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The Teaching Of Creationism

It's the kind of dangerous nonsense that makes people easier to control. Sort of a giant species-wide guilt-trip.

'God created you, so you must do what he says. Incidentally, he only talks to you lot through us...'
 
Yes, Rich, each of the theoretical constructs you mention work well enough in their own terms. But I wasn't calling Einsteinian physics "wrong" as such, I was just pointing out that Einstein's acknowledged antipathy toward quantum physics was unfounded. For an entertaining discussion of how newer theoretical constructs can subsume earlier ones, I think that Douglas Hofstadter's "Godel Escher Bach - An Eternal Golden Braid" still takes some beating even twenty years since its first publication. Well worth a look if you can find a copy.

As for what motivates the desperation of the creationists, I'd have to say that the term "existential dread" just about sums it up. Scratch almost anyone who spends their time in religious pursuits and, if you scratch deep enough, you'll eventually come across an abiding fear of meaninglessness and death. Add to that the sort of desire for control that Inverurie Jones mentions. "If everyone believes this to be true then it's sure to be true and we'll all live forever if we're good." - sort of thing.
 
I think we need to ask ourselves whether the Bible is a book of theology or a book of science. It cannot be both. Yes, evolution is an imperfect theory. This is because it is young and there is a great deal that we do not know within the biological sciences. However, creationist science appears more flawed. If we were to accept Genesis as being a literal truth then we'd have to abandon geology, many biological sciences and many physical sciences as we know them today. The only thing left would probably be pure chemistry.

I've studied biological sciences for quite a few years and I am constantly awed by the complexity of life. I waver between wondering if evolution was responsible or whether a 'creator' god exists because it is amazing! Truly amazing and there is still so much that we don't know! For example, the process of fertilisation still hasn't been fully explained i.e. the re-creation of the human genome from two half-genomes. Look at a text book devoted to the molecular cell biology and all you'll get is about five lines in a thousand pages. Mitochondria is another example. I mean, are they mad or what? What are they all about?

Personally I think that anyone who doesn't give science any serious study is missing out on a lot. The universe is a wondrous thing.
 
Looking at the complexity, I find the idea of a creator robsthe universe of its charm. To me, its actually more of a wonder that it turned up on the knife edge of chance, rather than was made.

Perchance and odd view, but mine own :)

8¬)
 
harlequin said:
Looking at the complexity, I find the idea of a creator robsthe universe of its charm.

I find the way people come up with stories like "Aliens helped us build the pyramids" robs us (humans) of our charm. We'd be a pretty dull bunch without being able to build colossal geometric monuments to bizarre deities.

Also, when people say "creation science" they are speaking nonsense. Science is only what can be detected and measured and proven, none of these things can you do with the creation story.
They only call it that because they are insecure about it (nobody says "evolution science"-do they?), if it was a real science they would call it "creation theory" or "the creation hypothesis" - but of course it isn't real science.

My "creation theory" is that the whole book of Genesis is like a parable. The bible is full of symbolic stories, so why not? It's just very powerful, wonderful, exciting, inspiring myth. Isn't that enough?
 
Yup, same thing with the pyramids. We're clever monkeys... people should learn to deal with it

8¬)
 
I may be wrong, but I suspect that the college in question (Emmanuel City Technical College) is situated in a predominantly Jewish area of Gateshead and is in fact a Talmudic college. This might go some way to explaining the creationist stance of its staff. To allow the possibility of evolution would probably be considered a heretical standpoint.
 
Return to the Cave...

'Creationism' school opens its doors

A new £20m school which will teach biblical creation, opens on Teesside on Monday.

The King's Academy in Middlesbrough, is a partnership between the Department for Education and the Wearside-based Vardy Foundation.

It is a sister facility to Gateshead's Emmanuel College, which already has a "creationism" curriculum.

The boss of Sunderland-based car dealership Reg Vardy has provided much of the cash for the school - and plans more throughout the UK.

Pupils there are taught biblical creationism - the belief that the Old Testament account of creation is true - along with evolutionary theory.

The new 1,150-pupil Middlesbrough school stands in a 30-acre site and replaces the former Coulby Newham and Brackenhoe schools.

King's Academy principal, Nigel McQuoid, said: "The academy's principal objectives are to increase educational opportunities and to provide the very best learning experience for the young people of Middlesbrough.

"Our goal will be to deliver highly skilled, well qualified, confident, enterprising, creative and moral citizens who are ready for the adult world.

"However, most of all, we hope to see young people emerge with a set of personal and spiritual values which will sustain and inspire them through life."

The teaching of biblical creation in schools has been criticised by Richard Dawkins, professor of the public understanding of science at Oxford University.

He said: "To call evolution a faith position equated with creationism is educational debauchery.

"It is teaching something that is utter nonsense. Evolution is supported by mountains of scientific evidence."

Sir Peter Vardy said: "Already, this school is over-subscribed, so there is demand from parents and students for organisations like this.

"We are not brainwashing children, what we are trying to do is put something back into the region."

The national curriculum requires that Darwinian evolution is put across as the dominant scientific theory, but also requires that pupils are taught "how scientific controversies can result from different ways of interpreting empirical data".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/3088444.stm
=====================================

Evolution is just a single theory among many and there are many disputes around the precise details but Biblical Creationism is not on a par with such theories as no supporting evidence and plenty of contradictory evidence is available. I'm not sure whether to be :( or bloody :mad: at the news that the two will be taught side by side. Although they note that the curriculum obliges teachers to place Evolution as the dominant paradigm you just know that any school willing to utter the two in the same breath or treat them as aspects of the same study, clearly has an agenda the likes of which i loathe. :hmph:

It is a sister facility to Gateshead's Emmanuel College, which already has a "creationism" curriculum

See here for details: http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2622&highlight=creationism+school
 
"Our goal will be to deliver highly skilled, well qualified, confident, enterprising, creative and moral citizens who are ready for the adult world."


they missed out, questioning in the list....oh sorry they dont want that do they.
 
