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The Mirror

brianellwood

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Nov 10, 2001
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I think the mirror has become significant in folklore as a natural progression from celtic lore where the boundary between air and water represents the joining point of the material and the spirit world. Pools and lakes held sacred signicance for early celts, and the fracturing of the reflections in them symbolised an entry into the other world. Many parallels here, I am sure. any comments on this? brian
 
It is not just celtic mythology where the mirror is important. The symbolic sign for Venus (planet and goddess) and for woman is still the mirror. Burials on the Steppes of women have included a mirror. I think they were important grave goods to the Norse as well. I have the idea from somewhere that it has an important part in Hindu mythology (?Possibly Parvati?) and in T'aoist magic.

Remember that the mirror that concerned the older worlds was not the Mirror that we are familliar with but a burnished metal surface. Such mirrors were a long way from perfect and very subject to climate and temperature.
 
Interesting! I am sure that you are right. mirrors have been important grave goods for 1000's of years and of course feature in all sorts of mythologies, from Snow White to Arthurian legends and well beyond. I have just been watching Ch 4's stone age program in which a mirror made and polished from obsidian had been dug up. Apparently no-one nows how it was polished smooth!
 
Just from the point of view of an armchair people-watcher,:) I think that ever since people were able to see their own reflections,they've been fascinated and woven stories around the possibilities.
 
There is a story by Borges which is steeped in occult lore about
mirrors, though I do not have a copy to hand and have forgotten
the title.

Ancient mirrors are a nice example of things that should not exist
but do. There have been lenses found as well and suggestions
that the telescope was known long before Galileo. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah James, I was about two or three chapters into Mr Temples "The Crystal Sun" when I was lent copies of the Harry Potter books... I'll get back to it when I'm really desperate, sometime, eventually...

Niles
 
Maybe we attach a fetishistic importance to mirrors, but isn't it really all about the reflection in them?
 
I fail to use mirrors to look at myself to the extent that I go to work with toothpaste all over my face, tie askew etc. It's not a conscious thing, I just never feel the need to look. I should learn how to really, if only to avoid sartorial embarassment.

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There is a great book on this subject called Mirrors in Mind by Richard Gregory (I think). It deals with the history, mythology and science of mirrors. I've flicked through it in bookshops many times but never actually bought a copy.
 
There's a film called Nell,in which Jodie Foster plays a young woman who's been cut off from society,and whose twin sister and mother have died.She speaks a form of pidgen English,making it difficult to communicate with her.One of the film's most interesting scenes shows her in front of a mirror,apparantly pushing against and pulling at her reflection.This behaviour turns out to be stemming from the loss of her sister,and her way of coping,because of course,with their having been identical,it's as though she can see her sister just by looking into the mirror.
 
I have to admit that I religiously avoid looking in mirrors in shops, pubs, clubs etc for some reason that I can't quite explain.

It sounds strange but I think it boils down to the fact that I have no idea what I look like. That sounds stupid - what I mean is that, of course, I recognise myself but I have no idea how the self I see in the mirror appears to other people.

An example - When I'm with other people I always feel, well, roughly the same size as they are and it always comes as a shock when I do catch myself in the mirror with someone else and see that I'm actually quite a lot bigger than them (which I normally am). I have been told that this is probably quite a positive thing in that it means I don't use my size to influence other peoples reactions to me but it can be confusing. Anyone else out there similarly peculiar?
 
We never actually see ourselves in a Mirror as we are. The person we see is a *mirror twin* with all the slight asymetries in our faces and bodies reversed. I have seen research where, apparently, anorexics and bulemics see themselves as over weight. Body image does not match reflection. And how many people do you know who don't like having their picture taken?

(BTW, Spook, there was a man I met who was very tall and well-built who was very clumsy. Then one day a friend told him that "Good grief! you're not 8 years old any more! Act your size" Perhaps he was ready for the message for he told me himself that he had started to realise his true stature and fewer accidents happened to him.)

Then there is the problem for the pre-Newtonian world that mirrors were magical. Without a theory of light it is difficult to explain reflection. All you can say is that a reflection is a magically created you.
 
