The Navajo Skinwalker & 'Skinwalker Ranch'

[Carl Grove]

Perhaps this is why Jay Stratton seems to have adopted the 'Axelrod' pseudonym; the strange werewolf story might have damaged his reputation in intelligence circles.

As I mentioned before this is not the only werewolf story I've encountered. Like the 'temperature differential' phenomenon, I think these events may have some common explanation - probably psychosocial in nature, coming straight from our deepest fears and apprehensions. However, this almost certainly cannot be confirmed scientifically using techniques available today.

I'm not sure why the authors chose to use any pseudonyms at all considering that his work was well known and respected in the intelligence community. As I said, many other people there had first hand experience of the hitchhiker effect, so they had no reason for scepticism. I think your theory is on the right track, except that the phenomenon itself provokes the feelings. Ryan Skinner's famous encounter with a small orb is another example. It knows that humans are driven by emotion and can easily be manipulated.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

I doubt that the anomaly will move it if is, as seems likely, the ultimate source of all the weirdness at the ranch. OK -- if you can find alternative explanations for (1) repeated malfunction of rockets, sensors, and equipment when attempting to reach it; (2) dramatic time and space distortions affecting plane and helicopter attempting to drop measuring devices etc.; (3) bizarre levels of radiation; (4) huge changes in local magnetic field; (5) huge changes in temperature around H2 associated with ancient prayer; (6) failure of scanning equipment when used inside H2 -- I'll stop there but could go on -- I might think you have a point. Frankly, when Brandon has hand picked his team and when Taylor is one of the top researchers in govt. circles, I can't see any reason why he would get in some self-appointed sceptic to give a second opinion! I would add that unless you see all the programmes you will never get an overall feel for what is happening there.

Because the witnesses themselves initially requested anonymity. No, there was no mention of crushing, the account implies something more vague. Apparently there is still a circular depression where the incident took place.

It occurs to me that they should invite all the sceptics who have criticized their work to come and spend a night wandering around the ranch! Would be interesting if they all went home with hitchikers... not sure their families would be so pleased though.

Carl - You accept the evidence from books and videos about the weirdness at the ranch. @eburacum and others do not. It is not necessary for eburacum to provide alternate explanations if the documentation of the weirdness as seen in the Skinwalker Ranch Netflix series is insufficient for him to accept that it happened in the first place.

What you term hitchhikers are what I termed the poltergeist manifestations. I think it is somewhat confusing to create a new term for something which already has a term for it which is widely known albeit not widely accepted.

The various youtube videos and the Netflix series demonstrate poor methods of science (to put it mildly) in terms of documentation, data triangulation, and so on. It would be very easy to document the perceived temperature drop by having a thermometer with them. But they didn't even though the temp drop had been experienced and discussed previously. So why didn't they? This is a simple way to triangulate the data. But they don't.

I have now watched Netflix episodes 1-4. I will likely watch the rest, even though it is aggravating for me to watch because of all the many missed opportunities to increase the robustness of the data by simple triangulation. But they don't. Over and over again, they don't.

I repeat what I stated in my first post about this: I think something anomalous is happening; and the public videos about it - including the Netflix series - do a disservice by the woo dramatic representation.

 

[eburacum]

One problem with the 'hitch-hiker/poltergeist' effect is that these events happen off-stage, far from any possibility of scientific analysis. A lot of people have reported strange events, but there is no analysable evidence from these anecdotal accounts. In some cases the names have been changed to protect anonymity (not very well, it seems).

Maybe some of these hitch-hiker events might be recorded on home security cams or something, but if they are purely psychosocial in nature then the cams might not show anything untoward.

 

[eburacum]

The Tom Gorman/Tim Sherman 'dead dogs' story is unreliable too, since it has changed over time. But it is well known that stories do change over time; I've recorded a small number of anomalous events here on FT over the last 20 years or so, and if I compare the accounts, they do evolve somewhat.

So one has to be aware that memory is not infallible, and anecdotal accounts can become dubious as they recede into the past.

 

[Carl Grove]

Carl - You accept the evidence from books and videos about the weirdness at the ranch. @eburacum and others do not. It is not necessary for eburacum to provide alternate explanations if the documentation of the weirdness as seen in the Skinwalker Ranch Netflix series is insufficient for him to accept that it happened in the first place.

What you term hitchhikers are what I termed the poltergeist manifestations. I think it is somewhat confusing to create a new term for something which already has a term for it which is widely known albeit not widely accepted.

