enough to reach the ground.
Also this:
The Fermi paradox is not entirely compelling. Indeed, a recent book by Stephen Webb claims to offer 50 different counter-arguments. ET's signal may simply have been missed, for example. Webb concludes the best option may be that we really are alone. But as often in science, opinions are most strongly polarised when evidence is minimal; we know far too little about how life began, even on Earth, to offer confident odds. Moreover, no matter how heavy the odds against finding it, searches for extraterrestrial intelligence are surely a worthwhile gamble because of the huge philosophical import of any detection.
Worth a read.
 
Re: SETI@HOME

Vercingetorix said:
What is the opinion within UFOlogy of the SETI@HOME project? As exemplified at http://setiathome.berkeley.edu . My laptop uses this as its screensaver - are there any more FT message boarders using it as one? Is there any point?

I use it too.... but only coz I like the pretty colours :p . Not really bothered abouse usefulness.
 
Nasa pays out £3m in hunt for aliens
The hunt for distant life is back on Nasa's agenda. The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute (Seti), based in California, has received a five-year m (£3m) grant from Nasa to conduct research into the planetary context for life.

The money represents Seti's first major Nasa funding since 1993. Funds were cut after Congress critics caricatured Seti as a wacky alien hunt. The institute continued as a private non-profit organisation, but the economic downturn has put it under increasing financial pressure.

"We're glad to have them on board," says Rose Grymes, who heads Nasa's Astrobiology Institute at the Ames Research Centre in California, which is funding the research.

Grymes says Seti researchers will conduct studies of Jupiter's moons, as well as preparing a list of stars that might be home to intelligent life.
 
3 million??!!?
That's not a lot... NASA probably spends more on training astronauts who are never going to go into orbit!
 
just a thought but if nasa found and alien signal,and told us about it
wouldnt that make them un needed as they would ulimatley be obsolite,as in a some other agency would have to deal with the information and possibly act upon it.
and even worse for nasa if we had fruitfull contact with spacefaring aleins would it be left to nasa to emulate them.
me thinks the air,army,navy might have the bigger say

the only way nasa can win is if its percived that they are the best hope for succes in there efforts
 
Blind -- and looking for ET
Menlo Park physicist Kent Cullers directs research and development for SETI, the institute that searches for intelligent life out there. He also supports organizations that support people with visual impairments.

"I'm the first totally blind physicist and astronomer in the United States -- and probably the world."

Starting with these words, Kent Cullers of Menlo Park recently mesmerized an Atherton audience, describing how he has addressed twin challenges in his life: growing up blind from infancy; and searching the skies to detect weak signals that may tell us we are not alone -- that there is other intelligent life out there, somewhere.
A long but interesting article. It doesn't say much new about SETI, but I found the idea of a blind physicist intrigueing - how could he study Optics, for example?

Before reading this article, I'd have assumed that everyone on this MB was sighted - now I'm not so sure...
 
I see your point

I hope to hear from them soon. Probably will find out about it long time after the "big wiggs " think we can take it , with out burning down a McDonalds.
 
Nostalgia time:

OHIO MILEPOSTS | AUG. 15, 1977
EXTRATERRESTRIAL PHONES OHIO?

Friday, August 15, 2003
NEWS 05C
By Gerald Tebben
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

E.T. might have tried to phone Ohio on Aug. 15, 1977. But nobody was listening at 11:16 p.m., and scientists in the years since haven't been able to figure out what, if anything, the extraterrestrial was saying.

A radio telescope dubbed ''Big Ear'' and operated by Ohio State University was scanning space from Delaware County when a booming 70-second burst was received from a point in the sky that tracked from the middle of the Milky Way. It had all the earmarks of an intelligent transmission.

A monitoring computer captured the transmission's frequencies, strength and location, and reported it as the code, ''6EQUJ5.'' Volunteer Jerry Ehman was checking the printout days later when he came across the remarkable sequence. ''It was stronger than anything I had seen in the past, so -- without thinking -- I wrote Wow! in the margin,'' he later recalled.

The odd transmission, never repeated or explained, became known as the ''Wow!'' signal. UFO buffs point to it as proof of life beyond the planet. Scientists regard it mostly as an interesting curiosity.

