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The Howden Moors Incident

When I was young I went up around there to find old aircraft wrecks (there's been quite a few over the years apparently).
 
Shades of the 2016 Pentyrch UFO incident that was certainly intriguing:


... but explained pretty quickly over at Metabubk:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-pentyrch-ufo-encounter.11738/

Also discussed on here:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/the-pentyrch-incident.68988/#post-2281597

So yes, like Howden a series of seemingly inexplicable events involving the military and what people claimed were UFOs but which was explained through some level-headed research. This hasn't stopped the principle witness from cashing in publishing a book for a reasonable £16.95::

https://amzn.eu/d/e0Z6kI5

... and becoming a UFO Prophet who has all the answers:


This is definitely worth a listen as somehow from watching a military exercise for a few minutes on a bitterly cold night she is now an authority on how UFOs travel through portals etc. and also claims that the military won't provide evidence for said exercise (despite the No-Fly Zone notices being published in advance of the night in question and the exercise having a name, etc.)
 
The military don't help matters by denying stuff that has patently taken place (in connection with Howden, they denied any aircraft were in the air at a time there were several low-flying complaints and a possible sonic boom recorded by the BGS).

Clarke did later receive evidence of a MoD 'investigation' into the case (prompted, ironically, by his own correspondence with them a few years earlier) and this did turn up a description of the radar tapes, flight numbers of the aircraft involved etc so it's often the case that even this initial 'secrecy' can fairly easily be penetrated once the dust has settled a bit.
 
As for Pentyrch I think what it demonstrates very well is how an honest but mistaken witness, forced to defend their initial story, will take refuge in increasing elaboration. They may not even be aware they are doing it but perhaps modify their own memories to strengthen their preferred narrative.
 
BS3 said:
The military don't help matters by denying stuff that has patently taken place (in connection with Howden, they denied any aircraft were in the air at a time there were several low-flying complaints and a possible sonic boom recorded by the BGS).

Clarke did later receive evidence of a MoD 'investigation' into the case (prompted, ironically, by his own correspondence with them a few years earlier) and this did turn up a description of the radar tapes, flight numbers of the aircraft involved etc so it's often the case that even this initial 'secrecy' can fairly easily be penetrated once the dust has settled a bit.
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Cold war I guess, they would have known the Russians would take an interest just as they did when a Soviet "professor" wrote to Alan Godfrey after his Todmorden UFO incident

BS3 said:
As for Pentyrch I think what it demonstrates very well is how an honest but mistaken witness, forced to defend their initial story, will take refuge in increasing elaboration. They may not even be aware they are doing it but perhaps modify their own memories to strengthen their preferred narrative.
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Quite agree and she is now so far down the UFO Conspiracy rabbit hole that she is banging on about aliens living under the ground, under the oceans and having had contact with the Nazis...
 
BS3 said:
Here's another problem; witnesses may subsequently become interested in 'UFO culture', and having been led there by a sighting of their own, are very uncritical about what they find.
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On a more serious note, that is what happened with the Scottish A70 UFO incident and alleged abductions. The conscious recall of the UFO is a great case in its own right but the hypnosis was undertaken a couple of years after the event and by their own admission they had immersed themselves in UFO culture: ergo, they subsequently recalled "memories' that were full of contemporary science-fiction tropes.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Cold war I guess, they would have known the Russians would take an interest just as they did when a Soviet "professor" wrote to Alan Godfrey after his Todmorden UFO incident


Quite agree and she is now so far down the UFO Conspiracy rabbit hole that she is banging on about aliens living under the ground, under the oceans and having had contact with the Nazis...
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This is the problem: your fear of the ridicule you could face as a UFO witness leads you into increasingly ridiculous positions. It's one reason it's very hard to find genuinely objective accounts of High Strangeness stuff (and also why the attitude of witnesses like Alan Godfrey is refreshing).

it's another reason no-one should really wish for the Phenomenon to become "interested" in them, as Keel would have put it (whether the Phenomenon is extraterrestrials, paranormal entities, archectypally generated thought forms, a system of social pressures or a series of little-understood psychological experiences). Some people's lives get marked by it.
 
