The Al Gore, Uri Geller & Enya connection

[stu neville]

LOL !

 

[Cult_of_Mana]

I guess the points that Adam Rang and Nwoisevil are trying to make are that though David Icke may be a raving lunatic, he is also capable of sober lucidity. Don't let the crazy ravings cloud his true message.
Permission to flame if I'm barking up the wrong tree - Adam Rang and Nwoisevil only.

 

[Anonymous]

I guess the points that Adam Rang and Nwoisevil are trying to make are that though David Icke may be a raving lunatic, he is also capable of sober lucidity. Don't let the crazy ravings cloud his true message.
Permission to flame if I'm barking up the wrong tree - Adam Rang and Nwoisevil only.

I wouldn't doubt that David Icke's writings may contain grains of truth. The problem with them is "how do you tell?" In the past, I've used the analogy of a stopped watch being right twice a day. It doesn't make it a useful watch, however.

 

[DerekH16]

One viewpoint is that, if Icke uses arrant nonsense at any point in his argument, his argument fails.

The other is, that valid points remain valid irrespective of the rest of the argument.

Personally, I think Icke is a plonker.... but that's only my viewpoint....

 

[Anonymous]

In my opinion anyone who dis-misses Icke is an idiot. Worse that that... there sheep. Why? Becuase Ironically they have done the exact thing that Icke has told them to do. Icke tells us...

1. You can either read my books and find out the truth...blah blah blah.

or...

2. You can close the book and return to your present belief systmen.

....and remarkedbly poeple actually follow Ickes command to the letter. There is a third option however that Icke doesnt mention....

3. You can use your own mind.

Icke says that all his work is to viewed as one to understand how the global agenda fits together.... what Icke has really done is assemble work from all the major conspiracyt theorists and lump it all together with his own little theory of the lizards. If your clever you will look at Ickes work however and sort the info from the rubbish and perhaps come away a little more enlightened.....

 

[harlequin2005]

Rooting thru the list of links (News) one can find some really interesting stuff. The Skeptical Ecologist was one example, although the design of the page REALLY doesn't lend itself to staying long. I guess the lizards have all the best web designers

Link http://www.davidicke.net/newsroom/europe/denmark/012502a.html

Very good piece on scientific witchhuntery that Charles Fort would have loved. If you take the piece seriously, and I can see no reason not to, its most disturbing around how much Greenpeace et al work form a skewed paradigm to justify their existance... You start out trying to say the planet and wind up preserving your luncheon vouchers and travel expenses

8¬)

 

[DerekH16]

In my opinion anyone who dis-misses Icke is an idiot.

Maybe. However, I can spell 'dismiss'.

Worse that that... there sheep.

Where sheep? Oh, they're sheep.

Why? Becuase Ironically they have done the exact thing that Icke has told them to do. Icke tells us...

1. You can either read my books and find out the truth...blah blah blah.

or...

2. You can close the book and return to your present belief systmen.

....and remarkedbly poeple actually follow Ickes command to the letter.

Ah, right, given a choice between 'read the book' and 'don't read the book' - both 'Ickes command' (sic) - it is somehow remarkable that people do one or the other.

But, of course:

There is a third option however that Icke doesnt mention....

3. You can use your own mind.

To decide whether or not to read the book, obviously....

Icke says that all his work is to viewed as one to understand how the global agenda fits together....

And, therefore, if one part of his argument is nonsensical, his argument fails. Lizards, anyone?

what Icke has really done is assemble work from all the major conspiracyt theorists and lump it all together with his own little theory of the lizards. If your clever you will look at Ickes work however and sort the info from the rubbish and perhaps come away a little more enlightened.....

Enlightened? Yes - don't shell out good cash on books written by the one-time self-proclaimed reincarnation of the Son of God....

Mr. Icke has assembled work from all the major conspiracy theorists - so why not read it at source, instead of wading through lots of extraneous material to find the occasional nugget of information?

Conspiracy theories seem, to me, to tend to be somewhat extreme and paranoid, as well as requiring the complicity of far too many people. I am, however, willing to believe that there may be something behind them.

Mr. Icke, however, does the entire field a disservice with his Sci-Fi ramblings.

 

[harlequin2005]

Let him who is without typographic or grammatical error cast the first stone...

8¬)

 

[Anonymous]

Thankyou all

This has been fantastically entertaining.

I was waiting for Icke to come out and get all 'See? I told you so!' When the Queen Mum had to go into hospital for a blood transfusion.

