The Shadow Man & His Damned Hat

[GeorgeP]

...and this guy perhaps...

 

[ramonmercado]

Or

 

[GeorgeP]

Or

UKIPs leader, hatman sightings whilst you try to kip(sleep)

 

[LauraRoslin]

View attachment 439 View attachment 438 View attachment 437

This brings something else to mind -


snip 8<8<8<

You may have been peering into another dimension, perhaps that area contains what is termed a window area.

There-in lies the conundrum. Attempting to explain one mystery by using another. I see that happen a lot, particularly in this type of area. e.g. ghosts, poltergeists, inexplicable movement of items and apports etc.,. In other words, with regard to these "shadow people", we often resort to saying it's may be interdimensional. I've done this myself. I've often wondered if it is a type of, "leakage" from another dimension but I really have no business suggesting it when I don't have any real understanding of such concepts. Hey, even physicists struggle with interdimensionality. The "old hag" is almost always explained away as hypnagogic hallucinations/sleep paralysis. We don't even clearly understand what they are and yet I see so often, such experiences are dismissed out of hand, as such.

 

[Graylien]

Multi Hat Man

 

[Mythopoeika]

 

[GeorgeP]

 

[Andy X]

You may have been peering into another dimension, perhaps that area contains what is termed a window area.

...possibly a dimension filled with overrated French comedians!

Just kidding, Tati fans!

 

[Krepostnoi]

... seeing weird faces as I was drifting off to sleep. Nighmarish old men sort of screaming at me.

I used to get this a lot. I saw the faces as screaming demons, rather than old men, but it sounds like the same sort of thing. Funnily enough, when I first stumbled across these august boards, I found a thread describing the same phenomenon. One poster suggested asking the faces "what do you want?", finding this to be an excellent way of banishing the images. I've tried the same thing, with great success. These days, it's only very rarely that the faces emerge, and that question still seems to dispel them.

Which is odd, because I always used to explain the faces away to myself as random firings of my optical nerves as my body fell asleep, and the human tendency to try and discern patterns, especially faces, in what is seen, rather than me looking through some kind of dimensional window or anything of that nature. In fact, I still incline to that being the far more likely explanation. Which then begs the question of why my usual response to these internal Rorshach tests was to interpret the images as being souls screaming in torment or with malicious intent

Finally, for what it's worth, I recall seeing these images in my childhood, and they continued right through to relatively recently, well into my adult years (as I remark above, I still occasionally see them). I have lived in many different places in my life, so they do not seem obviously linked to a particular geographic location. They can be disconcerting, but what strikes me as I type is my surprise when I learned that not everyone seems to see them.

 

[GeorgeP]

I used to get this a lot. I saw the faces as screaming demons, rather than old men, but it sounds like the same sort of thing. Funnily enough, when I first stumbled across these august boards, I found a thread describing the same phenomenon. One poster suggested asking the faces "what do you want?", finding this to be an excellent way of banishing the images. I've tried the same thing, with great success. These days, it's only very rarely that the faces emerge, and that question still seems to dispel them.

Which is odd, because I always used to explain the faces away to myself as random firings of my optical nerves as my body fell asleep, and the human tendency to try and discern patterns, especially faces, in what is seen, rather than me looking through some kind of dimensional window or anything of that nature. In fact, I still incline to that being the far more likely explanation. Which then begs the question of why my usual response to these internal Rorshach tests was to interpret the images as being souls screaming in torment or with malicious intent

Finally, for what it's worth, I recall seeing these images in my childhood, and they continued right through to relatively recently, well into my adult years (as I remark above, I still occasionally see them). I have lived in many different places in my life, so they do not seem obviously linked to a particular geographic location. They can be disconcerting, but what strikes me as I type is my surprise when I learned that not everyone seems to see them.

I never knew that, thanks Krep.