BS3 said:
This is the problem: your fear of the ridicule you could face as a UFO witness leads you into increasingly ridiculous positions. It's one reason it's very hard to find genuinely objective accounts of High Strangeness stuff (and also why the attitude of witnesses like Alan Godfrey is refreshing).

it's another reason no-one should really wish for the Phenomenon to become "interested" in them, as Keel would have put it (whether the Phenomenon is extraterrestrials, paranormal entities, archectypally generated thought forms, a system of social pressures or a series of little-understood psychological experiences). Some people's lives get marked by it.
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Closer to home, author and cryptozoologist Jon Downes claimed he was plagued with misfortune whist researching and writing about the Cornish Owlman and other high-strangeness back in the 1970s:

https://amzn.eu/d/fCUJSeo
 
As someone who went to university in Sheffield and still feels a connection with the place, this is a case that has intrigued me since I first read about it years ago. What interests me about the Howden Moor incident is the light aircraft that was reportedly flying around at the time, and how it recalls the phantom helicopter flap which took place around roughly the same geographical area in the 1970s.

There are two strands to the sightings - 1) the military aircraft and sonic boom(s) seen and heard around Sheffield earlier in the evening and 2) the low, slow lights and loud noise observed over the moors to the west. Were they part of the same thing or was it coincidence? If I had to guess I’d say that a military low flying exercise just happened to coicide with a very impressive bolide entry and the sonic event recorded by the British Geological Survey may have been a result of either of these. Was there really a light aircraft flying around the moors that night? My gut feeling is no. I don’t think anything (military, civilian or extraordinary) crashed that night but the reports of anomalous lights and loud noises must have had a decent level of credibility for the police to mount such a large response.
 
Carse said:
As someone who went to university in Sheffield and still feels a connection with the place, this is a case that has intrigued me since I first read about it years ago. What interests me about the Howden Moor incident is the light aircraft that was reportedly flying around at the time, and how it recalls the phantom helicopter flap which took place around roughly the same geographical area in the 1970s.

There are two strands to the sightings - 1) the military aircraft and sonic boom(s) seen and heard around Sheffield earlier in the evening and 2) the low, slow lights and loud noise observed over the moors to the west. Were they part of the same thing or was it coincidence? If I had to guess I’d say that a military low flying exercise just happened to coicide with a very impressive bolide entry and the sonic event recorded by the British Geological Survey may have been a result of either of these. Was there really a light aircraft flying around the moors that night? My gut feeling is no. I don’t think anything (military, civilian or extraordinary) crashed that night but the reports of anomalous lights and loud noises must have had a decent level of credibility for the police to mount such a large response.
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Intriguing.

Has distinct parallels with the Berwyn UFO incident:

"A 1974 "UFO incident" which was dubbed the Welsh Roswell was dismissed as an earthquake and a meteor combining, offical files show.
There was a huge bang and a brilliant light over the Berwyn Mountains in north east Wales, and there were later claims a spaceship crash was concealed"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-10863645

This case was extensively researched by Andy Roberts:

In 1958 Gavin Gibbons wrote a children's science-fiction novel By Space Ship to the Moon,which featured a UFO landing on Moel Sych in the Berwyn Mountains of North Wales. Sixteen years later, in a surreal case of life imitating art, those very same mountains would again be the focus for a story involving a downed UFO. But this time, some said, the story was for real.

https://amzn.eu/d/eILmVTb

Roberts undertook hands-on research with a level-headed approach to this incident and as a result his book should be considered the definitive account and the more lurid claims should be dismissed (well, in my opinion at least). No, it wasn't a UFO but there were credible witnesses to what went on that night and that same coincidence of a bolide reentry, a loud explosion and anomalous lights seen at moving/flying a low level (and in this case also on the hillside)
 
Carse said:
As someone who went to university in Sheffield and still feels a connection with the place, this is a case that has intrigued me since I first read about it years ago. What interests me about the Howden Moor incident is the light aircraft that was reportedly flying around at the time, and how it recalls the phantom helicopter flap which took place around roughly the same geographical area in the 1970s.

