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The Beast Of Gévaudan

oldrover said:
What do you think it was?
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Like in an old classic mystery novel, I think that all suspects are guilty! :)

Seriously, I think that there are many characters playing at once : the huge hybrid stray war dog, the saddistic serial killer disguised, wolves and hysteria, all on the same place and time, all blame as if it was the very same supernatural beast. I think it's very hard to find a single answer simply because there are many.
 
chicorea said:
Like in an old classic mystery novel, I think that all suspects are guilty! :)

Seriously, I think that there are many characters playing at once : the huge hybrid stray war dog, the saddistic serial killer disguised, wolves and hysteria, all on the same place and time, all blame as if it was the very same supernatural beast. I think it's very hard to find a single answer simply because there are many.
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I think that's very likely. As I don't speak French, I'm prevented from looking into this, but I do find it very interesting, as I do most classic cases like this.

The first time I remember reading about it was in a book on dogs, in which it stated that the beast was most likely some sort of fighting dog. As I say though, not being able to read French prevents me from looking into it, but I find the idea of an animal being involved surprising.

Earlier in this thread there have been much more unlikely animal candidates proposed, from Mesonychids, to thylacines, none of which are possible. I'd agree though, if there was an animal involved, dogs are the only real candidates. Plus or minus some wolf attacks that got lumped in.
 
It's a little strange that it seems to show no fear not running off
even after being knocked down by by gun shot 2 or 3 times befor
it took the hint and ran off, unless it was that rabid it had no fear
 
RaM said:
It's a little strange that it seems to show no fear not running off
even after being knocked down by by gun shot 2 or 3 times befor
it took the hint and ran off, unless it was that rabid it had no fear
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Or if it was a war dog that went stray. One of the hypotheses is that a dog that fought the Seven Yars War went stray and kept the taste for human flesh.
 
MrRING said:
Recent coverage of the tale:
https://www.history.com/news/beast-gevaudan-france-theories
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An overall correct approach of the story. I agree with the conclusion that we'll never really know what happened.

Some remarks :

The creature killed by Chastel was reportedly analyzed by at least one naturalist, that confirmed the animal wasn't a wolf. This animal was embalmed and sent to Paris, but it was... lost in the middle of the trip.

A remarkable behaviour of the Beast was that it advanced through the herd without causing panic among the animals and aimed directly the humans (mostly children or young women).

Effectively, the first account about the Beast was made by the catholic Church, what created the superimposion of a beast and a Beast : a zoological (cryptozoological?) phenomenon and a punishment of God (the Gévaudan was a Protestant region during the previous centuries). Once this confusion was stabilished, we could never separate fact and fiction again.

My personal opinion is that there are many phenomena happening around the same time : an hybrid wolf-dog (a war dog, maybe?) and an opportunistic serial killer with an armoured costume, for exemple. The article fails to say that the beast (or the Beast ?) was seen almost at the same time in two distant points and that Chastel shot an animal and its puppies.

Anyway, there will always be discussion about the possible culprits.

If somebody is curious about the conspirational side of the story and can read in French language, I would suggest Abel Chevelley's "La Bête du Gévaudan", a proof that conspiracies were well alive even in the belle époque.
 
The History Guy Podcast: Historic Cryptids

The Beast of Gevaudan

 
Old thread but I recall the film Brotherhood of the Wolf....I enjoyed that and would watch it again but alas it';s not listed on a ny of my cable services.
:(
 
I've been thinking of the Man-eaters of Tsavo, and how they were a little unusual, with no manes to speak of, and that they hunted as a pair. If the Beast of Gevaudan was indeed two creatures that hunted in pairs, could a pair lion have gotten to France somehow through trade, and that due to the region, the climate or other factors, developed the same traits as the Tsavo lions? They certainly look a little dog/wolf-like... and if that is the case, perhaps this means that under certain conditions lions may change in attitude and in physique (loss of mane) to compensate.

A photo of the Man-eaters in their current stuffed form from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsavo_Man-Eaters

Lionsoftsavo.jpg

​

 
MrRING said:
I've been thinking of the Man-eaters of Tsavo, and how they were a little unusual, with no manes to speak of, and that they hunted as a pair. If the Beast of Gevaudan was indeed two creatures that hunted in pairs, could a pair lion have gotten to France somehow through trade, and that due to the region, the climate or other factors, developed the same traits as the Tsavo lions? They certainly look a little dog/wolf-like... and if that is the case, perhaps this means that under certain conditions lions may change in attitude and in physique (loss of mane) to compensate.

A photo of the Man-eaters in their current stuffed form from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsavo_Man-Eaters

View attachment 54845

​

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I note the actual skulls are not used in the reconstruction, just the skins... could the unusual shape here just be poor modelling?
 