The various youtube videos and the Netflix series demonstrate poor methods of science (to put it mildly) in terms of documentation, data triangulation, and so on. It would be very easy to document the perceived temperature drop by having a thermometer with them. But they didn't even though the temp drop had been experienced and discussed previously. So why didn't they? This is a simple way to triangulate the data. But they don't.

I have now watched Netflix episodes 1-4. I will likely watch the rest, even though it is aggravating for me to watch because of all the many missed opportunities to increase the robustness of the data by simple triangulation. But they don't. Over and over again, they don't.

I repeat what I stated in my first post about this: I think something anomalous is happening; and the public videos about it - including the Netflix series - do a disservice by the woo dramatic representation.

The key difference between poltergeists and the hitchhiker effect is that the former tends to be associated with one location and often one specific individual; the hitchhiker effect spreads by contact and as it seems, follows a pattern precisely the same as a virus or germ driven infection.

Let's be clear, no TV presentation is going to waste time showing someone typing up a formal report on every incident that happens, a report that nobody watching would have time to read in its entirety anyway. Given the constraints of a televised presentation I think they do well: the findings (certainly after the first few episodes) are described succinctly and Travis attempts to explain them in plain English, which I think is the best you can expect. They did indeed have temperature measuring equipment and also a visual colour based video display which showed very dramatic effects at H2. In fact they have no lack of high tech equipment, although the ranch has on several occasions demonstrated its ability to shut down any equipment that it wishes to. I'm not sure what you mean by a "woo dramatic presentation," but on the whole there doesn't need to be any over-dramatising of what happens, it speaks for itself (although the tendency in all "reality" programmes is to cut to people looking surprised or shocked when something happens!).

 

[Carl Grove]

The Tom Gorman/Tim Sherman 'dead dogs' story is unreliable too, since it has changed over time. But it is well known that stories do change over time; I've recorded a small number of anomalous events here on FT over the last 20 years or so, and if I compare the accounts, they do evolve somewhat.

So one has to be aware that memory is not infallible, and anecdotal accounts can become dubious as they recede into the past.

It seems that the usual version is somewhat garbled, although whether the orbs crushed the dogs or incinerated them, they still died. Talking to the main witness cleared it up though.

 

[eburacum]

Did it? This sounds more like a post-hoc account of two dogs that died in a brush fire in the desert to me.

 

[brownmane]

The excellent guys down under at 'Mysteries Universe' often feature places in Australia that are up there with the Skinwalker Ranch, here is a recent example:

"Our next stop is the "Skinwalker Ranch" of Australia, where we recount the legend of the terror Birdmen of Fernvale and a series of strange events that occurred in 1927. These events include sightings of UFOs, cattle mutilations, and encounters with Men in White. It's a fascinating and spine-tingling exploration of the unknown."

https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2023/03/29.08-MU-Podcast-Outback-Birdman/

Thanks @Paul_Exeter, I'll have to look that up.

 

[Carl Grove]

Did it? This sounds more like a post-hoc account of two dogs that died in a brush fire in the desert to me.

Sorry, that's totally ridiculous. This is what happened:

------------------------------------------------------------

1.23pm. Tom brings over Steven Wall, a nephew of the Shermans, who was on the
ranch during the 1990s, almost 30 years ago. He says as a child he was always ner-
vous with all the strange things going on.
Erik suggests that Steven show them where some of the phenomena occurred. He
takes them to the place where the two dogs were allegedly vaporised by a UFO, but
Steven says no. “They weren’t vaporised, they were compressed into the ground-
like something heavy had smashed them.” Erik asks if he spoke to the witnesses to
this, and he said that he was a witness. A blue orb had come bouncing down out of
the rocks and the dogs followed it. It seemed that each animal had been separately
smashed into the ground by something very hot. [Series 2, episode 5]

--------------------------------------------------------------

In case we find it amusing that top US officials are being terrorised by the hitchhiker effect and orbs the details of what happened to Costigan's wife Leila certainly shook me. Her arm was grazed by a blue orb flying past and she immediately became seriously ill, with what was later diagnosed with Hashimoto's Erythematosus, an autoimmune disease in which the immune system attacks the thyroid.

 

[eburacum]

Once again a scientific examination of the events is prevented by the lack of any evidence which can be examined independently. The most impressive events always happen where no-one can photograph them or measure them; away from the ranch, or in the past.

