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The Omphalos Of Britain

gyrtrash

gyrtrash

Gone But Not Forgotten
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The 'Omphalos' - 'a sacred centre which each civilisation seems to create or adopt' (Bob Trubshaw)...

So, where's ours? The Omphalos of these islands?

Or do we have more than one?

Maybe:-

...the Lia F il (Stone of Destiny) at Tara or the various 'king stones' (such as Kingston upon Thames) where medieval English kings were crowned. Our monarchs still sit on, or at least above, the Stone of Scone for their coronation.
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THIS ARTICLE reckons a prime candidate might be Oxford!

Apart from its present-day signifance as a centre of learning (and tourism!) Oxford combines many facets of the 'mystical centre' or omphalos. Its location on a confluence, the Mabinogion geomantic legend, the medieval monastery, the Carfax, the crossing leys, Wren's symbolic statement in Tom Quad and just the sheer 'magnetic power' of the place.
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THIS ARTICLE reveals a few possible sites, including Windsor and Stonehenge (I knew it'd be here somewhere!) and the Omphalos of London.
We even get a little bit of 'conspiracy theory' and unseen power struggles thrown in...

In modern Britain however, we are embedded in a web of interleaved cultures and competing value-systems. There is no clear omphalos, although in recent years the subject has gained more interest. Notably the battles around Stonehenge makes more sense when seen as a matter of control of the omphalos there. This was preceded by the suppression of the Windsor Free Festival in 1974. Windsor is another omphalic site.
But these omphalic sites are not simply of interest to hippies. The army has maintained a massive presence in the Stonehenge area for years, and royalty has controlled Windsor for centuries. They are of great importance to the ruling elite.
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Finally, THIS ARTICLE relates how nazi occultists have seized the British Omphalos from the hands of the 'Establishment'!

The election of Derek Beackon as a Councillor on the Isle of dogs caused shocked outrage across the Establishment. Beackon is a dedicated Nazi occultist . He graduated to the British Nationalist Party after serving his apprenticeship in the British Movement. Beackon is an adept of Enochian magic...
...This leyline has been in the hands of the Establishment for years. They used the Greenwich section for astrological purposes. Time and space are measured from here. The British Establishment have now gained universal recognition for their hermetic system. Meanwhile, the other section at QMWC, has been the centre of sub-atomic research. Thus Greenwich accounts for the macrocosm, while the alchemical processes north of the river account for the microcosm.

Many people believe that Greenwich is in fact the Omphalos--or spiritual centre--of the British Empire. However those with a deeper understanding of Feng Shui, the ancient Chinese art of land divination , will recognise that the actual Omphalos must be on the Isle of Dogs, protected by water on all sides. Those who visit the Mudchute--a piece of park mystenously built as an exact replica of an ancient hill fort will find a special staircase leading to a cobbled circle. This is the Omphalos, Ihe spiritual centre, where the Magus John Dee conjured up the British Empire in the presence of Christopher Marlowe, four hundred years ago this year. However, using the leyline for such evil purposes necessitated the sacrifice of a human life. A psychic attack on Christopher Marlowe and his friends in a Deptford pub lead to a brawl in which the famous playwright died.
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Fascinating points of view!


Any more contenders for the title of 'Omphalos of Britain'?

Or 'Omphalic' tales?
 
Westminster Abbey must be a good candidate. An ancient site of christian worship, centuries of coronations. What about it's pre-christian history? Anyone know?
 
No mention of Glastonbury then?

Carole
 
carole said:
No mention of Glastonbury then?

Carole
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Yeah!

You just mentioned it!:D
Do you reckon it's a contender?


Westminster Abbey is one of the places mentioned in the second link.
All I can remember about it is that there's supposed to be a mythical figure called 'Long Meg' buried on one side of it (?), and that it's built on what was once an island in the Tyburn River!
Oh, and it's sometimes refered to as the most famous necropolis (burial place) in Britain :eek!!!!:
 
Well, there's all the well-known legends of Joseph of Arimathaea, King Arthur, et al, so I do reckon Glastonbury's a good contender.

Carole
 
David Raven said:
Many people believe that Greenwich is in fact the Omphalos--or spiritual centre--of the British Empire. However those with a deeper understanding of Feng Shui, the ancient Chinese art of land divination , will recognise that the actual Omphalos must be on the Isle of Dogs, protected by water on all sides.
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Why would Britain's Omphalos be determined by Chinese rules? Shouldn't something like that be peculiar to each culture?
 
Re: Re: The Omphalos Of Britain

Windwhistler said:
Why would Britain's Omphalos be determined by Chinese rules? Shouldn't something like that be peculiar to each culture?
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Yeah, I found that bit of the article curious. But people seem to like taking bits from different cultures that they like the sound of, to absorb into their own world view. Mix in a bit of Enochian magickery and some sub-atomic research...
'Each to their own...' :)
 
Re: Re: The Omphalos Of Britain

Windwhistler said:
Why would Britain's Omphalos be determined by Chinese rules? Shouldn't something like that be peculiar to each culture?
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Quite right WW! A casting of the dominoes and brown ale libations all round! :D
 
I think Jerusalem(or maybe Mt Tabor?) is supposedly the world Omphalos, and Glastonbury is the English Jerusalem (according to the song at any rate) but I wouldn't see it as omphalic. London pretty much has it all, with maybe Stopnehenge as a contender too , I'm just going by what a visitor from another country would consider an important place to visit.
There was a feng shui type thing in Britain in the past, it just wasn't called that. I think placement of scared sites and homes/villages was taken into consideration ( I don't just mean from a practical point of view) even if it might not have been conciously done.
( BTW Stonehenge and Glastonbury are both on the line of latitude that puts them at right angles to the major southern solar standstill.)
 