There are two strands to the sightings - 1) the military aircraft and sonic boom(s) seen and heard around Sheffield earlier in the evening and 2) the low, slow lights and loud noise observed over the moors to the west. Were they part of the same thing or was it coincidence? If I had to guess I’d say that a military low flying exercise just happened to coicide with a very impressive bolide entry and the sonic event recorded by the British Geological Survey may have been a result of either of these. Was there really a light aircraft flying around the moors that night? My gut feeling is no. I don’t think anything (military, civilian or extraordinary) crashed that night but the reports of anomalous lights and loud noises must have had a decent level of credibility for the police to mount such a large response.
Click to expand...

Well, the light aircraft was, according to Dave Clarke, captured on video:

One of these fixed-wing, propeller driven aircraft was recorded on camcorder video by witnesses in northern Sheffield shortly after 10.30pm that night, and despite a police investigation the pilot and airfield involved has never been identified. It is clear also that a second, and somewhat larger fixed wing aircraft, followed a flightpath across the north of the city shortly after 10pm, flying east to west along the Ewden Valley at an altitude below 500 feet and disappeared in a northwesterly direction over the Midhope Moors towards the Howden Reservoir. A light aircraft could not accelerate to supersonic speed, therefore there must have been two aircraft in the same area at that time.
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My suspicion, if no flightplan was filed for any of these, is that these prop aircraft were probably connected with the RAF exercise in some way, rather than being a private pilot out messing around in the same timeframe as the RAF jets.

The main reasoning behind the police response was, I guess, probably the report from the two farmers on the moors of a low flying plane, followed by a flash and possible smoke rising. A bolide shortly after the plane flying over could have given this impression.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Intriguing.

Has distinct parallels with the Berwyn UFO incident:

Roberts undertook hands-on research with a level-headed approach to this incident and as a result his book should be considered the definitive account and the more lurid claims should be dismissed (well, in my opinion at least). No, it wasn't a UFO but there were credible witnesses to what went on that night and that same coincidence of a bolide reentry, a loud explosion and anomalous lights seen at moving/flying a low level (and in this case also on the hillside)
Click to expand...
I love mysterious lights and dark lonely moors, so Berwyn is also of great interest to me. It's pretty obvious it was some natural phenomenon, though the jury is still out on whether that was a bolide entry or earthlights associated with a geological fault. The reports of military presence around the area in the aftermath either grew in the telling or are being confused with activities following the Harrier crash east of Llandrillo in 1982.

BS3 said:
Well, the light aircraft was, according to Dave Clarke, captured on video:

My suspicion, if no flightplan was filed for any of these, is that these prop aircraft were probably connected with the RAF exercise in some way, rather than being a private pilot out messing around in the same timeframe as the RAF jets.
Click to expand...
That's very interesting, I hadn't picked up on the fact an aircraft had actually been filmed. I would agree it's possible it was something like a Bulldog or Firefly, which would look just like a civilian aeroplane to an observer with no special interest in aircraft. Although what part a basic trainer would take in an exercise involving fast jets isn't obvious to me, so again its appearance may just have been coincidental. If the aircraft seen was connected with the exercise it's perhaps more likely to be an Islander CC2/CC2A (operated by the RAF) or AL1 (flown by the Army Air Corps) both of which which were used in aerial surveillance/intelligence roles, particularly to support Special Forces. That might explain the reluctance of the MOD to comment on the reports, as if the exercise involved Special Forces the MOD would not wish to draw any attention to this aspect, especially if there was also the potential there had been some illegal supersonic flight by the fast jets! It also suggests that there may have been other people out on the moors that night in addition to the searchers...