I find it very difficult to get serious about Icke. I watched the TV series 'V' when I was younger. I also have to admit that his exhortations to read his books get translated in my head as 'give me money'. I also worry about anyone who can use the definite article in front of the word 'truth' in reference to his own theories and mean it.

Enya? She did the piece of music 'Boadicea' which was used as the theme music for the film adaptation of Stephen King's novel 'Sleepwalkers'. There's some useless information for you. And Uri Geller has just bought Exeter football club and is talking about getting Michael Jackson over to play a gig. He also made an attempt to buy Rollright when that was up for sale some years back. Try fitting all that together.

Sam

 

[Glensheen'sGirl~]

Let him who is without typographic or grammatical error cast the first stone...

8¬)

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?

 

[Anonymous]

Ah, right, given a choice between 'read the book' and 'don't read the book' - both 'Ickes command' (sic) - it is somehow remarkable that people do one or the other.

The choice is to believe what he says without question or ignor everything he says. Which one are you Derek?

Enlightened? Yes - don't shell out good cash on books written by the one-time self-proclaimed reincarnation of the Son of God....

Icke said that we were all the sons and duaghters of god becuase we were created by him. This is a belief held by, I think, around 4 Billion poeple on this planet.

Mr. Icke has assembled work from all the major conspiracy theorists - so why not read it at source, instead of wading through lots of extraneous material to find the occasional nugget of information?

Then do exactly that. Icke lists all his scources for you.

Conspiracy theories seem, to me, to tend to be somewhat extreme and paranoid, as well as requiring the complicity of far too many people. I am, however, willing to believe that there may be something behind them.

Good for you. But how about looking at them case by case like any normal person?

 

[harlequin2005]

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?

I prefer the King James Version, the language was so much nicer.

Apropos, 4 billion people. Something of the point of conspiracy theory is that what the masses are told to believe is almost always pig-wind, and shouldn't be beleived. Precisley because it is believed by 4 billion people and is promulgated by both church and state should mean that the whole idea is suspect. Too many people are telling us its right

8¬)

 

[Anonymous]

I've read most of Ickes books. (Though I admit that I haven't read "The Children of the Matrix," partially because I *have* read most of his other books)

I read "The Truth Vibrations" just after it appeared. The impression that I was left with was that Icke was in the middle of some severe psychological disturbance. For example, his eyes were led to a specific book in a bookshop because *he* was meant to read it, and it was important for *him*. What then followed was that *he* was the chosen one, with pretty any event revolving around *him*. *He* was going to set the world to rights by walking around various mystical sites and fixing the energy flows that were found there. By doing this, he managed to prevent earthquakes, and other disasters that were going to befall mankind.

Since then I have read, for my sins, his other books. (Except "The Children of the Matrix.") They are an uncritical mish-mash of conspiracy theories. He says that you can take them or leave them. After applying option 3, "Use your own mind", I came to the conclusion that there was little of value contained within his pages. When confronted by strings of inaccuracies and fictions, there is no point in carrying on. If the signal to noise had been *a lot* higher, then possibly there may have been some utility in his books, but on present eveidence, there is none.

I might even go as far as to say that never mind not having a positive influence on the subject of conspiracy theories, his influence has been to its detriment as all of the theories espoused by Icke become tarred by the same brush. Ad hominem arguments are fallacious, but what a hominem.

 

[rynner2]

I wonder what Adam (and Icke) will make of a vision reported on this thread ? (Post by Dave Vader.)

Apparently we are all part of some immense reptile - a dragon? :eek!!!!:

 

[DerekH16]

The choice is to believe what he says without question or ignor everything he says. Which one are you Derek?

Which is not what was stated previously. Stated thus, there is obviously also the choice to read it and then ignore it, in whole or part. (Or argue about it, if you wish.) I chose not to believe without question, but to question belief.

Icke said that we were all the sons and duaghters of god becuase we were created by him. This is a belief held by, I think, around 4 Billion poeple on this planet.

If you are referring to the Xtian God, somewhat less than 4 billion, but irrelevant, since Icke, at one time, claimed to be the reincarnation of JC, not a belief held by the vast majority of Xtians.

Then do exactly that. Icke lists all his scources for you.

So his books aren't totally useless

Good for you. But how about looking at them case by case like any normal person?

And what makes you think I haven't?

Which is how I came to the conclusion that there may be some truth in the various conspiracy theories, but many of the alleged 'facts' are either paranoid fantasy or inconsistent with themselves, other theories, or reality.