 

[Old_Shoe]

I remember being 3 or 4 years old and being in my second story bedroom in our duplex. I distinctly remember seeing a black man in white coveralls walk out of my closet, through the bedroom and out the bedroom door. It freaked me out and I was always afraid to be alone in that room after that. Thinking back on it and trying to rationalize it, it may have been nothing more than some technician or repairman, but WHY he would be in my closet makes no sense to me. It's a well known fact that young kids see and experience things that adults don't. One explanation for this is that young kids haven't yet developed "filters" to prevent themselves from seeing these things. I wonder if maybe there's another possible explanation, that the young undeveloped human mind is simply prone to hallucinations. The common themes like the hat man may be just a psychological archetype. I'm just spitballin' here.

 

[LauraRoslin]

I used to get this a lot. I saw the faces as screaming demons, rather than old men, but SNIPPED8<8<8<8<8<.

There's that "demons" association again. I see demons used as an explanation for so much forteana. As if ascribing such a designation is the answer, when in fact, all it does is explain one mystery with another. It seems to be a that it is a predominently USA attempt to explain anything freaky and some get quite irate when you question their simplistic approach to something that is not only mysterious but bears no obvious religious significance at all.

 

[Krepostnoi]

There's that "demons" association again. I see demons used as an explanation for so much forteana. As if ascribing such a designation is the answer, when in fact, all it does is explain one mystery with another. It seems to be a that it is a predominently USA attempt to explain anything freaky and some get quite irate when you question their simplistic approach to something that is not only mysterious but bears no obvious religious significance at all.

Wow, Laura, it sounds like the word "demon" carries a lot of freight for you, and I'm sorry that my post triggered such a response within you. I wasn't trying to suggest that demons would explain everything, far from it - I was merely trying to reach for a label that I thought would quickly convey the kind of images I was seeing, and the horror they could evoke within me. As I tried to say in my second paragraph, the most likely explanation in my view is that it is some sort of visual indigestion, a belch of the optic nerve. That said, there are still two mysteries that remain for me: firstly, why I interpret the results in the way I do, and secondly why mentally posing that question should act to dispel the images.

I really value your response, as it has caused me to reflect further on my interpretation of the visual information I was receiving: I have no ties to the USA, I've never even visited. I grew up in the north of England. When I was very little my parents were practising Methodists, but they have been lapsed for most of my life. Furthermore, the Methodists are not nearly as big on the hellfire and brimstone imagery as, say, the Catholic Church seems to be. I'm pretty agnostic, and have been throughout my life. So I can't say that demons have any particular currency for me, beyond whatever their usual place happens to be in my shared cultural background. It is curious, then, that I should have selected what I accept is quite a loaded term as a label to describe what my optic nerve was sending to my brain. (I suppose I should acknowledge the possibility that the optic nerve might have had nowt to do with it, and it could all be brain activity from start to finish. My knowledge of neurobiology is insufficient to be more precise.) Most likely, it is simply a retrospective interpretation, influenced by my having seen similar images elsewhere.

 

[Ulalume]

For some reason, the page I linked to in my previous post disappeared.
Here's an excerpt, lest it disappear again. I do have the feeling it might be relevant somehow.

In Jungian psychology, the shadow or "shadow aspect" may refer to (1) an unconscious aspect of the personality which the conscious ego does not identify in itself. Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative, or (2) the entirety of the unconscious, i.e., everything of which a person is not fully conscious. There are, however, positive aspects which may also remain hidden in one's shadow (especially in people with low self-esteem). Contrary to a Freudian definition of shadow, therefore, the Jungian shadow can include everything outside the light of consciousness, and may be positive or negative. "Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts, which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.
According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to psychological projection, in which a perceived personal inferiority is recognised as a perceived moral deficiency in someone else. Jung writes that if these projections remain hidden, "The projection-making factor (the Shadow archetype) then has a free hand and can realize its object--if it has one--or bring about some other situation characteristic of its power." These projections insulate and harm individuals by acting as a constantly thickening veil of illusion between the ego and the real world.
...
The encounter with the shadow plays a central part in the process of individuation. Jung considered that 'the course of individuation...exhibits a certain formal regularity. Its signposts and milestones are various archetypal symbols' marking its stages; and of these 'the first stage leads to the experience of the SHADOW'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)#Appearance

All this is not to say (IMO, anyway - lots of people would disagree with this) that "shadow people" don't exist on some plane or interact with our own. I have serious questions about how the human unconscious (collective or otherwise) does interact with our own reality. Especially if - as some speculate - the mind is not located solely within the brain.

