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Steorn & Claims of Free Energy

coldelephant said:
The process, as you can see from reading the above, is in fact a case of the group of scientists who the report was made to saying "I will try to prove you are right by conducting these experiments and observing and logging and reporting my findings to the group".

In other words, this can be summed up by the following;

Proof is in the puddding x Seeing is believing to the power of a group of scientists.
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A total misunderstanding of the process there, mate!

Other scientists will try to replicate an experiment to see if it does work as claimed. If the original calim was erroneous, it's good for the whole of science to have the errors exposed - nobody tries "to prove you are right". This is where Cold Fusion fell down - at first it looked interesting, but then few other researchers could replicate the results.

(But some people still research cold fusion, and it is just possible that it does work, given some tiny detail in the process that hasn't yet been pinned down.)

So to argue that all scientists are part of a self-supporting clique is as false as the idea that a small group of scientists form a powerful 'in-crowd' who automatically try to squash any innovation from outside.

As with all human endeavour, there is a very wide spectrum of attitudes in science, but on the whole science progresses and widens our understanding of the world.
 
I thought that the role of a scientist was to find out why a certain experiment didn't work?
 
That doesn't make sense, since an experiment can't really "fail". When you perform an experiment, you're trying to find out what happens when you do something.

Suppose you want to find out if dropping a brick from a height of ten feet onto a walnut will crack it. You may have a personal idea of what will happen. Either the walnut will break or it won't. If you think it will, and it doesn't, the experiment hasn't "failed", it's just shown you a result that did not meet your expectations. It's actually "succeeded" as it's shown that your original expectations were wrong, and now you can reassess them in light of the new data.

You might not have any expectations, in which case you would be experimenting to find what happened. In this case, you might then try to construct a theoretical framework to explain the results.

Of course, to do the experiment properly, you would have to drop the brick onto a number of nuts, and see what happened to each one. You might even try different bricks.
 
However, your supervisor may point out that 'informed consent' (on the part of the walnut(s)), has not been sought and your research has been suspendend, until the issue has been resolved.

And thinking on this further. Are there between-sample differences present in the research population? If so, this could confound the results of the research. And with respect to bricks, are they of uniform size, construction and weight?

As you can see from the following venn diagram....




:headbutt:
 
That's where the repeatability of experiments comes in...
 
Latest info on this... they're now in the process or organising the tests and have Flash animations on how these will work on the site.

Also, it's been confirmed that Steorn are paying third parties to mass produce large and small Steorn generators, so they have a product to sell as soon as the scientists have said "aye".

They seem to be surviving on investment they received in 2005 and earlier and are still saying they are not accepting anymore investment till the end of their bizarre verification process...

Certainly transpiring a bit different to Tom Beardon's MEG... I believe there was one working model that broke, then he needs several million dollars to go about recreating and further developing it?!?!

At the moment there's only two ways I can see this going... one, it's all a big lie, and I mean fib after fib, or two, they mean all of this with all their hearts... and it's all founded on a simple measurement error.

Oh, or they could have created a free energy generator of course... :/
 
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/s ... 28,00.html

A controversial technology company this week reiterated a series of audacious claims that have outraged scientists around the world.

The Dublin-based engineering company Steorn claims it has created a perpetual motion machine that uses a series of weights and magnets to generate "free energy". The system is claimed to break the laws of physics by producing more power than it consumes, and could potentially lead to the development of everlasting batteries.

Sean McCarthy, the chief executive of Steorn, told an audience in London that the company had already produced a prototype which ran independently for four weeks. He also claimed to have built another motor using the system which could produce enough energy to power a Porsche car.

Article continues
But despite its assertions, the company has refused to publicly display its technology, and the science community has yet to be convinced by Mr McCarthy's declaration. Many engineers and academics instead believe the claims are part of an elaborate marketing ploy.

The company has said "free energy" could be generated by a complex interaction of magnetic fields, but experts have likened the quest to alchemists' failed attempts to create gold from base metals.