BS3 said:
The main reasoning behind the police response was, I guess, probably the report from the two farmers on the moors of a low flying plane, followed by a flash and possible smoke rising. A bolide shortly after the plane flying over could have given this impression.
Click to expand...
I suppose if several people call the police and all report they have seen a plane crash then the emergency services have to treat it seriously until it is absolutely clear that there hasn't been a crash. Of course events then gather their own momentum as more and more people get involved and take an interest. The activities of so many people and helicopers searching on the moors must have itself contributed to reports from members of the public of strange lights, unusual noises and odd movements. This also applies to the Berwyn case, of course, where witnesses probably saw lights from poachers lamping and/or police searching Cader Berwyn after the initial bang and lights associated with a bolide or earthquake.
 
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Paul_Exeter said:
Intriguing.

Has distinct parallels with the Berwyn UFO incident:

"A 1974 "UFO incident" which was dubbed the Welsh Roswell was dismissed as an earthquake and a meteor combining, offical files show.
There was a huge bang and a brilliant light over the Berwyn Mountains in north east Wales, and there were later claims a spaceship crash was concealed"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-10863645

This case was extensively researched by Andy Roberts:

In 1958 Gavin Gibbons wrote a children's science-fiction novel By Space Ship to the Moon,which featured a UFO landing on Moel Sych in the Berwyn Mountains of North Wales. Sixteen years later, in a surreal case of life imitating art, those very same mountains would again be the focus for a story involving a downed UFO. But this time, some said, the story was for real.

https://amzn.eu/d/eILmVTb

Roberts undertook hands-on research with a level-headed approach to this incident and as a result his book should be considered the definitive account and the more lurid claims should be dismissed (well, in my opinion at least). No, it wasn't a UFO but there were credible witnesses to what went on that night and that same coincidence of a bolide reentry, a loud explosion and anomalous lights seen at moving/flying a low level (and in this case also on the hillside)
Click to expand...

Andy Roberts is a great researcher, pity he doesn't seem to have been very active recently.

The most interesting thing about Berwyn for me is the possibility that some kind of earthlight phenomenon might have explained part of it. One of the things Roberts has suggested over the years is that the 1974 'Phantom Helicopter' flap might also be connected to earthlights in the months leading up to the tremor at Berwyn.
 
BS3 said:
Andy Roberts is a great researcher, pity he doesn't seem to have been very active recently.

The most interesting thing about Berwyn for me is the possibility that some kind of earthlight phenomenon might have explained part of it. One of the things Roberts has suggested over the years is that the 1974 'Phantom Helicopter' flap might also be connected to earthlights in the months leading up to the tremor at Berwyn.
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From Robert's research it does seem the nurse parked up on the mountain road saw some sort of earthlights much like those described around Longdendale, her testimony was the most credible and consistent.
 
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I've watched the Pentyrch interview above now. I note the witness is keen to say that none of this is about her, but then goes on to speculate about UFOs only revealing themselves to chosen people - the "pure of heart", as she puts it - culminating with some slightly eye-watering political opinions and a reference to that old Bill Cooper standby, "FEMA camps".

Hmmm. You have to wonder whether the UFOs really led them to all this or it was already there waiting to come out.

In connection with Howden Moor, it's interesting to see how some witnesses reported quite normal aircraft whereas a few others reported "triangles", or in one case a glowing cigar-shaped object, apparently in the same area and timeframe as the normal aircraft reported by others. It's not always the case at all but maybe some witnesses are primed to interpret things a certain way, or perhaps are projecting their anxieties onto normal stimuli, as seems to have happened at Pentyrch.
 
BS3 said:
I've watched the Pentyrch interview above now. I note the witness is keen to say that none of this is about her, but then goes on to speculate about UFOs only revealing themselves to chosen people - the "pure of heart", as she puts it - culminating with some slightly eye-watering political opinions and a reference to that old Bill Cooper standby, "FEMA camps".

