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The 15-Minute City Conspiracy

But of course this is going against the Garden city idea.

That communities should be of mixed social groups.
 

This neighborhood is ‘banning’ cars for all residents — but it’s offering them a thought-provoking deal in return​


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/t...-thought-provoking-deal-in-return/ar-AA19Czo3

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The community will still make ample use of cars but in the form of rideshares via Lyft and car sharing via Envoy, a community-based electric car-sharing service and platform. Both companies are official partners of the project.

However, personal cars will not be allowed, which means that Culdesac Tempe will not have to devote any space to parking, creating “ample open space for a large dog park and pool.”

Residents will also have access to over 100 Bird scooters, over 1,000 bike parking spots, and free rides on the metro.

The idea of the 15-minute city — an urban area where residents can reach all of their daily needs, such as stores, work, school, and cultural sites, within 15 minutes by bike, on foot, or personal mobility devices — has been gaining popularity recently. Tempe Culdesac is claiming to be three times as good as that ideal, calling itself a “five-minute city.”
 
kamalktk said:

This neighborhood is ‘banning’ cars for all residents — but it’s offering them a thought-provoking deal in return​


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/t...-thought-provoking-deal-in-return/ar-AA19Czo3

--------------------------------------------------------------
The community will still make ample use of cars but in the form of rideshares via Lyft and car sharing via Envoy, a community-based electric car-sharing service and platform. Both companies are official partners of the project.

However, personal cars will not be allowed, which means that Culdesac Tempe will not have to devote any space to parking, creating “ample open space for a large dog park and pool.”

Residents will also have access to over 100 Bird scooters, over 1,000 bike parking spots, and free rides on the metro.

The idea of the 15-minute city — an urban area where residents can reach all of their daily needs, such as stores, work, school, and cultural sites, within 15 minutes by bike, on foot, or personal mobility devices — has been gaining popularity recently. Tempe Culdesac is claiming to be three times as good as that ideal, calling itself a “five-minute city.”
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No use for people who want to do DIY projects or do a lot of shopping in one go.
 
kamalktk said:

This neighborhood is ‘banning’ cars for all residents — but it’s offering them a thought-provoking deal in return​


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/t...-thought-provoking-deal-in-return/ar-AA19Czo3

--------------------------------------------------------------
The community will still make ample use of cars but in the form of rideshares via Lyft and car sharing via Envoy, a community-based electric car-sharing service and platform. Both companies are official partners of the project.

However, personal cars will not be allowed, which means that Culdesac Tempe will not have to devote any space to parking, creating “ample open space for a large dog park and pool.”

Residents will also have access to over 100 Bird scooters, over 1,000 bike parking spots, and free rides on the metro.

The idea of the 15-minute city — an urban area where residents can reach all of their daily needs, such as stores, work, school, and cultural sites, within 15 minutes by bike, on foot, or personal mobility devices — has been gaining popularity recently. Tempe Culdesac is claiming to be three times as good as that ideal, calling itself a “five-minute city.”
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Because nothing says, “Let’s take the kids to the seaside”, or “How about an impulse picnic?”, or “We need to visit the in-laws in Ayrshire”, or “Our new chest of drawers has arrived at the shop” like a shared, electric car.

maximus otter
 
Kondoru said:
But of course this is going against the Garden city idea.

That communities should be of mixed social groups.
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Floyd1 said:
Depends on your view though. Not everyone likes, or wants to mix with other 'groups'. I'm not sure I would if I had the choice.
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stay-on-topic.jpg
 
Mythopoeika said:
No use for people who want to do DIY projects or do a lot of shopping in one go.
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Sorry, Myth, but I don't understand your comment. I feel like it is more a gripe and is not really explaining a thoughtful critique as to what issues might occur with this idea. Why would having access to a shared vehicle prevent these activities? If you are thinking that DIY projects might need a larger vehicle (though we don't know what the communal vehicle is), I only have a car, so if I were in need of boards or bulky materials for a project, my car can't accommodate them. I have to make other arrangements to have them delivered.

How do people who only have public transportation manage these type of activities?

Private or shared vehicle has no real bearing on activities that people might engage in.

I can understand the issues with a shared vehicle if many people want it at the same time.

Sometimes, I wouldn't mind having a shared vehicle - lower maintenance and fuel costs, not having to drive myself. With the possible downside (which I don't really know about) of insuring such vehicle or, if people were able to book it and they drive it, the wear and tear on the vehicle from multiple drivers.

My work agency has company owned vans for transporting people. Every employee (100+) can drive the vans. I can't imagine how the insurance is figured out. And yes people have had accidents with them.
 
As I found with hiring a van, some companies engage in 'surge pricing', whereby when demand is higher than usual, the prices go up.
One hire company wanted over £600 for a van for a weekend when they would normally charge around £120.
I can imagine the amount of stiffing/gouging that would go on around public holidays etc if there were was no private ownership of vehicles.
 
brownmane said:
Sorry, Myth, but I don't understand your comment. I feel like it is more a gripe and is not really explaining a thoughtful critique as to what issues might occur with this idea. Why would having access to a shared vehicle prevent these activities? If you are thinking that DIY projects might need a larger vehicle (though we don't know what the communal vehicle is), I only have a car, so if I were in need of boards or bulky materials for a project, my car can't accommodate them. I have to make other arrangements to have them delivered.