As well as keeping its methods under wraps, Steorn has been widely attacked for not opting to take the traditional path of scientific review in respected journals. Instead, the firm has engaged a high-profile publicity machine to prove itself. Earlier this year it took out a full-page advertisement in the Economist magazine, looking for respected experts who were willing to review the technology and cast their vote on it.

A panel, whittled down to 12 successful applicants, will begin its examination in the new year and Mr McCarthy said he expected them to report their findings by autumn 2007.

"By the end it will be either, 'By jove, we've done it', or we'll sink into ignominy for the rest of our lives," he said. "The price of failure is extremely high, but the price of success is about a cleaner world, a better world."

The company wants to license the system to product manufacturers for use in powering everyday items such as mobile phones or television sets. It has also promised to give the technology away for use in developing countries as an alternative fuel source. Mr McCarthy admitted that the judging process was a "huge stunt", but said it was the only way to convince many scientists who have so far refused to discuss his ideas.

"The moment you believe this is possible you're an outcast, you're a heretic," he said. "We've been greeted with a fundamentalist reaction."

Martin Fleischmann, a leading advocate of "free energy" who put his own reputation on the line over similar claims in the late 1980s, told the Guardian that he did not believe the claims were credible.
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I've decided this lot are sincere.

Doesn't mean it works though... The thing which I find most unlikely is the fact that there's been a whole community playing with permanent magnets for years trying to achieve OU energy.

BTW, rumours at the moment are that one of their manufacturing partners is Philips. I'll believe it when I see it.
 
There's a new site at www.steorn.com

Crikey! The thing is now called "ORBO", not to be confused with "Orko" the magician from He Man and the Masters of the Universe.

Apparently full technical details will be available by the end of Q1 2007 and we're all gonna be living off free energy by next Christmas (or whatever).

the tenacity of these people is quite amazing. they seem to be marketing the whole thing very oddly. Reminds me of the way people market 3D web browser plugins or content management systems. It's starting to look a bit silly and at the very least smacks of vaporware.

This is, presumably, the turning point for human civilisation. this'll take us to the stars, cure our CO2 problems and revolutionise the third world. And it's called "ORBO". As everyone knows, the success of a project often hinges on a good name... if this is all our saviours can come up with, we're doomed :p

Plus the web site now works a lot less well in Safari on the Mac...
 
We have a date!

Endgadget said:
We're going to try and not read too much into this whole Friday the 13th date, and just give you the straight facts: Steorn promises to be "releasing the update on the Jury process and so on" of its seemingly first-law-of-thermodynamics-denying Orbo "free energy" product on April 13th. Steorn has been promising technical information about the invention and jury results for a while now, originally saying "first quarter" 2007. So if we use our imaginations -- as we apparently are exercising to the fullest to even entertain Steorn's Orbo claims -- we can just pretend April 13th is still Q1 and sit tight for the (hopefully) big reveal.

[Via Steorn Orbo, thanks Phil]
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He's managing to make even less sense than in the original claims....

link

stu edit - very long link compacted
 
lol.
I see that comments have been disabled on the video. Just when they were getting interesting.

PS. Thanks for editing down the link.
 
Kind of off-topic - but you never know! - anyone else see a little fellow in this Steorn web site image?

hl_drop.jpg
 
jefflovestone said:
Kind of off-topic - but you never know! - anyone else see a little fellow in this Steorn web site image?

hl_drop.jpg
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I do! Its The Mekon!
 
jefflovestone said:
Kind of off-topic - but you never know! - anyone else see a little fellow in this Steorn web site image?

hl_drop.jpg
Click to expand...
A leprechaun to my eyes...
 
I have to say, the Steorn thing sounds like a rehash of things that people have been talking about for a while but ultimately always fails to materialise, the cold fusion example being just one, but others include gravity reducing machiens.

On the previous example given of the gryoscope becoming seemlingly lighter once spun up, there isn't really a mystery there.