I believe the unconscious is capable of showing us things, not only in dreams but in waking life as well. It does not use language, however, but symbols and symbolic gestures instead.

Re: hypnogogic hallucinations -
I posted my own experience here:
http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/seeing-through-closed-eyelids.58739/page-2
As I said there, at first I could not believe that such things would originate from my unconscious mind. They were too awful to make up. What the therapist meant by "the unconscious doesn't work that way" was that of course I was unaware of such things being originated in my unconscious mind - because it was unconscious.

After much thinking about it, I came to realize that it was much more likely that they were coming from the dark depths of my own mind, rather that coming from somewhere outside of me. The mechanism was much simpler, for one thing. And it was no less fascinating, really. The thing was, at that time in my life, I was living among some dangerous situations, but because of my youth and my upbringing, I didn't truly understand the danger. I thought it was "just life". I didn't even relate my severe depression to those life circumstances. Since then I've come to see the hypnagogic hallucinations and the other creepy things that happened during that time as a desperate warning. My conscious mind wasn't "getting it" enough to save myself, so my unconscious began to signal all sorts of scary things to get me to act in self-preservation.

Not saying that this is the correct or only explanation for such things, only that it rang true in my situation.

 

[GeorgeP]

There's that "demons" association again. I see demons used as an explanation for so much forteana. As if ascribing such a designation is the answer, when in fact, all it does is explain one mystery with another. It seems to be a that it is a predominently USA attempt to explain anything freaky and some get quite irate when you question their simplistic approach to something that is not only mysterious but bears no obvious religious significance at all.

Yep, Ive watched a few US ghost investigation shows and alot of them explain anything black and shadowy as being a demon. I always thought demons had horns and reddish skin with big yellow teeth Poor and idel attempt (those shows) to explain away something they/we still don't understand.

 

[GeorgeP]

For some reason, the page I linked to in my previous post disappeared.
Here's an excerpt, lest it disappear again. I do have the feeling it might be relevant somehow.

ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)#Appearance


I believe the unconscious is capable of showing us things, not only in dreams but in waking life as well. It does not use language, however, but symbols and symbolic gestures instead.

I agree. Symbolism is the universal language.

 

[LauraRoslin]

Wow, Laura, it sounds like the word "demon" carries a lot of freight for you, and I'm sorry that my post triggered such a response within you. I wasn't trying to suggest that demons would explain everything, far from it - I was merely trying to reach for a label that I thought would quickly convey the kind of images I was seeing, and the horror they could evoke within me. As I tried to say in my second paragraph, the most likely explanation in my view is that it is some sort of visual indigestion, a belch of the optic nerve. That said, there are still two mysteries that remain for me: firstly, why I interpret the results in the way I do, and secondly why mentally posing that question should act to dispel the images.

I really value your response, as it has caused me to reflect further on my interpretation of the visual information I was receiving: I have no ties to the USA, I've never even visited. I grew up in the north of England. When I was very little my parents were practising Methodists, but they have been lapsed for most of my life. Furthermore, the Methodists are not nearly as big on the hellfire and brimstone imagery as, say, the Catholic Church seems to be. I'm pretty agnostic, and have been throughout my life. So I can't say that demons have any particular currency for me, beyond whatever their usual place happens to be in my shared cultural background. It is curious, then, that I should have selected what I accept is quite a loaded term as a label to describe what my optic nerve was sending to my brain. (I suppose I should acknowledge the possibility that the optic nerve might have had nowt to do with it, and it could all be brain activity from start to finish. My knowledge of neurobiology is insufficient to be more precise.) Most likely, it is simply a retrospective interpretation, influenced by my having seen similar images elsewhere.