Big Ear, the size of three football fields, was a pioneering radio telescope famed for its ability to detect quasars. Between 1965 and '72, the Ohio Sky Survey scanned 70 percent of the sky and reported nearly 20,000 radio sources. The telescope, near Perkins Observatory, was demolished in 1998.
Incidentally, it is also 30 years since Uri Geller first demonstrated spoon bending on TV.

(He was on Stars in Their Eyes tonight, looking far younger than he oughta - he must be in league with the devil... :eek!!!!: )
 
Another thing that occurs to me is that the more advanced radio communications become the more discriminatory and short range they become. I mean, they're not going to receive your latest mobile phone message to boyfriend/Mum or whatever on Alpha Centauri are they? The modulation of a signal makes a difference too - FM is more discriminatory than AM for instance. I get the feeling we'll be lucky indeed to receive any kind of radio signal from an advanced civilisation unless they're deliberately sending one designed to reach us.

Maybe some techno wizz could pick this up and elaborate for us.
 
If there are civilisations more advanced than us, it's surely reasonable to assume there are also those at the same level as us.
 
Yes,

The USA is just looking for radio waves that have "oil" signatures. Those that don't mention oil , we're not interested in.
 
any other civilization wouldnt be overly keen to talk to us anyhow
we belive we are the center of the universe and that "god",some kind of supreme being that created everything,made us in his own image so we could inherit everything.

not that we belive that god will ever die lol

on top of the rabid belife that any alein would try to kill , invade ,violate us etc

just why would they bother ?
 
p.younger said:
If there are civilisations more advanced than us, it's surely reasonable to assume there are also those at the same level as us.

Human society will probably not remain at our current level of technology for very long; we will either become much more advanced in technology, simply because of the very information tech that I am using to talk to you with;

or our society will collapse through lack of resources in the next two hundred years.

Treading water is not an option...

there probably are a number of stable states for civilisation to stagnate in;
but our current level is probably not one of them,

(in my opinion, of course)
 
SETI's New Ears
Five hours north of San Francisco in the cold, windswept foothills of California's mostly dormant volcano country lies the town of Hat Creek. The nearest semblance of a city is Redding, though the natural beauty of Lassen Volcanic National Park may be more familiar to outsiders.

California may have 34 million residents, the most of any U.S. state, but you wouldn't know it driving here.

Tonight on "Tech Live," see the first dishes in the Allen Telescope Array (ATA), which are set to go online in 2005. We'll also give you an amazing look at what others are doing to find life in the universe on TechTV's weekend special, "The Search for E.T."

Radio-free California

We're not here for mountains. We're here to see the glimmering, humming radio astronomy observatory built by the University of California, Berkeley and the SETI Institute. The university figured this place was best to host the telescopes, which are named after Microsoft founder and TechTV owner Paul Allen, who gave the SETI Institute a .5 million grant to build what will be 350 dishes. Their 6.1 meter-diameter shape will give astronomers an unprecedented listen to any potential signals coming from extraterrestrials.

"There aren't many places on the earth that still remain radio quiet. This valley is one of them and that's why the telescopes are being built here," says Dr. Jill Tarter, SETI Institute's director.

Tarter knows a little something about searching for E.T. Carl Sagan based his main character in "Contact," Dr. Ellie Arraway, on Tarter. And she paints a vivid picture of what it's like to be a SETI Institute astronomer.

Flexible dishes

Hat Creek ain't big, yet, but what it lacks in size, it makes up for in technology. Right now, three dishes form the first part of a 32-dish array. They're unimpressive, barely bigger than backyard TV dishes, and they're made in similar fashion. But eventually, 350 of them will pop up around the volcanic valley, and they'll be linked by some of the most sophisticated technology around.

"What we actually can do is use our telescopes at various frequencies to try to detect evidence of something else's technology," says Tarter. She says we can't tell if other beings are intelligent, only if they can make radio waves. But from that, we can infer that there's a smart civilization out there.

The key to Hat Creek is that it'll be running 24-7. But unlike the SETI@home project at Arecibo, these astronomers can point their dishes wherever they want, any time, day or night.