When a wheel is spinning, it ceases to be a wheel and is referred to as a gyroscope. When it is spinning fast, any force exerted on the plane of rotation will tend to act at 90 degrees. this is known as the gyroscopic effect.

For an example, if any of you have ever played a World War 1 flight sim, the snigle rotary engined aircraft behave very oddly indeed. When you want to go left, the input must be at 90 degrees, so instead of stick left to bank left, it is stick forward to bank left.

For anyone who rides bikes, the example is the same. When a bike is moving, it will be far easier to keep it uprioght as the gyroscopic effect is acting to maintain stability.
For motorcycles, this means that you have to overcome that to make them lean over to turn. The lighter the wheels, the less the gyroscopic effect and so the easier it is to turn, even if the bike itself is the saem weight (sprung mass).

So, with the Royal Society example, with the wheel spinning first of all in its axis and its axis turning about a centre point perpendiculalry, the sum of the forces could mean that it effectively is producing lift.

In the same way that an aircraft wing needs a linear flow of air over it to produce lift, when you spin up this device it produces a set of forces that are not in balance and the out of balance element is directed upwards, making it appear lighter as if it now needs less force added to allow it to leave the ground.

A
 
hokum6 said:
Update: Steorn is publically demoing its miracle device.
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That's worth posting in full:

Irish technology claims energy breakthrough

04.07.2007 - Today, the public have been invited to come and observe Orbo technology, developed by Irish company Steorn, which produces a free, constant supply of energy that will change history if it does what it claims.

Orbo technology, which Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn said was discovered accidentally, theoretically produces energy from nowhere using magnetics.

“The law of conservation of energy has been very reliable for 300 years, however it’s missing one variable from the equation, and that’s time,” said McCarthy.

McCarthy explained to Silicon Republic that Orbo technology works on the basis that occurrences in magnetic fields do not happen instantaneously, and are therefore not subject to time in the way that, say, gravity is.

This time variance allows the Orbo platform to generate and consistently produce power, going against the law of conservation of energy which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

“This is as big a claim as you can possibly make in the world of technology and science,” said McCarthy.

“Five years ago if I was watching this story from a distance I would be thinking it was complete bull. Having said that we are in absolutely no doubt that this works.”

Steorn, based in Dublin, was founded in 2000 and employs 22 people.

Last year the company took out an advertisement, publicly inviting the scientific community to come and test the revolutionary claims of its Orbo technology. Scientists have been putting the energy machine through rigorous testing since January.

Meanwhile, academic testing aside, McCarthy said that he wants the public to observe it too. Today at 6pm in the Kinetica Museum in London, Orbo will be unveiled and will run for ten days.

McCarthy said in order to ensure complete transparency, the self-rotating wheel will be housed in clear plastic, allowing members of the public to “inspect it for a hidden battery”.

The Orbo will also be viewable live on the internet from 6pm this evening at www.steorn.com/orbo/demo with four webcams focused on the machine 24 hours a day.

If this technology is proved to work and be transferable and marketable, it will change not only how we think, but how we live.

“It’s too good to be true but it is true,” said McCarthy, “It will have such an impact on everything we do.”

“The only analogy I can give is if you had absolute proof that God wasn’t real,” said McCarthy.

By Marie Boran
 
However, there's something wrong with the demo webpage - it won't load.

But deleting /demo from the end does bring up the Orbo site, FWIW.

PS: From http://www.steorn.com/Default.aspx

View the online demonstration here at 6pm Eastern Time (ET).
If that is ET, USA, then there are a few hours to go... :?

But why use US time, if the demo is in London...?
 
The demo time, both the original and the revised EST, have come and gone. I'm assuming it's a PR stunt for a movie or game, or an attempt at getting venture capital. They have no patents, a company with a history of marketing and not one of these alleged scientists who investigated the claims has come forward.