Hmmm. You have to wonder whether the UFOs really led them to all this or it was already there waiting to come out.

In connection with Howden Moor, it's interesting to see how some witnesses reported quite normal aircraft whereas a few others reported "triangles", or in one case a glowing cigar-shaped object, apparently in the same area and timeframe as the normal aircraft reported by others. It's not always the case at all but maybe some witnesses are primed to interpret things a certain way, or perhaps are projecting their anxieties onto normal stimuli, as seems to have happened at Pentyrch.
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more as regard Caz Clarke and how she constructed a conspiracy around the events that night that simply doesn't exist and in doing so made these events personal to her whereas in reality anyone who was prepared to brave the freezing conditions that night could have watched the military exercise, too.

What I find really telling is that Caz Clarke must have Googled "Pentyrch UFO" if only to see how her books were being reviewed. So she must be aware that Metabunk have explained what was happening that night and how red and green parachute flares could have looked like the UFOs Clarke says she witnessed etc. So why hasn't she logged into the site to give her version of events? Likewise, she must be aware of the thread on this site, too. I just feel she has shut herself off from anyone who might challenge her beliefs and has immersed herself in the UFO conspiracy crowd.
 
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Living close to the area I have to wonder if the Howden Moor crash was something being tested at BAe Woodford as the airfield was still operational at that time, it closely matches a similar incident in 1995 where a pilot of a commercial aircraft flying in-to Manchester reported a 'flying Triangle' near-miss over the Goyt Valley (which uses the DAYNE approach and is typically flown at 5000ft asl out of the hold to the approach).
 
BS3 said:
Well, the light aircraft was, according to Dave Clarke, captured on video:



My suspicion, if no flightplan was filed for any of these, is that these prop aircraft were probably connected with the RAF exercise in some way, rather than being a private pilot out messing around in the same timeframe as the RAF jets.

The main reasoning behind the police response was, I guess, probably the report from the two farmers on the moors of a low flying plane, followed by a flash and possible smoke rising. A bolide shortly after the plane flying over could have given this impression.
Click to expand...
Any possibility that the prop plane could have been dropping something as a target for the other planes? Like a smoke bomb or similar - to simulate a crashed aircraft that needed RAF intervention?

BS3 said:
As for Pentyrch I think what it demonstrates very well is how an honest but mistaken witness, forced to defend their initial story, will take refuge in increasing elaboration. They may not even be aware they are doing it but perhaps modify their own memories to strengthen their preferred narrative.
Click to expand...
I sometimes wonder if this also happens in ghost sighting cases too. Witnesses have to double down and almost over egg the pudding without being conscious of doing so.
 
catseye said:
Any possibility that the prop plane could have been dropping something as a target for the other planes? Like a smoke bomb or similar - to simulate a crashed aircraft that needed RAF intervention?


I sometimes wonder if this also happens in ghost sighting cases too. Witnesses have to double down and almost over egg the pudding without being conscious of doing so.
Click to expand...

The point about the prop aircraft seems credible - if it was 'illegally' flying (for a private pilot) without a flight plan then I find it difficult to imagine it wasn't connected with the RAF exercise in some way.

The other theory bandied around was that it was a drugs drop that happened to coincide with the RAF stuff. Allegedly light aircraft would come in from the Netherlands and drop the 'merchandise' off for recovery.
 
BS3 said:
The point about the prop aircraft seems credible - if it was 'illegally' flying (for a private pilot) without a flight plan then I find it difficult to imagine it wasn't connected with the RAF exercise in some way.

The other theory bandied around was that it was a drugs drop that happened to coincide with the RAF stuff. Allegedly light aircraft would come in from the Netherlands and drop the 'merchandise' off for recovery.
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That is a thought re a drugs drop but could an aircraft get inland that far without being picked up by air defence radar? Oh hang on, just remembered that lad who flew from Germany to Red Square, Moscow
 
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