How do people who only have public transportation manage these type of activities?

Private or shared vehicle has no real bearing on activities that people might engage in.

I can understand the issues with a shared vehicle if many people want it at the same time.

Sometimes, I wouldn't mind having a shared vehicle - lower maintenance and fuel costs, not having to drive myself. With the possible downside (which I don't really know about) of insuring such vehicle or, if people were able to book it and they drive it, the wear and tear on the vehicle from multiple drivers.

My work agency has company owned vans for transporting people. Every employee (100+) can drive the vans. I can't imagine how the insurance is figured out. And yes people have had accidents with them.
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If it's a shared vehicle, you may have problems with fitting in items that you have purchased, especially if there are other people in the car with you. Also, as with all DIY projects, you may have to pop back to the store for more things.
I guess if the vehicle is a timeshare, then you can drive it by yourself without other people in the car (if nobody else needs it).
Probably hiring a vehicle for a day is a better way to ensure that you alone get to use the vehicle for whatever purpose.
If all you want is small items or things like machinery, then you may be better off just getting them delivered via an online retailer.
I used public transport for carrying a lot of heavy stuff back in the day, when I was much younger. I even bought flatpack furniture and carried it on a bus, doing myself an injury in the process. Not only can I not do that stuff these days (because... old), but I suspect that bus drivers now wouldn't let me take it on board.
 
I expect that the suggestion to 'hire a vehicle when you need one' is just replacing private ownership with a model in which the vehicles are owned by a private company, which makes money out of the hiring of the vehicles. There won't be any fewer vehicles on the roads.
Also, these hire companies like to avoid having older vehicles on their fleet, so replace them once they get a couple of years old or exceed a certain mileage, say 60,000 miles on the clock, which is hardly 'green'.
Whereas a vehicle in private ownership is more likely to have a long span of usage.
And also, I've had hire vehicles that have had such a hard life, and been abused so much, that they aren't even really fit for the road any longer when they're only a year old.
 
Trevp666 said:
I expect that the suggestion to 'hire a vehicle when you need one' is just replacing private ownership with a model in which the vehicles are owned by a private company, which makes money out of the hiring of the vehicles. There won't be any fewer vehicles on the roads.
Also, these hire companies like to avoid having older vehicles on their fleet, so replace them once they get a couple of years old or exceed a certain mileage, say 60,000 miles on the clock, which is hardly 'green'.
Whereas a vehicle in private ownership is more likely to have a long span of usage.
And also, I've had hire vehicles that have had such a hard life, and been abused so much, that they aren't even really fit for the road any longer when they're only a year old.
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They also won't want vehicles sitting around doing nothing so you can bet that you are unlikely to get the thing when you want it. Also how far away are you from the pick up/ drop off point?
 
Although this is getting OT, I live in an area which has a community of old order Mennonites. They use horses and carriages. They do have, maybe one, shared vehicle which, as much as I understand (which is minimal), is used for access to larger urban areas which aren't safe or accommodate for the horse and carriage mode of transport.

I imagine one person owns the vehicle and would have driver's license

There is nothing stating in the earlier article how this communal ride sharing would be designed. People here, seem to be making a lot of assumptions based on no clear information.
 
brownmane said:
Although this is getting OT, I live in an area which has a community of old order Mennonites. They use horses and carriages. They do have, maybe one, shared vehicle which, as much as I understand (which is minimal), is used for access to larger urban areas which aren't safe or accommodate for the horse and carriage mode of transport.

I imagine one person owns the vehicle and would have driver's license

There is nothing stating in the earlier article how this communal ride sharing would be designed. People here, seem to be making a lot of assumptions based on no clear information.
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That's just it. Nobody knows what form 'car sharing' would take, or how available the cars would be. How long would the wait be?
Car sharing would be different in each region, according to density of population.
 
brownmane said:
Although this is getting OT, I live in an area which has a community of old order Mennonites. They use horses and carriages. They do have, maybe one, shared vehicle which, as much as I understand (which is minimal), is used for access to larger urban areas which aren't safe or accommodate for the horse and carriage mode of transport.

I imagine one person owns the vehicle and would have driver's license

There is nothing stating in the earlier article how this communal ride sharing would be designed. People here, seem to be making a lot of assumptions based on no clear information.
Click to expand...
That's true @brownmane. However I'll make one assumption which is in the UK at least it will have to make money for someone, probably not those who need to use it but rather those who are providing it.
 
The sign of things to come?

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods: Is this the UK's most abused traffic bollard?

It is probably the most abused bollard in the UK.

It is blocking the road as part of a Low Traffic Neighbourhood - an LTN - and has been repeatedly run over, beaten, bent, burnt and, finally, stolen.

Thousands of protesters marched in Oxford in February after the council announced plans for new restrictions on traffic through the centre of the city.

There was a flurry of claims on social media that the restrictions are evidence of a sinister global plot to limit our freedom to travel.