I know what I look like, both reversed and on video, and God it's an awful sight. I have to face it every morning, well, when I remember to shave. But back to the point. Mirrors seem to have featured in lots of films and the worst is when they are smashed. I had to watch lots of film noir in order to write an essay, and it's surprising how many times images of people in mirrors, glass cupboards, windows etc. get fractured.Very symbolic!
 
There's a point. Maybe that's why I don't religiously look in a mirror every morning (see my last post.) It's because I believe in the 'minimum maintenance' option of hair growth, i.e. my head is shaved and I have a beard. My girf. looks at my head once a month to shave it, and I look at my face once a month to trim my beard. All you poor coiffured and clean-shaven types have to put up with viewing your own ugly mugs almost every day...

(see Here. All you self-respecting stone-huggers should be signed up with the site already...)
 
Well, of course, if you go around looking in mirrors there's always the danger of seeing something that shouldn't be there! :eek!!!!: At least, that's always the thought at the back of my mind when I'm in the bathroom. Seen too many cheesy thriller type films, I suppose.

In Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, there's a big thing made of never allowing yourself to be caught between two mirrors. The reason he gives is that the person walking away may not be the person you think it is - or something like that. Now, I don't know why and I can't find any reference, but this rang bells with me as soon as I read it. I can't find anything in any folklore that explains the resonance. Has anyone else heard of anything similar, outside Pratchett?
 
I did come across something which may be related,years ago in a girls' comic.It was in a story about a girl in medieval times who was working for a wizard,and somehow incorporated into the story was the following riddle:
What is nothing?
Answer:
What is reflected when two mirrors are placed against each other.
The more I think about that,the odder it seems,but if you apply it to the story mentioned above,perhaps it has something to do with the strange effects you get when you put two or more mirrors near each other?If you have a dressing table with one large mirror and two side ones which fold out,and you kneel on the table,you can look to your left and right and see many reflections of yourself looking back at you and receding into the distance.If the character in Pratchett's book happens to walk between two full-length mirrors,then I guess that both sides of him would be reflected in both mirrors,perhaps with more than one such image.Perhaps if that happened,the character,or others,wouldn't know which one was real?
 
I think that Pratchett mentions in that book, Witches Abroad, that it has something to do with the common belief that cameras steal your soul. Mirrors were thought to do something similar, but more temporary... that is, because they did not know about Newtonian Light, they thought that the mirror showed your soul. Now if you have infinite reflections, your soul must be spread out amongst all of them... spread infinitely thin in other words.

I love the mirror riddle at the end of the book :) For those that don't know it see if you can guess: the character is in a aze of mirrors, and must find the real one. A good test of psychology (or Headology rather :) )
 
My favorite bit of mirror lore, is of course, "Through the Looking Glass, and What Alice Found There" by Lewis Carroll. After reading this I always felt I could enter the reflection, if only I would get out of my way.
 
intaglio said:
We never actually see ourselves in a Mirror as we are. The person we see is a *mirror twin* with all the slight asymetries in our faces and bodies reversed.

And herein lies the crux: the reflection is simultaneously both 'us' but 'not us'. The mirror offers the chance to switch perspective and see oneself as another sees you: in the third and not first person. To gaze upon it is to be both observer and observed as it performs a transfomation between subject and object, allowing us to step outside of our own subjectivity in a limited fashion. This is important as the process of human living itself requires that the individual must strike an equilibrium between these two opposing positions, constantly striving to 'step outside ourselves' and consider how we are viewed as objects by other beings.

Further, and in part-reference to the earlier mention of 'celtic' and 'ancient' reflective fascination, the mirror's reflection both instantiates and demonstrates the age old distinction between appearance and reality in much the same way as a stick in water appears bent but is 'really' straight: it shows something that ostensibly is on one level but yet is not on another.