Colour me surprised ;)
 
This from the bottom of their page,

We are experiencing some technical difficulties with the demo unit in London. Our initial assessment indicates that this is probably due to the intense heat from the camera lighting. We have commenced a technical assessment and will provide an update later today. As a consequence, Kinetica will not be open to the public today (5th July). We apologise for this delay and appreciate your patience.
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The Irish Times have this to say.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaki ... king46.htm

Technology developed by an Irish firm that allegedly defies basic laws of physics to produce free power today goes on public display for the first time.

Steorn is challenging worldwide cynicism over its claims to have stumbled upon a revolutionary discovery that creates clean, constant energy and could end the global fuel crisis.

While 22 scientists continue their exhaustive tests on the Orbo technology the inventors are asking the public to come and see a demonstration for themselves at Kinetica Museum, Spitalfields Market, London.

A live working demonstration will be streamed on the internet from 6pm tonight. It can be viewed on the web from four different camera angles, before opening to visitors on Thursday.

Sean McCarthy, chief executive of Steorn, said: "What we are showing basically is a very simplified version of the technology. It's virtually all-clear plastic and magnets so we are demonstrating obviously that there is no battery hidden and so on. What the system will be doing is literally lifting a weight, demonstrating work being done for free."

Mr McCarthy said the company decided against using the technology to illuminate a light-bulb because the use of wires would attract further suspicion from a scientific community that has denounced the invention as heretical.

The technology, based on the interaction of magnetic fields, and yet to be conclusively proven or declared a hoax, created a stir after Steorn placed an advertisement in the Economist magazine last year challenging the world's scientists to test its claims.

The company picked 22 of the world's leading scientists from Europe and the US for the review, which started in January and is not expected to be completed before the end of the year.

Mr McCarthy insisted Steorn are contractually obliged to publish whatever the scientists conclude in full, adding that the €8 million invested in the technology to date and the company's reputation were at stake.

"Obviously Steorn and Sean McCarthy would never recover if there is a negative result here. But we don't see that as even an outside possibility," he said.
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I hope they've taken big oil sabotage into account.
 
Steorn News

Perpetual motion machine hits 'technical' snag
Demonstration delayed as device overheats

Iain Thomson, vnunet.com 05 Jul 2007
The planned demonstration of a device touted as being able to generate free power using the Earth's magnetic field has been put on hold after "technical difficulties".

Irish company Steorn claims that its Orbo machine will produce free, clean power to electrical generators.

The firm took out a full page advert in The Economist last year asking scientists to test its invention.

Steorn had planned a week-long demonstration of the technology at London's Kinetica Museum yesterday.

"We are experiencing some technical difficulties with the demo unit in London," said the company in a statement.

"Our initial assessment indicates that this is probably due to the intense heat from the camera lighting.

"We have commenced a technical assessment and will provide an update later today. As a consequence, Kinetica will not be open to the public today [5 July]. We apologise for this delay and appreciate your patience."

If the Orbo device lives up to the company's claims, it would violate the law of energy conservation which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed but migrates to different forms.

Steorn claims that power is generated using "time variant magneto-mechanical interactions" that occur naturally.

Orbo's efficacy has been greeted with worldwide scepticism. The panel of experts volunteering to study the technology are not due to report until the end of this year.

Permalink to this story
www.vnunet.com/2193572


Mods feel free to merge 8)
 
misterwibble said:
Hang on, I'm getting a precognitive flash.
This story will continue to bounce around the net for the next few years, with occasional press releases saying that developments of some kind are imminent and then it'll go silent.
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The above quotation is now almost a year old. So I have to ask you, Mr. Wibble, do you do private readings? <g>
 
"Free Energy" seems to come in two flavors:

1. Energy which is "free" in the sense that it can be generate from nothing. That seems to impossibly violate the Laws of Thermodynamics.

2. Energy which is "freely" distributed throughout the Universe, the motive power of the Universe, and which can theoretically be tapped. That strikes me as more reasonable than No. 1.

What it all comes down to is "Can the power which throws mighty Jupiter around the Sun power my electric shaver?"

But the answer to that question may well be that the words "energy" and "throw" as used here are both very misleading. Jupiter is falling around the Sun with no genuine "power" being involved.
 
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