A personal mission

Tarter's search began as a child, walking along the Florida beaches with her father, looking up at the stars, realizing each might have its own planets. "The sky became really interesting, and the idea that some other small creature might be walking with their father on a beach somewhere was something I felt very comfortable with," Tarter recalled.

"What we require [at SETI] is people of vision. Obviously someone whose main thought is about what's on television tonight and what [they're] going to eat for dinner usually is not someone who's going to get really fired up about making SETI a reality long term, or build a telescope like this."

Despite Tarter's quest for focused scientists, we're worried about our television, and we couldn't stop thinking about what restaurants we'd find near Hat Creek. We ended up eating Safeway groceries at 11 p.m. that night. Despite the hunger, we're still mesmerized by the telescopes. And Tarter herself is one of those "people of vision."

"We could be bathed in radio signals from extraterrestrial civilizations that we haven't yet discovered... they may have been around for a very long time, it's just going to be a question, perhaps, of finding the right technology, looking in the right place with the right technique. Then, perhaps we'll succeed, perhaps we won't."
 
But what about aliens that inhabit other worlds, around other stars? How easy would it be for them to learn of our existence? If they’ve already built planet-finding telescopes, comparable to, or slightly better than, the one that NASA will be hefting into orbit in the next dozen years, then they could detect the Earth. With substantially larger telescopes, they could find our planet from hundreds or even thousands of light-years’ distance. Not only that, but they could also spectroscopically sample the light reflected from our atmosphere, and learn that it has large quantities of oxygen and methane, tell-tale markers of biology.

In other words, aliens -- even relatively distant aliens -- could make straightforward astronomical observations that would prove that the third planet from the Sun hosts life. If biology is common in the cosmos, then Earth might be just another entry in a long list of "living worlds" compiled by some alien graduate student. Its discovery might not excite the extraterrestrials very much.

But proof of intelligence on this planet might.

So how could the aliens learn that high IQ creatures crawl the Earth? For them to see the Great Wall of China, the lights from our cities, or even the cities themselves, would be extremely difficult. But as virtually every reader of these columns knows, our radio signals are dead giveaways of terrestrial technology. The aliens could "hear" us far more easily than they could see us.

Radio was invented in the 19th century, and large-scale broadcasting began in the 1920s. Alas, these early broadcasts were of low power, and at low frequency. The difficulty with low frequency transmissions, such as AM radio, is that they are refracted by Earth’s ionosphere, and have difficulty making it into space. However, beginning in the 1950s, we started to construct high-power, high frequency transmitters – for radar, for FM radio, and for television. These signals leaked off the planet, and headed for the stars.

A modern TV transmitter can put out as much as a megawatt of power. It’s not very tightly focused, so even though much of the broadcast energy spills into space, it’s fairly weak by the time it reaches another star system. Consider one of our early TV programs just washing over a planet that’s 50 light-years’ away. To detect the "carrier" signal from this broadcast in a few minutes’ time would require about 3,000 acres of rooftop antennas connected to a sensitive receiver. That’s a lot of antennas, and an unsightly concept. But it’s not hard to build, and the aliens could conceivably do it. If the extraterrestrials were unwise enough to actually want to see the program, then they’d need an antenna about 30,000 times greater in area (roughly the size of Colorado). Ambitious, but possible.

A rather easier task would be to detect our military radars. The bigger ones typically boast a megawatt of power, and are focused into beams that are a degree or two across. There are enough such radars that, at any given time, they cover a percent of the sky or so. The signal from the most powerful of these could be found at 50 light-years’ distance in a few minutes time with a receiving antenna 1,000 feet in diameter. Indeed, these military radars are the only signals routinely transmitted from Earth that are intense enough to be detectable at interstellar distances with setups equivalent to our own SETI experiments.

Bottom line? With radio technology slightly more advanced than our own, Homo sapiens is detectable out to a distance of roughly 50 light-years. Within that distance are about 5,000 stars, all of which have had the enviable pleasure of receiving terrestrial television. And each day, a fresh stellar system is exposed to signals from Earth.