Oops.., my bad. I actually was referring to a link I think I found on here about the hat man, and it seemed that demons was the answer for a lot of people without actually saying what a demon actually is. Although my impression was that it related to christianity's dark side. (as they define it). You have nothing to apologise for. I'm not bothered by it. More amused by the fact, as I said, that some people try to explain one mystery by invoking another.

 

[Graylien]

I used to get this a lot. I saw the faces as screaming demons, rather than old men, but it sounds like the same sort of thing.

That's fascinating. How 'real' do they look? Do they look like actual physical beings, or more like projections/holograms?

 

[Andy X]

It's a well known fact that young kids see and experience things that adults don't. One explanation for this is that young kids haven't yet developed "filters" to prevent themselves from seeing these things. I wonder if maybe there's another possible explanation, that the young undeveloped human mind is simply prone to hallucinations. The common themes like the hat man may be just a psychological archetype.

I tend to think it's probably the latter kind of explanation but even simpler than Jung's shadow aspect theory: projections of thought-forms from the subconscious or even the conscious mind too (why not??) becoming blended into 'reality' as experienced by the kid - via a brain that hasn't quite learned how to function like that of a 'normal' adult.

To hark back to my little story (TL;DR: aged five years saw a 'shadow man' figure who I called 'Mister Nobody'). It occurs to me now that as I'd used that nickname for 'him' (it was a common phrase around our household) I'm pretty sure I must've already speculated about how a 'Mister Nobody' would look - rather than assume he was invisible. And so I either a) without conscious effort, conjured him up to briefly enliven a boring trip to the shops or b) 'saw', or perceived something that adults couldn't and used my 'Nobody' character to represent it in my model of reality - to fill in the gap.

As children interacting with imaginary friends / QCCs and so on is so utterly commonplace I reckon this is a more likely (and less alarming) explanation than little demons running about all over the place

BTW by the same token I used to see faces as clear as day when fully awake at the age of three or four - in wallpaper and furniture for example - including popular childrens' TV presenters of the day* and it wasn't in the least bit scary. I remember it being fun, exciting and magical. That has nothing to do with shadowmen, but was unspooky in nature and tends to point to some dodgy wiring in the developing brain perhaps.

* not that one.

 

[Krepostnoi]

That's fascinating. How 'real' do they look? Do they look like actual physical beings, or more like projections/holograms?

I'm finding that quite a challenging question to answer, but I'll do my best. I think the projection/hologram notion is a useful departure point. I see the faces - actually, it makes more sense in this context to talk about them as heads - floating against a black background (as you might expect, what with my eyes being closed. Also, I should add that I cannot recall ever seeing these faces when my eyes are shut but I'm in a light environment. The background must, apparently, be very dark.) There are no bodies attached, just the heads.

It begins with random patterns of "light" (as I say, there is no obvious light source in the room), which are at the centre of my gaze. If I move my eyes, the patterns move correspondingly - to be melodramatic about it, there is no looking away. The colours of the light tend to be what I can only describe as bilious: e.g. a greeny-yellow or a purple-ish sort of shade. Not attractive. These then coalesce into the faces, and the striking thing is that they either are already facing me, or they turn to face me, and there is the distinct impression that they are meeting my eyes. It can be very unsettling, especially with the more horrific faces that emerge. The faces never stay the same for very long, they are constantly transforming in quite a fluid series. As I have alluded to, some are more scary than others, but all seem to be distinctly unpleasant. They seem either to be grimacing in a threatening manner or screaming in torment. Either way, again, it is not a pleasant thing to behold.

I suppose another obvious question is how long these visions (for want of a better word) last for. I've never had a stopwatch on, but subjectively they can seem to last for a long time, at least until I hit upon the questioning tactic that I mentioned upthread. The more I fixate upon them, the longer they persist, and of course once I start seeing them, it is difficult not to fixate on them. Interestingly, last night, as I was falling asleep, the question was obviously on my mind, but although I was seeing the flashes of light that are the precursor to the faces appearing, they never actually resolved into any faces.

Please don't hesitate to ask if any of the above is not clear, or if there is something I did not address. For my part, I would be fascinated to hear whether what I describe above resonates with those of you who have reported seeing similar things.