It's usually female lions that do the hunting and they don't have manes
 
RaM said:
It's usually female lions that do the hunting and they don't have manes
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That's not true. In prides females hunt more than males as it is the male's job to protect the pride from rogue males but thet still do some of the hunting. Younger males will hunt alone of in small groups.
 
lordmongrove said:
Another podcast on the beast.
I still think the best match is a lion. It kills with claws as well as teeth and strangles prey as big as cows but biting into the neck. Both big cat modes of killing.

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Listened to the Dark Histories account last night.
Despite Ben's cringeworthy French pronunciation (brace yourselves for several "mon-sewers" and "loops") it was extremely interesting and provided far more details than I had previously been aware of.
I suspect Ben nailed it in concluding that there was no one "beast" and that the attacks were carried out by a series of wolves or wolf-dog hybrids. I would also add that, the occasional description of a pig-like face and cloven hoofs is very suggestive of one or two of the attacks being perpetrated by wild boar.
The fact that the animal killed by Jean Chastel on 19 June 1767 apparently had no fear of him and didn't flee, is very suggestive of it being known to him and a wolf-dog hybrid from his own menagerie. I suspect it looked rather like this hybrid:

wolf.png


Also the hybrid may have a longer, fluffier tail than a standard wolf and even has the dark stripe down the back, as some witnesses reported:

wolf2.png
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Listened to the Dark Histories account last night.
Despite Ben's cringeworthy French pronunciation (brace yourselves for several "mon-sewers" and "loops") it was extremely interesting and provided far more details than I had previously been aware of.
I suspect Ben nailed it in concluding that there was no one "beast" and that the attacks were carried out by a series of wolves or wolf-dog hybrids. I would also add that, the occasional description of a pig-like face and cloven hoofs is very suggestive of one or two of the attacks being perpetrated by wild boar.
The fact that the animal killed by Jean Chastel on 19 June 1767 apparently had no fear of him and didn't flee, is very suggestive of it being known to him and a wolf-dog hybrid from his own menagerie. I suspect it looked rather like this hybrid:

View attachment 73141

Also the hybrid may have a longer, fluffier tail than a standard wolf and even has the dark stripe down the back, as some witnesses reported:

View attachment 73142
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One further piece of evidence pointing to a wolf-dog hybrid has just struck me: the claws!
Whilst wolves usually have 4 normal toes plus one dew claw, hybridisation with dogs often results in a duplicated dew claw. Hence reports of the creature having six claws.
 
lordmongrove said:
That's not true. In prides females hunt more than males as it is the male's job to protect the pride from rogue males but thet still do some of the hunting. Younger males will hunt alone of in small groups.
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It is true,he didn’t say males don’t or can’t hunt,he said it’s usually lionesses that hunt and that’s true,lionesses are the primary hunters in a pride.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Listened to the Dark Histories account last night.
Despite Ben's cringeworthy French pronunciation (brace yourselves for several "mon-sewers" and "loops") it was extremely interesting and provided far more details than I had previously been aware of.
I suspect Ben nailed it in concluding that there was no one "beast" and that the attacks were carried out by a series of wolves or wolf-dog hybrids. I would also add that, the occasional description of a pig-like face and cloven hoofs is very suggestive of one or two of the attacks being perpetrated by wild boar.
The fact that the animal killed by Jean Chastel on 19 June 1767 apparently had no fear of him and didn't flee, is very suggestive of it being known to him and a wolf-dog hybrid from his own menagerie. I suspect it looked rather like this hybrid:

View attachment 73141

Also the hybrid may have a longer, fluffier tail than a standard wolf and even has the dark stripe down the back, as some witnesses reported:

View attachment 73142
Click to expand...
I don't think the thing the animal Chastel killed was the beast. Canids do not kill in the manner of the beast, only big cats do. It leapt on cows, dragged them down with it's claws and throttled them by biting the neck. It did this to humans too and one woman was scalped by it's claws.
 
Druk said:
It is true,he didn’t say males don’t or can’t hunt,he said it’s usually lionesses that hunt and that’s true,lionesses are the primary hunters in a pride.
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Yes but males do sometimes hunt, i;ve seen them do it. Also there are solitary males and bacholar prides that hunt.
 
lordmongrove said:
It leapt on cows, dragged them down with it's claws and throttled them by biting the neck. It did this to humans too and one woman was scalped by it's claws.
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The Dark Histories podcast didn't describe any such attacks, but Ben did say the beast appeared wary of cattle and had been chased away by oxen on a couple of occasions.
I'm fairly convinced that it was a series of wolf, wolf-dog hybrid and the occasional wild boar attack that gave rise to the legend.
The creature Chastel shot was very likely a wolf-dog hybrid he had bred himself for its size and hunting abilities. Whilst he didn't receive the full reward he was expecting, due to the king's hunter already having bagged that for killing a huge wolf, Chastel still gained a sizeable recompense and became a local folk hero, which probably made him feel that killing one of his own prized hybrid animals had been worthwhile.
 
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