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mejane

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Another thread reminded me, etc...

When the first atom bomb was tested (ie exploded) in the New Mexican desert, the scientists involved in the project hadn't finished their calculations and were not entirely sure that it wouldn't cause a chain reaction in the atmosphere leading to the sudden end of life as we know it.

Has anybody else heard this?

Jane.
 
There is a bit on it here.

Teller saw another possibility: By surrounding a fission bomb with deuterium and tritium, a much more powerful "superbomb" might be constructed. This concept was based on studies made by Bethe before the war of energy production in stars. When the detonation wave from the fission bomb moved through the mixture of deuterium and tritium nuclei, they would fuse together to produce much more energy than fission, just as elements fused in the sun produce light and heat.

Bethe was skeptical, and as Teller proposed scheme after scheme for a "superbomb," Bethe refuted each one. When Teller raised the possibility that an atomic bomb might ignite the atmosphere, however, he kindled a worry that was not entirely extinguished until the Trinity test, even though Bethe showed, theoretically, that it couldn't happen.

http://www.lanl.gov/worldview/welcome/history/02_berkeley-summer.html

It worked with the cobalt bomb in "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" though. ;)
 
Blimey!

I always thought this was one of those "scientists are all mad and cannot be trusted!" type rants, much like the recent storm-in-a-teacup about the vague possibility that scientists may, one day, possibly be able to create a miniture black hole which will, inevitably, sink to the centre of the Earth and end life as we know it...

Jane.
 
As I recall from a previous University (non-)education, when the first A-bomb was tested, no-one was sure about the levels of fissionable materials in the earth's crust, and there was some concern that the chain reaction would just keep on going....:eek!!!!:

(Killer stranglet?

:wtf: )
 
There was also a fear among some that the first H-Bomb might ignite the hydrogen in the atmosphere.
 
The idea of a runaway chain reaction comes up in Last and First Men, 1930 where an atomic experiment destroys all the worlds reserves of a particular radioactive element, so obviously the idea was around well before the Manhattan Project.

Oh, and you will find the meme of voracious Strange Matter particles in more up to date sci-fi as well :)
 
DerekH said:
when the first A-bomb was tested, no-one was sure about the levels of fissionable materials in the earth's crust, and there was some concern that the chain reaction would just keep on going....:eek!!!!:
If there had been that much fissionable material around, it wouldn't have taken as long as it did to collect and refine enough to make just two measly bombs!

(A chain reaction takes a critical mass, or, more correctly, a critical density, and apart from just one or two known spots this has never occured in the Earth's crust.)

Plus, radioactivity would probably have been discovered well before the Curies came along.
 
mejane said:
When the first atom bomb was tested (ie exploded) in the New Mexican desert, the scientists involved in the project hadn't finished their calculations and were not entirely sure that it wouldn't cause a chain reaction in the atmosphere leading to the sudden end of life as we know it.

Has anybody else heard this?
I read in one of the books about the Manhattan Project (was it 'Brighter Than a Thousand Suns' by Robert Jungk (1958)?), that there had been genuine concern as to that risk, so somebody, it may even have been Oppenheimer himself, had sat down and done the math. Apparently, the probability of such an event actually occurring is quite low. ;)
 
Re: Re: The Manhatten Project

AndroMan said:
...there had been genuine concern as to that risk, so somebody, it may even have been Oppenheimer himself, had sat down and done the math.
'twas Hans Bethe. (One of the authors of the infamous "Alpher, Bethe, Gamow" Paper. ;) )
 
Oppenheimer: The Manhattan Project is central to this film but it is also about how Oppenheimer's intellectual development, his life and loves. Cillian Murphy is devastating in his portrayal of the great scientist whose mind was wracked with strange thoughts of the stars and of the Quantum World, a womaniser, drinker, chain smoker. Great luminaries like Heisenberg (Matthias Schweighöfer), Nils Bohr (Kenneth Branagh) and Einstein (Tom Conti) have walk on parts or cameos. The Einstein cameo proves to be central to the films narrative though. The film unfolds through two hearing and Oppenheimer's career progression on to being Director of the Manhattan Project. The hearing on Oppenheimer's security clearance in 1954 shows how he was deserted by many friends and colleagues but also uncovers the Iago behind this assault on his integrity. In ways Oppenheimer was his own worst enemy, careless in his choice of friends and too quick to make enemies. There are too many characters to cover in any one review but Emily Blunt puts in a creditable performance as Kitty Oppenheimer, having to hold things together, putting her life as a botanist on hold. General Leslie Groves (Matt Damon) stood by Oppenheimer in 1954 but their relationship is portrayed as being stormy during the Los Alamos years, fights over security clearances for other scientists and even Oppenheimer himself due to past political associations. We even get to see Oppenheimer's involvement in unionising scientists. Even though we know the outcome the tension builds as the Trinity Test approaches. Fermi (Danny Deferrari) makes book on how may kilotonnes the explosion will be with a side bet on the atmosphere igniting. A tale of victory, betrayal but also of how scientists had differing opinions on the use of atomic weapons and the post war use of atomic energy. The two hearings head towards a conclusion just as the Manhattan Project does, all three resulting in different levels of destruction. Written and Directed by Christopher Nolan. 9/10.