But even if you believe in highly optimistic estimates regarding the prevalence of cosmic intelligence, it’s unlikely that another civilization exists within 50 light-years. That’s too small a distance. We’re no doubt listed in some alien grad student’s data tables as a world with life, but without the footnote indicating intelligent life. We are the new kids on the block, and so far it’s a safe bet that none of the other kids know we’re here.
Part of this article:

Can Aliens Find Us?
 
I would say this that they would all ready have something to pick up the signal's and it would not half to be very big at all and this device can scan a very wide range and put this signal into it right formate.

Nebka
 
Mysteries of Wow
Of the many "maybe's" that SETI has turned up in its four-decade history, none is better known than the one that was discovered in August, 1977, in Columbus, Ohio. The famous Wow signal was found as part of a long-running sky survey conducted with Ohio State University's "Big Ear" radio telescope.

The Wow signal's unusual nomenclature connotes both the surprise of the discovery and its sox-knocking strength (60 Janskys in a 10 KHz channel, which is more than 50 thousand times more incoming energy than the minimum signal that would register as a hit for today's Project Phoenix.)

But is the Wow signal's notoriety merely the triumph of marketing over substance? Could this momentary cosmic burp have really been ET, or was it just random terrestrial interference dressed up with a sexy moniker? For a decade, Robert Gray, a long-time, independent SETI researcher from Chicago, has been trying to find out.

Gray, like many others, was attracted by an intriguing feature of the Wow signal: the manner in which it rose and fell over the course of 72 seconds.

Why is this interesting?

Just this: the Ohio State survey kept the telescope fixed, letting the Earth's daily spin rotate the heavens through its narrow beam. The "beam," of course, was the elongated patch of sky to which the telescope was sensitive - the direction from which it could pick up cosmic signals. The sensitivity was greatest at the center of the beam, falling off to either side.

So as a celestial radio source passed by, it first rose in apparent intensity as Earth's rotation brought it into the beam, reached a peak in the beam center, and then faded away.

Given the size of the Ohio State beam, this rise and fall should take 72 seconds. And for the Wow signal, it did.

Now contrast this with what you'd expect if the telescope had merely been briefly flooded by an interfering terrestrial signal. The intensity would suddenly switch full on, and then, sometime later, switch off. Even if the interference was due to a low-Earth orbit satellite, a source that might cause a rise and fall in intensity, you wouldn't expect it to fortuitously last for 72 seconds.

For these reasons, the Wow signal gets high marks for being a credible candidate for SETI.

On the other hand, there are some aspects of this seductive signal that nudge it toward a lower grade. The Ohio State telescope actually used two beams, situated side-by-side on the sky. Any cosmic source would therefore be seen first in one (for 72 seconds) and then - roughly 3 minutes later - in the other (also 72 seconds.) The Wow signal failed this simple test. It came on gangbusters in one beam, but was a no-show in the other: suspicious and disheartening.

But as Gray and others have realized, this odd, one-beam behavior could be caused by an alien transmission that simply went off the air during the 3 minutes between beams.

Maybe ET went on vacation, or took an extended lunch break. If the putative aliens permanently shut down their transmitter, then there's no chance of ever hearing the Wow signal again. Like a single sighting of the Loch Ness monster, we would never be able to prove what it was. But if the signal is periodic - if, for example, the aliens are using a rotating radio beacon that sweeps the star-studded strata of the Milky Way once every five minutes or every five hours - then we could hope to find it by just looking again.

Robert Gray has looked again. And again. In the last decade, Gray and his colleagues have used the Harvard META SETI system and then the Very Large Array (VLA) to search for a reappearance of the Wow signal.

The experiment at the VLA, in particular, was an impressive effort, as it was far more sensitive than the original Ohio State equipment and covered more of the band. Neither attempt succeeded in retrieving the signal, however.

Gray realized that he might be the victim of insufficient patience. The longest of his reobservations had been 22 minutes. What if the aliens' beacon flashed less often than once every 22 minutes? What if their transmitter was fixed to the home planet, rotating (and flashing) once every 20 or 30 hours?