I can make a prediction; if the Skinwalker Ranch is ever opened up to independent, competent researchers with no connection to Fugal and his entertainment empire, precisely none of this will be replicable; no orbs, no mile-high anomalies, no stray pixels floating above the mesa. The 'mysterious' microwave flux in this area probably comes from their own equipment.

In addition, I anticipate that the research currently being carried out by Taylor et al. will turn out to have no practical application. But it is unlikely that Fugal will let this happen in the foreseeable future, not while the TV series is still being renewed.

 

[Carl Grove]

Once again a scientific examination of the events is prevented by the lack of any evidence which can be examined independently. The most impressive events always happen where no-one can photograph them or measure them; away from the ranch, or in the past.

I can make a prediction; if the Skinwalker Ranch is ever opened up to independent, competent researchers with no connection to Fugal and his entertainment empire, precisely none of this will be replicable; no orbs, no mile-high anomalies, no stray pixels floating above the mesa. The 'mysterious' microwave flux in this area probably comes from their own equipment.

In addition, I anticipate that the research currently being carried out by Taylor et al. will turn out to have no practical application. But it is unlikely that Fugal will let this happen in the foreseeable future, not while the TV series is still being renewed.

That's right, ignore the points I just made and carry on with your cynical negative take on everything. Why not contact Fugal and ask to be allowed to come and see for yourself? He could only say "no," but if he didn't you would have a great opportunity to show all the researchers where they're going wrong! You obviously know better than the US intelligence service as well, so might be worth offering your services to them also.

 

[eburacum]

Only a small fraction of the US Intelligence service is infected by this delusion; Jason Colavito calls them the Invisible College, and they have gained some influence since the Navy UAP reports.
https://newrepublic.com/article/162457/government-embrace-ufos-bad-science

We have a good idea what will happen, and we shouldn’t let enthusiasts of space ghosts have the run of Washington to steer money and policy in the direction they want. If they insist UFOs are a national security threat, then the national media must take them at their word. No more chuckles. No more rhapsodies about mystery. We must hold Team Space Poltergeist to the levels of skepticism, seriousness, and scrutiny it pretends to demand. Quite literally, the future depends on it.

Here's a diagram showing some of the nefarious connections within the Invisible College; I'm not one for conspiracy theories, so I can't say that I take this entirely seriously, but it does include some of the worst actors in the saga.
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/...531_a155a73262844d2ab0d4d9d0454e83e0~mv2.webp

Luckily there is another faction in US Intelligence circles, with a bit more common sense. Here is the team for NASA's study into Anomalous Phenomena, and I have high hopes for this effort. Turn this lot loose on the Skinwalker Ranch.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-announces-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-study-team-members/

 

[Carl Grove]

Only a small fraction of the US Intelligence service is infected by this delusion; Jason Colavito calls them the Invisible College, and they have gained some influence since the Navy UAP reports.
https://newrepublic.com/article/162457/government-embrace-ufos-bad-science



Here's a diagram showing some of the nefarious connections within the Invisible College; I'm not one for conspiracy theories, so I can't say that I take this entirely seriously, but it does include some of the worst actors in the saga.
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/...531_a155a73262844d2ab0d4d9d0454e83e0~mv2.webp

Luckily there is another faction in US Intelligence circles, with a bit more common sense. Here is the team for NASA's study into Anomalous Phenomena, and I have high hopes for this effort. Turn this lot loose on the Skinwalker Ranch.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-announces-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-study-team-members/

That's outrageous that you should label people who disagree with you as "the worst actors" -- with one or two exceptions (notably the inclusion of Bob Lazar) these are all sensible and serious researchers. Frankly this Colavito guy sounds quite paranoid. There's no delusion, these things are happpening and the fact that you don't like that people take a serious interest in investigating them reflects poorly on you.

 

[eburacum]

Yes, some strange events are happening, but they need to be researched by people not connected with this group. All the actual scientific evidence produced so far is probably caused by mundane phenomena. I'm all for investigation, but don't let the Invisible College actors anywhere near the research, because they do not seem to apply proper, falsifiable methodology.

 

[Carl Grove]

Yes, some strange events are happening, but they need to be researched by people not connected with this group. All the actual scientific evidence produced so far is probably caused by mundane phenomena. I'm all for investigation, but don't let the Invisible College actors anywhere near the research, because they do not seem to apply proper, falsifiable methodology.

In your opinion. Based on what I've seen so far in the Lacatski et al book, their methodology seems excellent. If you can cite a few specific examples of poor methodology, please do, but just repeating an accusation doesn't make it valid.