Re: Re: Re: The Omphalos Of Britain

AndroMan said:
Quite right WW! A casting of the dominoes and brown ale libations all round! :D
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Hmmm. My Master of the Ancient Yorkshire Martial Art of Eccythump forbids me to lower myself to answer that!:p
I will divine the true meaning of life from 'The Mirror' in't mornin'...


I think there are more local 'Omphali', maybe relevant to tribes or regions.
I've noticed places that have had regional 'moot' significance. In the distant past, councils and opposing groups have met at these sites and thrashed stuff out. They're more common than ya might imagine.


BUT, I still wonder if there was ONE major omphalos for the country...
Some people obviously reckon so, or they wouldn't bother trying to 'control' it...
(if such a thing can be controlled!)...
 
It makes a difference if you mean more modern times or ancient times, the Tower of London has been important for a long time, (the mortar in the white tower is made from the crushed bricks of the Roman building that stood there before it), but before the Romans I don't think London was very important at all.And now other parts of London are more important.There are very minor towns/villages in the South and West of England that were once important meeting places for Saxon Kings and others with major prehistoric monuments. I think the omphalos has probably changed over the years as different places become important. I don't think there has always been once special place.
 
Isn't the tower of london on the white hill where legend has Bran The Blessed's head guarding britain? If so, is this the root of the ravens at the tower?
 
Breakfast said:
Isn't the tower of london on the white hill where legend has Bran The Blessed's head guarding britain? If so, is this the root of the ravens at the tower?
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There is a good article in the latest Northern Earth mag (#96) about the tower ravens and legends. Apparently Bran's head was buried at either White Hill where the Tower now stands, or Lud Hill where St Paul's now stands but was dug up by King Arthur because he didn't want anyone else to guard Britain but himself!
The article says the legend connected with ravens and the Tower is ancient but not if it is connected to Bran.
 
Logicaly it would be at Greenwich, on the Meridian...which actualy should be placed in my village since Neville Masklyn was born and is buried here.

If it wernt for him, we would all be calculating zero from Paris!
 
I say...

... The Honorable 23rdian appears to have excelled himself!

The aformentioned article makes for fascinating reading! :yeay:

Hat's off, Sir! :D
 
Are we looking for the different bits or the whole of the UK?


Kath

PS is it an inni or an outi? :)
 
true true.... as with Glastonbury.

For scotland I was going to say ben nevis.... but maybe we have a moveable one whereever the stone is?

Kath
 
Marion said:
There is a good article in the latest Northern Earth mag (#96) about the tower ravens and legends. Apparently Bran's head was buried at either White Hill where the Tower now stands, or Lud Hill where St Paul's now stands but was dug up by King Arthur because he didn't want anyone else to guard Britain but himself!
The article says the legend connected with ravens and the Tower is ancient but not if it is connected to Bran.
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iirc bran is welsh for raven
 
Absolutely correct, this is one of the reasons I was wondering about the raven myth.
 
There was a list of all the 'centres' of Britain in the 'Northern Earth' mag #99. For instance, the centre of Britain (mainland only), centre of England (mainland only), entire UK (including all islands), centre of London...etc.


Also, Paul Devereux wrote an interesting article about the possible sites for 'the mystical centre' of England in NE#92, entitled 'Contemplating Albion's Navel'. In it, he relates how the Venerable Bede reckoned the Angli Mediterranei, the Middle of England, was Lichfield, thought to be where the present cathedral stands.

A couple of the other places he included in the running are;-

Oxford - from a tale in the Mabinogion, where Ludd has to measure the island of Britain to find the centre, as part of a plan to trap two dragons.

Vernonae - the point the Roman surveyers chose to be the centre of Britain. (Though they only included the land from the south coast up to Hadrian's Wall!). This was where Watling Street and the Fosse Way cross.


But the most surprising one he mentioned is a place called Croft Hill in Leicestershire, citing evidence from Saxon times to 19th century historian's accounts...
 
gyrtrash said:
Oxford - from a tale in the Mabinogion, where Ludd has to measure the island of Britain to find the centre, as part of a plan to trap two dragons.
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could you expand on that?
 
gyrtrash said:
In it, he relates how the Venerable Bede reckoned the Angli Mediterranei, the Middle of England, was Lichfield, thought to be where the present cathedral stands.
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IIRC (and perhaps slightly OT), there was an article many moons ago in Fortean Times detailing the unusual amount of deaths from people falling out of trains in that area.
 
Bran The Blessed's head
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Reading this fleetingly, for one terrifying moment I thought that Britain was being guarded by the head of Brian Blessed ... :)
 
gyrtrash said:
Vernonae - the point the Roman surveyers chose to be the centre of Britain. (Though they only included the land from the south coast up to Hadrian's Wall!). This was where Watling Street and the Fosse Way cross.
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That's just up the road from where I live. It's just outside the village of Wolvey in Leicestershire. Don't know about the Omphalos of Britain but there's a really good pub there!
 
H_James said:
gyrtrash said:
Oxford - from a tale in the Mabinogion, where Ludd has to measure the island of Britain to find the centre, as part of a plan to trap two dragons.
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could you expand on that?
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According to the article, it's the story of 'Ludd and Llefelys'. Llefelys advises his brother, Ludd, to measure the land and find it's centre. There he should dig a pit and bury a tub of best mead with a silk cloth over it.
This was to trap two fighting dragons who were creating an awful din that could be heard across the countryside.
(I haven't read the story. Maybe someone else who is familiar with it can add more details?)...

Dragons must be partial to a bit of mead, eh?
 
Skeletonmaster said:
Don't know about the Omphalos of Britain but there's a really good pub there!
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Wouldn't surprise me if the Omphalos was a pub! ;) :_pished:
 
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