Since then, there have been protests in Cambridge, Bath and Thetford - while in Colchester, a council meeting to discuss proposals for more sustainable transport was disrupted by noisy protestors.

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65243274
 
Floyd1 said:
The sign of things to come?

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods: Is this the UK's most abused traffic bollard?

It is probably the most abused bollard in the UK.

It is blocking the road as part of a Low Traffic Neighbourhood - an LTN - and has been repeatedly run over, beaten, bent, burnt and, finally, stolen.

Thousands of protesters marched in Oxford in February after the council announced plans for new restrictions on traffic through the centre of the city.

There was a flurry of claims on social media that the restrictions are evidence of a sinister global plot to limit our freedom to travel.

Since then, there have been protests in Cambridge, Bath and Thetford - while in Colchester, a council meeting to discuss proposals for more sustainable transport was disrupted by noisy protestors.

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65243274
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I do hope it's an idea that doesn't spread. Nobody had a public vote on this.
 
I do hope it spreads. We must reduce our reliance on cars.
Zuhura Plummer, an Oxford resident who has campaigned in favour of the city's LTNs as part of a group called Oxfordshire Liveable Streets, sees things very differently.
"What about the freedom to be able to cycle down the street without getting knocked off your bike? What about the freedom of asthmatics to have better air quality?" she asks.
"We've given up a lot of different freedoms for the one freedom to drive your car wherever you want at any time."
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eburacum said:
I do hope it spreads. We must reduce our reliance on cars.
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What would we use instead? Not everybody is fit enough to pedal a bike.
Propose a solution.
 
ramonmercado said:
Cars shouldn't be able to use every convenient residential street as a ratrun. Those who reside there will still have access be they motorists, cyclists, mobility scooter users, wheelchair users or pedestrians.
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Disagree 100%.

They whole idea of cutting through side roads is what previously kept cities on the move.

Now that so many LTNs have blocked these side roads has forced traffic onto main roads where it sits in traffic jams, adding to traffic fumes and journey times

@eburacum

Motability cars are still cars.
Even if electric they rely on power generated from burning fossil fuels.

And there are massive discrepancies between areas for public transport within England alone, never mind Europe.

In London, we are well looked after.

But I can tell you that the most vulnerable ... the learning difficulty, partially sighted, hard of walking people...need public transport.
Espeically for them and their carers, which are petrol powered mini buses finded by local councils.

I live near several supermarkets...and use a car to visit them out of common sense.
How else can I carry home six or seven bags of shopping?

Though if I just need a few items in one or two bags I will walk.
 
Floyd1 said:
The sign of things to come?

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods: Is this the UK's most abused traffic bollard?

It is probably the most abused bollard in the UK.

It is blocking the road as part of a Low Traffic Neighbourhood - an LTN - and has been repeatedly run over, beaten, bent, burnt and, finally, stolen.

Thousands of protesters marched in Oxford in February after the council announced plans for new restrictions on traffic through the centre of the city.

There was a flurry of claims on social media that the restrictions are evidence of a sinister global plot to limit our freedom to travel.

Since then, there have been protests in Cambridge, Bath and Thetford - while in Colchester, a council meeting to discuss proposals for more sustainable transport was disrupted by noisy protestors.

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65243274
Click to expand...

"the value of fines issued inside LTNs had increased from £700,000 in the year 2019-20, to almost £70m in 2021-22."

Ah! So that's what it's all about!
 
As someone who has avoided cities all my life (mostly lived in villages) even for visits, all I can say is that the reasons not to visit just keep growing!
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Reminded me of the catastrophic Watford narrow bollards.
Even the police and ambulances have fallen foul of that idiotic system.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-59641534
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They have (or had) rising bollards in Cambridge city centre. About 20 years ago, I got lost and nearly fell afoul of this idiocy - but - haha - as luck would have it, I was following a bus, so the bollard didn't rise until I had gone past. Didn't repeat my mistake.
 
ramonmercado said:
I can only repeat my opinion that residential streets should not be used as ratruns, people have a right to quality of life.
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And for me quality of life means not sitting in a traffic jam.
What about the people who live in properties on main roads?
What about them?
The idea of a "Rat Run" is nebulous.
If someone is so averse to traffic they should live in a cul de sac in a village or move to Sark
 
The social and environmental costs of using a motor car needs to be properly accounted for. Currently it is too easy and too cheap to just jump in your car and drive somewhere, ruining the environment as you do so. If you are disabled, or old, then charges for car use can be removed, or reduced; but otherwise the true cost of a car economy must include the damage to the urban and rural environment.

Britain, especially England, is far too small to support endless traffic movements.
 
eburacum said:
The social and environmental costs of using a motor car needs to be properly accounted for. Currently it is too easy and too cheap to just jump in your car and drive somewhere, ruining the environment as you do so. If you are disabled, or old, then charges for car use can be removed, or reduced; but otherwise the true cost of a car economy must include the damage to the urban and rural environment.

Britain, especially England, is far too small to support endless traffic movements.
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Think about what would happen to the British economy.
 
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