 

[eburacum]

I refer you to the numerous examples in this thread. Over and over again I have shown where perfectly mundane explanations have been ignored or washed over in the show, and also examples of poor or misleading editing, where the data on screen do not match up with statements by the actors. I suspect the investigators in this show are deluded by an idee fixee that makes them unable to consider the mundane solutions thoroughly.

Sometimes the editors may be at fault; in one example, they either showed the wrong day on the monitors or the wrong plane- I suppose this could be the result of time restraints in filming. This plane did not fly over at the time discussed in the program; perhaps the editors compressed the timescale somehow (by several days) but it is not rigorous science.

Here's another one; the reading on the sensor is completely different to the one they are discussing.

1385 is not 1240. Perhaps an editor's mistake- but not one you'd expect on a rigorously scientific show.

 

[eburacum]

This one annoys me too - they talk about a mystery helicopter- but it has been identified as a commercial power line survey.

Why oh why oh why do they pretend things are more mysterious than they are?

 

[eburacum]

Another bizarre 'mystification' effect is the microwaves that they constantly detect. Of all the types of radiation in the environment, the one which is most likely to be man-made is microwave radiation. But they talk about it as if it is something alien. Here's a mundane microwave reading near a 4G booster aerial. If I were to send a team of scientists in to look for microwaves I'd disable all the radio mikes first, but you can't do that when you are filming an entertainment show.

 

[eburacum]

I hope that by now you are convinced that the showrunners or their editors either deliberately or accidentally 'mystify' the events that occur in this program, at least on occasion. Do you really think this is the best way to collect evidence for these kinds of anomaly?

 

[Robbrent]

I hope that by now you are convinced that the showrunners or their editors either deliberately or accidentally 'mystify' the events that occur in this program, at least on occasion. Do you really think this is the best way to collect evidence for these kinds of anomaly?

They kind of have to don't they, it's not a serious investigation it's just light entertainment as most of these types of programmers are

 

[Carl Grove]

I refer you to the numerous examples in this thread. Over and over again I have shown where perfectly mundane explanations have been ignored or washed over in the show, and also examples of poor or misleading editing, where the data on screen do not match up with statements by the actors. I suspect the investigators in this show are deluded by an idee fixee that makes them unable to consider the mundane solutions thoroughly.

Sometimes the editors may be at fault; in one example, they either showed the wrong day on the monitors or the wrong plane- I suppose this could be the result of time restraints in filming. This plane did not fly over at the time discussed in the program; perhaps the editors compressed the timescale somehow (by several days) but it is not rigorous science.

Here's another one; the reading on the sensor is completely different to the one they are discussing.

1385 is not 1240. Perhaps an editor's mistake- but not one you'd expect on a rigorously scientific show.

Well, given that they don't have more than one cameraman on the scene, they obviously can't show the reading on the guy's meter immediately it happens. This is going to happen when (as was the case) sudden unexpected changes in readings were taking place. Later on there were a lot of weird readings on the spectrum analyser (if that's the right name) when, on some occasions, there were high readings right across the spectrum, and these were all filmed as they happened. Despite the warnings they must have had about the unpredictability of events on the ranch the crew clearly were wrong footed on occasion. By the 2nd series they had got their act together more, they began more aggressive investigations, and the standard and the interest value rose greatly.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

The key difference between poltergeists and the hitchhiker effect is that the former tends to be associated with one location and often one specific individual; the hitchhiker effect spreads by contact and as it seems, follows a pattern precisely the same as a virus or germ driven infection.

Let's be clear, no TV presentation is going to waste time showing someone typing up a formal report on every incident that happens, a report that nobody watching would have time to read in its entirety anyway. Given the constraints of a televised presentation I think they do well: the findings (certainly after the first few episodes) are described succinctly and Travis attempts to explain them in plain English, which I think is the best you can expect. They did indeed have temperature measuring equipment and also a visual colour based video display which showed very dramatic effects at H2. In fact they have no lack of high tech equipment, although the ranch has on several occasions demonstrated its ability to shut down any equipment that it wishes to. I'm not sure what you mean by a "woo dramatic presentation," but on the whole there doesn't need to be any over-dramatising of what happens, it speaks for itself (although the tendency in all "reality" programmes is to cut to people looking surprised or shocked when something happens!).

Hi Carl - I agree with you that this TV presentation is not wasting any screen time showing someone typing up a formal report. What I wished to observe was someone spending 30 seconds stating that all the previous documentation was thoroughly reviewed and then summarizing the main points. 30 seconds! But they don't.