In cinemas.
 
Mods: This thread might get a few more posts if the spelling error in the title were corrected.

maximus otter
 
Just watched Storyville: The Trials of Oppenheimer, I had recorded it on BBC 4, still on iplayer. Gives more detail to some of the events in Oppenheimer and puts them in chronological order.

J Robert Oppenheimer was one of the most celebrated scientists of his generation. Shy, arrogant and brilliant, he is best known as the man that led the Manhattan Project to spectacular success.

As the years progressed he also grew into a scientific statesman, leading a government agency, the Atomic Energy Commission, which was trying to develop ways to avoid a nuclear arms race. His attempts at politics, though, were a lot less successful than his scientific endeavours. As he grew more powerful, he started to make serious enemies amongst the establishment, particularly a friend of President Truman's - Lewis Strauss.

This film tells the extraordinary story of the rise and fall of Robert Oppenheimer. David Straithairn, whose previous recreation of this era in Good Night and Good Luck was Oscar-nominated, plays Oppenheimer trying to defend himself as he was effectively put on trial for being a communist. Re-creation is mixed with expert testimony from a definitive range of commentators, ranging from Oppenheimer's Manhattan Project colleagues to academics like Martin Sherwin and Priscilla MacMillan.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00lpk70/storyville-the-trials-of-oppenheimer?page=2
 
Interesting review/essay.

Fact, Fiction, and the Father of the Bomb: On Christopher Nolan’s “Oppenheimer”​

August 30, 2023 • By Alex Wellerstein

WHO WAS J. Robert Oppenheimer? This is easy enough to answer: an American theoretical physicist, the “father of the atomic bomb,” an important architect of early US nuclear policy, and, ultimately, a victim of anti-communist fervor after he lost his security clearance in a well-publicized decision by the Atomic Energy Commission in 1954 and was excommunicated from the nuclear priesthood. Oppenheimer’s very public rise and fall, and his embodiment of various parables about dangerous knowledge (Faust, Prometheus, Icarus, etc.), have made his life one of the most scrutinized and publicized in the history of modern science. And yet, he is still universally described as inscrutable despite an extraordinary wealth of documentation: a voluminous FBI file; a security hearing that picked over his life with a microscope; and an archive of letters, memos, and recollections of both friends and enemies.

Some of Oppenheimer’s affect was clearly deliberate—he consciously played the role of a worldly, “brilliant” intellectual with broad-ranging interests and a rapid-firing mind. His close friend, the physicist I. I. Rabi, later told physicist and historian Jeremy Bernstein that “[Oppenheimer] lived a charade, and you went along with it.” The interest in Hindu philosophy and scripture, the Sanskrit, the cowboy-rancher, the poet, the flirtations with communism, the reading of Das Kapital in the original German—this was “Oppie,” a character invented by an insecure young man in the 1920s who struggled to be taken seriously by the luminaries he admired, and who felt a deep need to leave behind his cushy German Jewish upbringing on the Upper West Side.

That Oppenheimer himself played a role makes it especially fitting that his life has been adapted not only into a dozen or so full-length biographies but also in far more general histories of the atomic bomb and many prominent fictional portrayals in film, television, graphic novels, and one opera. (The best study of Oppenheimer’s use as a narrative figure is David K. Hecht’s 2015 book Storytelling and Science: Rewriting Oppenheimer in the Nuclear Age.) And while he has been subjected to the Hollywood treatment several times before, he has perhaps never been granted as much artistic treatment, nor quite such an enormous filming budget, as he has this summer with the debut of Oppenheimer, the latest film by Christopher Nolan.

Nolan wrote, directed, and produced Oppenheimer, explicitly basing it largely on the Pulitzer Prize–winning biography American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer (2005), written by Kai Bird and the late historian Martin J. Sherwin. Nolan clearly fell into the Oppenheimer rabbit hole and, one can surmise, became captivated by the challenge of how to represent his paradoxical mind. ...

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article...f-the-bomb-on-christopher-nolans-oppenheimer/
 
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