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GeorgeP
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...and this guy perhaps...
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This brings something else to mind -
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You may have been peering into another dimension, perhaps that area contains what is termed a window area.
There-in lies the conundrum. Attempting to explain one mystery by using another. I see that happen a lot, particularly in this type of area. e.g. ghosts, poltergeists, inexplicable movement of items and apports etc.,. In other words, with regard to these "shadow people", we often resort to saying it's may be interdimensional. I've done this myself. I've often wondered if it is a type of, "leakage" from another dimension but I really have no business suggesting it when I don't have any real understanding of such concepts. Hey, even physicists struggle with interdimensionality. The "old hag" is almost always explained away as hypnagogic hallucinations/sleep paralysis. We don't even clearly understand what they are and yet I see so often, such experiences are dismissed out of hand, as such.
You may have been peering into another dimension, perhaps that area contains what is termed a window area.
... seeing weird faces as I was drifting off to sleep. Nighmarish old men sort of screaming at me.
I used to get this a lot. I saw the faces as screaming demons, rather than old men, but it sounds like the same sort of thing. Funnily enough, when I first stumbled across these august boards, I found a thread describing the same phenomenon. One poster suggested asking the faces "what do you want?", finding this to be an excellent way of banishing the images. I've tried the same thing, with great success. These days, it's only very rarely that the faces emerge, and that question still seems to dispel them.
Which is odd, because I always used to explain the faces away to myself as random firings of my optical nerves as my body fell asleep, and the human tendency to try and discern patterns, especially faces, in what is seen, rather than me looking through some kind of dimensional window or anything of that nature. In fact, I still incline to that being the far more likely explanation. Which then begs the question of why my usual response to these internal Rorshach tests was to interpret the images as being souls screaming in torment or with malicious intent
Finally, for what it's worth, I recall seeing these images in my childhood, and they continued right through to relatively recently, well into my adult years (as I remark above, I still occasionally see them). I have lived in many different places in my life, so they do not seem obviously linked to a particular geographic location. They can be disconcerting, but what strikes me as I type is my surprise when I learned that not everyone seems to see them.
There's that "demons" association again. I see demons used as an explanation for so much forteana. As if ascribing such a designation is the answer, when in fact, all it does is explain one mystery with another. It seems to be a that it is a predominently USA attempt to explain anything freaky and some get quite irate when you question their simplistic approach to something that is not only mysterious but bears no obvious religious significance at all.I used to get this a lot. I saw the faces as screaming demons, rather than old men, but SNIPPED8<8<8<8<8<.
There's that "demons" association again. I see demons used as an explanation for so much forteana. As if ascribing such a designation is the answer, when in fact, all it does is explain one mystery with another. It seems to be a that it is a predominently USA attempt to explain anything freaky and some get quite irate when you question their simplistic approach to something that is not only mysterious but bears no obvious religious significance at all.
In Jungian psychology, the shadow or "shadow aspect" may refer to (1) an unconscious aspect of the personality which the conscious ego does not identify in itself. Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative, or (2) the entirety of the unconscious, i.e., everything of which a person is not fully conscious. There are, however, positive aspects which may also remain hidden in one's shadow (especially in people with low self-esteem). Contrary to a Freudian definition of shadow, therefore, the Jungian shadow can include everything outside the light of consciousness, and may be positive or negative. "Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts, which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.
According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to psychological projection, in which a perceived personal inferiority is recognised as a perceived moral deficiency in someone else. Jung writes that if these projections remain hidden, "The projection-making factor (the Shadow archetype) then has a free hand and can realize its object--if it has one--or bring about some other situation characteristic of its power." These projections insulate and harm individuals by acting as a constantly thickening veil of illusion between the ego and the real world.
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The encounter with the shadow plays a central part in the process of individuation. Jung considered that 'the course of individuation...exhibits a certain formal regularity. Its signposts and milestones are various archetypal symbols' marking its stages; and of these 'the first stage leads to the experience of the SHADOW'
There's that "demons" association again. I see demons used as an explanation for so much forteana. As if ascribing such a designation is the answer, when in fact, all it does is explain one mystery with another. It seems to be a that it is a predominently USA attempt to explain anything freaky and some get quite irate when you question their simplistic approach to something that is not only mysterious but bears no obvious religious significance at all.
For some reason, the page I linked to in my previous post disappeared.
Here's an excerpt, lest it disappear again. I do have the feeling it might be relevant somehow.
ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)#Appearance
I believe the unconscious is capable of showing us things, not only in dreams but in waking life as well. It does not use language, however, but symbols and symbolic gestures instead.
Wow, Laura, it sounds like the word "demon" carries a lot of freight for you, and I'm sorry that my post triggered such a response within you. I wasn't trying to suggest that demons would explain everything, far from it - I was merely trying to reach for a label that I thought would quickly convey the kind of images I was seeing, and the horror they could evoke within me. As I tried to say in my second paragraph, the most likely explanation in my view is that it is some sort of visual indigestion, a belch of the optic nerve. That said, there are still two mysteries that remain for me: firstly, why I interpret the results in the way I do, and secondly why mentally posing that question should act to dispel the images.
I really value your response, as it has caused me to reflect further on my interpretation of the visual information I was receiving: I have no ties to the USA, I've never even visited. I grew up in the north of England. When I was very little my parents were practising Methodists, but they have been lapsed for most of my life. Furthermore, the Methodists are not nearly as big on the hellfire and brimstone imagery as, say, the Catholic Church seems to be. I'm pretty agnostic, and have been throughout my life. So I can't say that demons have any particular currency for me, beyond whatever their usual place happens to be in my shared cultural background. It is curious, then, that I should have selected what I accept is quite a loaded term as a label to describe what my optic nerve was sending to my brain. (I suppose I should acknowledge the possibility that the optic nerve might have had nowt to do with it, and it could all be brain activity from start to finish. My knowledge of neurobiology is insufficient to be more precise.) Most likely, it is simply a retrospective interpretation, influenced by my having seen similar images elsewhere.
I used to get this a lot. I saw the faces as screaming demons, rather than old men, but it sounds like the same sort of thing.
It's a well known fact that young kids see and experience things that adults don't. One explanation for this is that young kids haven't yet developed "filters" to prevent themselves from seeing these things. I wonder if maybe there's another possible explanation, that the young undeveloped human mind is simply prone to hallucinations. The common themes like the hat man may be just a psychological archetype.
I'm finding that quite a challenging question to answer, but I'll do my best. I think the projection/hologram notion is a useful departure point. I see the faces - actually, it makes more sense in this context to talk about them as heads - floating against a black background (as you might expect, what with my eyes being closed. Also, I should add that I cannot recall ever seeing these faces when my eyes are shut but I'm in a light environment. The background must, apparently, be very dark.) There are no bodies attached, just the heads.That's fascinating. How 'real' do they look? Do they look like actual physical beings, or more like projections/holograms?
It begins with random patterns of "light" (as I say, there is no obvious light source in the room), which are at the centre of my gaze. If I move my eyes, the patterns move correspondingly - to be melodramatic about it, there is no looking away. The colours of the light tend to be what I can only describe as bilious: e.g. a greeny-yellow or a purple-ish sort of shade. Not attractive. These then coalesce into the faces, and the striking thing is that they either are already facing me, or they turn to face me, and there is the distinct impression that they are meeting my eyes. It can be very unsettling, especially with the more horrific faces that emerge. The faces never stay the same for very long, they are constantly transforming in quite a fluid series. As I have alluded to, some are more scary than others, but all seem to be distinctly unpleasant. They seem either to be grimacing in a threatening manner or screaming in torment. Either way, again, it is not a pleasant thing to behold.
how strange i had this exact phenomenon through my twenties/early thirties, was never unpleasant, a endless series of lined old faces, all men i think, one after the other turning towards me as i was descending into sleep ... i always thought, pressure on eyes (i sleep with face on my forearm) combined with pareidolia ... these days i dont sleep long enough to experience it
maybe this should be a standalone thread as i smell a hijack from the op ... seems almost quaint so say op nowadays ... this seems to be heading into the big/small sensory phenomenon dream territory in terms of commonality ... 11-year-old fortean sidekick has been having an interesting version of that on and off for a couple of yearsThat's such a common theme. The series of lined old faces. I don't recall anything being anything but male. Fascinating.
maybe this should be a standalone thread as i smell a hijack from the op ...
My kind-o' guy.Nice one!
This sprang to mind when you said that.Only last night I also saw these faces behind my eyes, all against a black background, I do remember one of them as being sort of an off-green colour with sharp teeth, and it looked like it was screaming. It's not the first time I've seen the faces either. I'd definitely agree with Krepostnoi's account!
This sprang to mind when you said that.