Dt. Taylor explaining in plain English is great, but because the previous evidence and the context of the new is never discussed, its difficult to make sense of the occurrences. Another 30 second opportunity which the directors of the show did not take. These omissions, cumulatively, reduce the show's credibility.

This show is woo entertainment. Perhaps the books written about the Skinwalker Ranch do a better job, but the Netflix series is, in my opinion, lacking.

 

[Carl Grove]

Hi Carl - I agree with you that this TV presentation is not wasting any screen time showing someone typing up a formal report. What I wished to observe was someone spending 30 seconds stating that all the previous documentation was thoroughly reviewed and then summarizing the main points. 30 seconds! But they don't.

Dt. Taylor explaining in plain English is great, but because the previous evidence and the context of the new is never discussed, its difficult to make sense of the occurrences. Another 30 second opportunity which the directors of the show did not take. These omissions, cumulatively, reduce the show's credibility.

This show is woo entertainment. Perhaps the books written about the Skinwalker Ranch do a better job, but the Netflix series is, in my opinion, lacking.

I'm never sure what the term "woo" is supposed to mean, but obviously the main aim of a TV company filming a reality series is to make money, and to do that they take short cuts and brief summaries from Travis or other team members rather than long formal analyses. The basic thread is followed but without, maybe, the kind of long analyses of evidence that you are hoping for. On the whole I don't have the problem that you seem to have; certainly by the 2nd series the main threads of the investigation became clear: (1) Scanning the ranch using GPR and other technologies, (2) recording and measuring spikes of radiation and EM signals; (3) Starting active digging in key locations such as near H2 and the triangle area; (4) trying a variety of methods to reach and scan the anomaly a mile above the triangle; (3) Other more exotic or experimental methods such as introducing new animals into the ranch, seeing the effects of an ancient prayer recital, noting the nearby presence of ancient sites with interesting pictographs, investigating experiences in nearby communities, locating and interviewing witnesses to previous activity on the ranch, rebroadcasting some of the strange signals received from the anomaly and apparently stimulating UAP activity, trying to use powerful lasers to probe anomalies. Personally, the effects of attempts to reach the anomaly using manned planes, rockets, and a helicopter resulted, in my view, in some of the most extraordinary findings. The ranch, or rather the anomaly, seems to be able to distort time and physical dimensions when any manned effort is made to reach it. This is interesting, because if it, whatever It is, wanted to, it could disable and destroy manned aircraft as easily as it does unmanned rockets. It suggests that maybe it is not extremely hostile and that maybe the scary phenomena are a way of driving off investigators rather than signs of something "evil" going on.

Incidentally, although it is full of complex intelligence community jargon, the book by Lacatski et al is a must-read for anyone seriously interested in the whole question of UAPs, their investigation, and the response of US officialdom. It seems beyond doubt that the TicTac sightings and the ranch, and the fact that the phenomena were able to spread to many members of the intel community and their families like a contagion, were the key factors in driving a dramatic change in official attitudes to these phenomena. The amount of money spent so far on the investigations is in the millions already, a staggering turn-around in attitudes. Pity that people had to be seriously hurt and traumatised to bring this about.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

I'm never sure what the term "woo" is supposed to mean, but obviously the main aim of a TV company filming a reality series is to make money, and to do that they take short cuts and brief summaries from Travis or other team members rather than long formal analyses. The basic thread is followed but without, maybe, the kind of long analyses of evidence that you are hoping for. On the whole I don't have the problem that you seem to have; certainly by the 2nd series the main threads of the investigation became clear: (1) Scanning the ranch using GPR and other technologies, (2) recording and measuring spikes of radiation and EM signals; (3) Starting active digging in key locations such as near H2 and the triangle area; (4) trying a variety of methods to reach and scan the anomaly a mile above the triangle; (3) Other more exotic or experimental methods such as introducing new animals into the ranch, seeing the effects of an ancient prayer recital, noting the nearby presence of ancient sites with interesting pictographs, investigating experiences in nearby communities, locating and interviewing witnesses to previous activity on the ranch, rebroadcasting some of the strange signals received from the anomaly and apparently stimulating UAP activity, trying to use powerful lasers to probe anomalies. Personally, the effects of attempts to reach the anomaly using manned planes, rockets, and a helicopter resulted, in my view, in some of the most extraordinary findings. The ranch, or rather the anomaly, seems to be able to distort time and physical dimensions when any manned effort is made to reach it. This is interesting, because if it, whatever It is, wanted to, it could disable and destroy manned aircraft as easily as it does unmanned rockets. It suggests that maybe it is not extremely hostile and that maybe the scary phenomena are a way of driving off investigators rather than signs of something "evil" going on.