In The Astrophysical Journal, Gray and Simon Ellingsen, of Australia's University of Tasmania, report on new observations (partially supported by the SETI Institute) designed to test this idea. Their new try was made at the 26-meter radio telescope in Hobart, Tasmania. This southern hemisphere instrument could continuously follow for most of a day the patch of sky (in the constellation of Sagittarius) where the "Big Ear" was pointing when it found the 'Wow' signal. They made six 14-hour observations, and even though their telescope was rather smaller than the venerable Ohio State antenna, they still had sufficient sensitivity to find signals only 5% as strong as Wow's 1977 intensity. They also covered five times as much of the radio dial as the original "Big Ear" telescope.

Bottom line? No dice.

To quote from their article, "no signals resembling the Ohio State Wow were detected..."

Of course, if the signal's repetition cycle were much longer than 14 hours, then even this careful experiment could have easily missed it. But as Gray and Ellingsen point out, if the signal were really this infrequent, then the chance to have found it in the first place was very slim.

So was the Wow signal our first detection of extraterrestrials?

It might have been, but no scientist would make such a claim. Scientific experiment is inherently, and rightly, skeptical. This isn't just a sour attitude; it's the only way to avoid routinely fooling yourself.

So until and unless the cosmic beep measured in Ohio is found again, the Wow signal will remain a What signal.
I've said before, that a transmitter fixed to a rotating planet sufficiently far away may only hit Earth once (or just a few times), because precesssion of the planet's spin axis would have eventually shifted the plane in which the beam is rotating.

Over light year distances, only a small angular shift would render a narrow beam signal undetectable.
 
Consider one of our early TV programs just washing over a planet that’s 50 light-years’ away. To detect the "carrier" signal from this broadcast in a few minutes’ time would require about 3,000 acres of rooftop antennas connected to a sensitive receiver. That’s a lot of antennas, and an unsightly concept. But it’s not hard to build, and the aliens could conceivably do it. If the extraterrestrials were unwise enough to actually want to see the program, then they’d need an antenna about 30,000 times greater in area (roughly the size of Colorado).
The Seti program is obviously not going to pick up tv broadcasts from even a nearby star; the antenae aren't big enough.

Perhaps some solar systems are using high powered radar to detect asteroids;
now that would be detectable from quite a distance; but the signal wouldn't carry much information.

As far as the 'Wow signal goes;
my guess is that some civilisations out there could have interstellar ships in transit between the stars; these journeys could take years, and sometimes they would want to contact or be contacted by their home system (or destination);
a tightly focussed message to a ship in transit might last a short time, then never be repeated as the angle between the ship and its home planet changes.

Perhaps such a message would last a little longer than a few minutes, however.
 
fact is we wouldnt use radio to communicate with mars let alone another solar system
either et is stupid or hes using another method to communicate!
radio just isnt up to it is it?
 
The use of radio, or not, depends on what a hypothetical ET civilisation is attempting to do. If it is high data rate comms over any real distance with an identified receiver, then possibly not. If, on the other hand, it is a deliberate attempt to communicate with strange alien creatures like us, then I wouldn't rule it out.
 
as if you intened to speak with said recipents you would expect them to understand you or at least recive the signal
i would think radio to be too basic to send any decent message and also too basic to bother with as recipients wouldnt need to be very advanced to send it so i doubt they would want to talk to them anyhow

i know from experience that idiots make very dull conversation :)
 
TBH, if they're thinking along those lines, surely we're more likely to end with alien spam ("Hey, Earth! You can make your tentacle twice as big!" or "Dirty Nordics have fun with their probes qgoybbby" :D).

It's hard to know how to address that, IMHO. Of course, it must be a possibility, but the probability once again doesn't seem high - perhaps the author has seen V/ Species/ Quatermass once too often :).
 
Honestly, SETI is really a gigantic waste of time, money and resources. Second only to that big shiny space hotel NASA has floating around in near Earth orbit. Trying to pick up those kinds of signals out of the background radiation of space its self is the equivalent of standing on one side of a crowed bar and trying to pick up the voice of a single person on the other side. I guess if they ever manage to find something it will be worth it but my prediction is that the program will eventually fade away without finding anything concrete.
 
Oh my, it seems like someone just rented Species!




that big shiny space hotel NASA has floating around in near Earth orbit.
Hmph! We prefer "special olympics in space" thank you very much!
 
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