 

[DerekH16]

Can you provide a scource for that?

1. I recall seeing him on a chat show - Wogan, possibly.

2. Here. - there may be others, but google turned up 3,890 results when I searched for "'david icke' jesus", and this was about 23rd on the list - I didn't see any point in spending the rest of the night looking for further corroboration.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure about that, poeple make a living off taking Ickes comments out of contect, especially his son of god ones.

[EDIT]

David Icke never said he was the incarnation of Jesus Christ. Annisdoti (?) was an Icke-watcher, she'll (i hope) confirm this. What he actually said was that he was the son of the 'godhead' and went on to ellaborate by saying that we were all the sons and daughters of God. I'm not to sure who would want to go out of their way to change Icke's words like that in order to make him look stupid. hmm.. i wonder.

 

[DerekH16]

I'm not sure about that, poeple make a living off taking Ickes comments out of contect, especially his son of god ones.

You asked for a source, I gave you a source. Pity it doesn't suit you....

 

[Anonymous]

The scource was bullshit thats why :blah:

 

[DerekH16]

The scource was bullshit thats why :blah:

Then go search for yourself. Useful search items include 'Jesus' and 'Wogan'. (Maybe by the time you've done that you'll have matured a bit as well...)

 

[Anonymous]

I dont have time to look for something that doesnt exist.

 

[harlequin2005]

Although I think Adam's assesment of 'bullshit' lacks poetry, I am having problems finding the any primary source that transcribes the event of DI's comment that he was Jesus, just reporting that he said it, which could mean anything. The truth is a queer animal, in that it lokks different with each description. Even when we 'see' what happened, unless it raw feed or we're standing in the place at the time, editing can do a lot. Any one seens an unedited transcription? Even though I don;t beleive that DI is right, the 'I am Jesus' thing seems to be one of those things 'everyone' knows, but no-one can show me direct proof. Almost a UL

8¬)

 

[stu neville]

I dont have time to look for something that doesnt exist.

But it does exist Adam: I watched that Wogan programme myself, first time around and verbatim repeats: when Wogan remarked that people were laughing at him, not with him, Icke pointed out that people laughed at Christ - Wogan then asked him directly if Icke was Christ, to which Icke replied "Yes", and then went on to elaborate that we are all "Children of God".

Incidentally:

The choice is to believe what he says without question or ignor everything he says. Which one are you Derek?

Kindly elaborate, Adam. Precisely why is it not possible to accept the more cogent argumants whilst taking the more tangential stuff with a large pinch of salt?

Stu

 

[Anonymous]

Icke made a few comments which could have easily be taken out of context on that show. "Poeple would have said the same to Jesus, who are you? Your just a carpenters son." but after the show Icke did clear up the matter by explaining it further. There's so much rubbish on the internet about Icke that searching through google would be useless until I find some origonal scources, like a transcript of the show.

Stu, you've taken that out of context. Read the rest of the thread.

 

[stu neville]

Stu, you've taken that out of context. Read the rest of the thread.

I have.

It still doesn't explain why you can't just agree with some of Icke's propositions and not others: the all or nothing doctrine smacks (to me) of fundie type zeal.

 

[Anonymous]

He's 15 years old!

 

[stu neville]

He's 15 years old!

So was I when I was 15.

 

[Anonymous]

It still doesn't explain why you can't just agree with some of Icke's propositions and not others: the all or nothing doctrine smacks (to me) of fundie type zeal.

You can do that. Its what I did. Its what I want poeple to do. The all or nothing doctrine was Ickes, not mine.

 

[stu neville]

You can do that. Its what I did. Its what I want poeple to do. The all or nothing doctrine was Ickes, not mine.

Ok, I didn't realise that.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure about that, poeple make a living off taking Ickes comments out of contect, especially his son of god ones.

[EDIT]

David Icke never said he was the incarnation of Jesus Christ. Annisdoti (?) was an Icke-watcher, she'll (i hope) confirm this. What he actually said was that he was the son of the 'godhead' and went on to ellaborate by saying that we were all the sons and daughters of God. I'm not to sure who would want to go out of their way to change Icke's words like that in order to make him look stupid. hmm.. i wonder.

Yup. Adam R is right. I'm no fan of Icke, but he has always been careful to explain that he is not the reincarnation of JC, just part of the same soul-group. That sounds like nit-picking - and it is to somebody who doesn't share his New Age mind-set - but to him it is a major difference. If he actually did believe he was JC, he'd have come right out and said so, very clearly.