Incidentally, although it is full of complex intelligence community jargon, the book by Lacatski et al is a must-read for anyone seriously interested in the whole question of UAPs, their investigation, and the response of US officialdom. It seems beyond doubt that the TicTac sightings and the ranch, and the fact that the phenomena were able to spread to many members of the intel community and their families like a contagion, were the key factors in driving a dramatic change in official attitudes to these phenomena. The amount of money spent so far on the investigations is in the millions already, a staggering turn-around in attitudes. Pity that people had to be seriously hurt and traumatised to bring this about.

"I'm never sure what the term "woo" is supposed to mean, but obviously the main aim of a TV company filming a reality series is to make money, and to do that they take short cuts and brief summaries from Travis or other team members rather than long formal analyses."

Carl, this is unfair and comes across as a debating tactic. A 30 second summary is not a long analysis. To repeat myself - I hope for the last time - the lack of any summarizing information and the lack of a project plan are fatal errors in my opinion. These are clearly not important to you, and that is certainly acceptable.

By "woo" I mean the psychological response to a phenomenon which is weird, Fortean, unexplained, and generally unaccepted by science's current mainstream culture.

I have no interest in reading books about the ranch. I started watching the Netflix series because you wrote it was much better than the youtube videos.

 

[Sabresonic]

Hi Carl - I agree with you that this TV presentation is not wasting any screen time showing someone typing up a formal report. What I wished to observe was someone spending 30 seconds stating that all the previous documentation was thoroughly reviewed and then summarizing the main points. 30 seconds! But they don't.

Dt. Taylor explaining in plain English is great, but because the previous evidence and the context of the new is never discussed, its difficult to make sense of the occurrences. Another 30 second opportunity which the directors of the show did not take. These omissions, cumulatively, reduce the show's credibility.

This show is woo entertainment. Perhaps the books written about the Skinwalker Ranch do a better job, but the Netflix series is, in my opinion, lacking.

Is it like Most Haunted ?

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

Is it like Most Haunted ?

I don't know. I watch almost no current media productions. It will take me several weeks to recover from watching the Skinwalker Ranch series

 

[Min Bannister]

Is it like Most Haunted ?

No, it's not that good.

 

[Carl Grove]

"I'm never sure what the term "woo" is supposed to mean, but obviously the main aim of a TV company filming a reality series is to make money, and to do that they take short cuts and brief summaries from Travis or other team members rather than long formal analyses."

Carl, this is unfair and comes across as a debating tactic. A 30 second summary is not a long analysis. To repeat myself - I hope for the last time - the lack of any summarizing information and the lack of a project plan are fatal errors in my opinion. These are clearly not important to you, and that is certainly acceptable.

By "woo" I mean the psychological response to a phenomenon which is weird, Fortean, unexplained, and generally unaccepted by science's current mainstream culture.

I have no interest in reading books about the ranch. I started watching the Netflix series because you wrote it was much better than the youtube videos.

Well, that does surprise me. You are ok with watching TV series about something but you don't want to read books? Really? Your idea of science is certainly very different from mine. Surely you realise that the books will contain far more detailed info than can be gleaned from the best possible TV programme on any topic?

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

Well, that does surprise me. You are ok with watching TV series about something but you don't want to read books? Really? Your idea of science is certainly very different from mine. Surely you realise that the books will contain far more detailed info than can be gleaned from the best possible TV programme on any topic?

So now you are resorting to an ad hominum attack on me! You have no idea what type or how many books I read. I am just not interested enough in the whole skinwalker ranch phenomenon to spend time reading about it.

Whether I read books on it or not has NO BEARING on my critical analysis of the Netflix series. I never wanted to watch the series at all - and only started watching to fairly judge it rather than dismissively reject it as woo nonsense.

I am done with this topic.

 

[Carl Grove]

So now you are resorting to an ad hominum attack on me! You have no idea what type or how many books I read. I am just not interested enough in the whole skinwalker ranch phenomenon to spend time reading about it.

Whether I read books on it or not has NO BEARING on my critical analysis of the Netflix series. I never wanted to watch the series at all - and only started watching to fairly judge it rather than dismissively reject it as woo nonsense.

I am done with this topic.

I don't even know what an "ad hominum attack" is! Clearly our view on science and everything else is very different.