Importantly, with reference to antiquity, all their talk of mirrors does not translate seemlessly to the modern day, as their creations were far from the mimetically [near-]perfect surfaces we produce today. One would look upon oneself in panels of hammered and polished metals, often in a half light, or even use a reflecton in clear water, which shimmers all too easily. Images were, therefore, imperfect and inferior copies of reality that could not exist without their real-world counterparts. No doubt they evoked the first stirrings of a hierarchical view of reality in which all things do not 'exist' on the same level or to the same degree. [Cf. Aristotle "A thing can be said to be in many ways"]. Clearly such reflections led Plato and the pre-socratics like Pythagoras and Parmenides to question whether humanity and the physical world is really the top-rung of existence, or whether, perhaps there may be a higher, less transient, less contingent reality of which we ourselves are mere reflections.
 
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I'm not big Plath fan but this is a good 'un:

Mirror

I am silver and exact. I have no preconceptions.
What ever you see I swallow immediately
Just as it is, unmisted by love or dislike .
I am not cruel, only truthful -
The eye of a little god, four-cornered.
Most of the time I meditate on the opposite wall.
It is pink, with speckles. I have looked at it so long
I think it is a part of my heart. But it flickers.
Faces and darkness separate us over and over.
Now I am a lake. A woman bends over me,
Searching my reaches for what she really is.
Then she turns to those liars, the candles or the moon.
I see her back, and reflect it faithfully.
She rewards me with tears and an agitation of hands.
I am important to her. She comes and goes.
Each morning it is her face that replaces the darkness.
In me she has drowned a young girl, and in me an old woman
Rises toward her day after day, like a terrible fish.

- Sylvia Plath
 
have there ever been any reports of reflections being "out-of-synch" with reality? as in, you move, but your reflection waits half of a second before it copies you? the idea popped into my head a few weeks ago and i haven't been able to shake it (or make it happen :( )
 
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CoffeeJedi wrote:
have there ever been any reports of reflections being "out-of-synch" with reality? as in, you move, but your reflection waits half of a second before it copies you?

A few years ago, I wrote a short story on this theme, only the mirror image moved before the person being reflected. It got published too. I think it ended with gore. Most of my stories do. :confused:
 
I have an innate and unexplainable dislike of mirrors and keep mine hidden away.

I have caught sight of me in mirrors and failed to recognise myself
 
Homo Aves said:
I have caught sight of me in mirrors and failed to recognise myself

I have only had that experience under the effects of LSD and I found it terrifying.
 
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Homo Aves said:
I also refuse to be photographed for the same reason

i've seen myself and someone i know in photos and confused us.. "oh look that's me. err no, actually, there i am." and i've had the mirror thing as well, but only when passing mirrors in unexpected places. there is a local cinema where the toilets are like one of those mirror mazes, i get that there.
 
I remember having a dream as a child where I looked behind a mirror and woke up screaming at what I saw (or didn't see).
 
shambles said:
I remember having a dream as a child where I looked behind a mirror and woke up screaming at what I saw (or didn't see).

yeah, never look into a mirror in a dream, its freaky! i dreamt recently that i was trying to look in a mirror, but the mirror kept turning around, or someone would stand in front of it, or it would be covered, but i was determined to look into it. when i finally did, my face was just a flesh coloured blur, like someone took the Photoshop blur filter to it. Everything else looked dormal, clothes, background, etc. I woked up with a short yelp, it woke my girlfriend who asked me what was wrong:
"well... it was a dream... there was this mirror and-"
"oh! you didn't look into the mirror!"
"well... yeah"
"aaaaah... NEVER look into the mirror!"
 
DanJW said:
I think that Pratchett mentions in that book, Witches Abroad, that it has something to do with the common belief that cameras steal your soul. Mirrors were thought to do something similar, but more temporary...

What? They borrow your soul for a bit, then give it back?
 
i just wonder what color the "space" around your reflection would be if the lights were a perfect white

I tried something similar a few years ago with a couple of old dressing table mirrors. The culmulative reflections took on a distinct greenish quality like looking into a murky lake, no idea if that was down to an otherwise unaparent tinting in the glass, the imperfection of the silvering, or some sort of refractive index issue.
 
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