 

[GeorgeP]

It begins with random patterns of "light" (as I say, there is no obvious light source in the room), which are at the centre of my gaze. If I move my eyes, the patterns move correspondingly - to be melodramatic about it, there is no looking away. The colours of the light tend to be what I can only describe as bilious: e.g. a greeny-yellow or a purple-ish sort of shade. Not attractive. These then coalesce into the faces, and the striking thing is that they either are already facing me, or they turn to face me, and there is the distinct impression that they are meeting my eyes. It can be very unsettling, especially with the more horrific faces that emerge. The faces never stay the same for very long, they are constantly transforming in quite a fluid series. As I have alluded to, some are more scary than others, but all seem to be distinctly unpleasant. They seem either to be grimacing in a threatening manner or screaming in torment. Either way, again, it is not a pleasant thing to behold.

Sometimes I experience this and totally agree with your feelings when observing them. They (the faces) always seem to home in on your line of vision. Some just stare at you whilst others seem intent on scaring you. Krep, have you ever discerned images other than faces such as outlines of structures,buildings and the like?

 

[henry]

how strange i had this exact phenomenon through my twenties/early thirties, was never unpleasant, a endless series of lined old faces, all men i think, one after the other turning towards me as i was descending into sleep ... i always thought, pressure on eyes (i sleep with face on my forearm) combined with pareidolia ... these days i dont sleep long enough to experience it

 

[charliechar1234]

Only last night I also saw these faces behind my eyes, all against a black background, I do remember one of them as being sort of an off-green colour with sharp teeth, and it looked like it was screaming. It's not the first time I've seen the faces either. I'd definitely agree with Krepostnoi's account!

 

[LauraRoslin]

how strange i had this exact phenomenon through my twenties/early thirties, was never unpleasant, a endless series of lined old faces, all men i think, one after the other turning towards me as i was descending into sleep ... i always thought, pressure on eyes (i sleep with face on my forearm) combined with pareidolia ... these days i dont sleep long enough to experience it

That's such a common theme. The series of lined old faces. I don't recall anything being anything but male. Fascinating.

 

[Krepostnoi]

I finally had the wit to try searching earlier threads to see if I could track down the advice to ask a question of the faces. If you enter "sleep faces" in the search forums box, then many threads come up - it clearly is quite a common phenomenon. I find there is a certain comfort in realising this. I am still puzzled as to what the mechanism might be by which the question dispels the faces, though (much as I am grateful to have a strategy that works).

@GeorgeP, I only remember doing so once, thinking I could "see" the objects and furniture in the room even though my eyes were closed. Never anything else.

 

[henry]

That's such a common theme. The series of lined old faces. I don't recall anything being anything but male. Fascinating.

maybe this should be a standalone thread as i smell a hijack from the op ... seems almost quaint so say op nowadays ... this seems to be heading into the big/small sensory phenomenon dream territory in terms of commonality ... 11-year-old fortean sidekick has been having an interesting version of that on and off for a couple of years

 

[Krepostnoi]

maybe this should be a standalone thread as i smell a hijack from the op ...

You're right, my apologies @LauraRoslin. Can we flag down a passing mod and ask them to winnow out the sleep posts from the shadowmen? As my belated search suggests, there are plenty of more suitable threads to graft them into.

 

[LauraRoslin]

Nice one!

My kind-o' guy.

 

[Ringo]

Only last night I also saw these faces behind my eyes, all against a black background, I do remember one of them as being sort of an off-green colour with sharp teeth, and it looked like it was screaming. It's not the first time I've seen the faces either. I'd definitely agree with Krepostnoi's account!

This sprang to mind when you said that.

And as someone else mentioned, Shadow Hat Man made me think of Henry Kane from Poltergeist immediately.

"Are you lost, Sweetheart? Are you 'fraid , honey?""

 

[GeorgeP]

This sprang to mind when you said that.

Ive coded stuff like that - more pleasant looking though - using TYPES & rotated and scaled sprites.