Bump! Yith's new thread tacked on to earlier one about the Gateshead school.
 
Ah only up North eh? :d

Glad im moving to scotland at the end of the month
 
one of my mates from uni did biology and in his lectures sat next to a christian girl (of the strange variaty) who onced threatened under her breath about kicking off next time the lecturer made a joke about the whole creationist belief system.

i attended a couple of these lectures hoping to watch this mad one kick off but sadly the lecturers future digs at creationism where much more restrained.
 
Young Earth Creationists are simply wrong. That is, if you do not totally reject the tenets of science.

There is simply NO evidence to back up the claim, other then a literal interpretation of the bible.

NONE. The evidence that is often given by YEC's is scienfitically flawed. From the decay of the magnetic field on earth (WRONG, it fluctuates in a cyclical nature, we are in a down cycle), to the contraction of the sun (againa cyclical thing, that has been verified/modeled).

There is simply no evidence. None. Not a bit of it. Anyone who preaches creationism is totally at odds with science of today.

Evolution is not perfect. Evolution today is NOT simply darwin's theories. From the claims that no microevolution exists (Wrong, we have bone fossils to go by: fleshy adaptations don't show, and minor differences could be transitional OR simply intra-species variation... of course that's ignoring the dozens of species of pre-cursor apes discovered). To the fact that scientific categorization is arbitrary, an either or system.

Simply put, the only evidence for YEC is the bible. And, at that, you need to literally interpret the bible. Anyone who argues YEC arguably does not understand science, or totally misconstrues science to try to illustrate their view point. From the misquotation of sources, to basically totally making stuff up (kent hovind) YECs simply have no scientific ground to stand on. Oh yes, lets not forget all the other "science" in the bible. The sun is about the size of your head, the stars hang just above the earth, that clouds are god's foot prints upon the sky, that the earth is the center of the universe, etc. etc. Creationism is no more scientifically relevant then any of those other biblical "facts".

For pretty much a rebuttal to all the pseudo/flawed science of creationists, see http://www.talkorigins.net

Creationism should NOT be taught except in a strict fundamentalist setting, as it is a product of strict fundamentalist christianity.
 
Oh it's so simple!

Prove beyond reasonable doubt that the process of evolution (option 3 above, under "known options") is the only possible way the observed phenomena could have come into existence

So all I need to do to collect 250 000 dollars is to convince a religious fundamentalist beyond a reasonable doubt that evolution is true, and as well I have to prove a whole lot of negatives as well!

BTW, I suggest people go to talkorigins.net and look up Kent hovind in the search engine.

He is truly the finest mind churned out of the false diploma mills in the United States!

Oh by the way, he has pictures of dinosaurs in the 20th century! I am converted!

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By the way, Kent Hovind is one of those rabid fundamentalists without even a basic understanding of science, who then tries to use dubious or even blatantly false/misleading examples to further his agenda.

BTW, I have no problem with YECs who simply state "this is my belief, I believe the bible and therefore believe this". Those who try to defend or propagate the belief through pseudoscience, including those who seek to have creationism taught in school, I do have a problem with.

Just as I'd have a problem with public schools teaching my kid Allah is great, that Loki steals socks, that the earth is upon the back of a turtle, or that thetans are the cause of all earths problems and btw can we have money. In other words, people who try to push indoctrination upon kids instead of allowing them to decide for themselves.
 
So all I need to do to collect 250 000 dollars is to convince a religious fundamentalist beyond a reasonable doubt that evolution is true, and as well I have to prove a whole lot of negatives as well!

lock them in a pitch black room for a couple of days that isn't big enough to stand up or lie down with white noise being played at an almost deafening volume. after that they be ready to accept anything they tell you.

where do i collect my money? :D
 
some comments on creationism and evolutionism

To all:

There is an old truism, that truth can be distinguished by that fact that, following it, the solution to a problem can be found; and, conversely, if something does not solve a problem, then it cannot be based on the facts.

In discussing the furor between creationism and Darwinism - or general evolution - in the schools, a large part of the problem is that the argument is narrowed down to just those two alternatives! In a society that depicts itself as so progressed, so progressive, so advanced and so intellectual, it is all but a crime that not only is no other theory suggested, but that the very idea that any other theory could be considered is frowned upon! It has all the earmarks of a battle for market share, rather than a search for the truth! Each side has all their eggs in one basket, and are, apparently, more than willing to commit that grievous crime of regularly ignoring evidence, or distorting facts and reasoning, in order to keep their audience, and expand into other demographics!

In fact, there are numerous holes in Darwinism, and evolution in general. Evolutionists tend to gloss over difficulties, by saying, among other things, that "when all the facts are found, they will bear this out", or, when truly pressed by embarrassing difficulties, literally pontificating that "we already know evolution is absolutely proved, so, even if it looks unlikely, this must be in accordance with the theory"!

For example, numerous different coloring patterns could equally hide vulnerable deer fawns. Why, then, is only one pattern to be seen, namely, spots? Why are there not different phases, that is, subspecies, of each deer species, that have different coats on their young?

Evolutionists say that the fact that pellucid species - those that live at the lightless bottoms of caves - are both born blind and colorless is proof that evolution has tailored their characteristics to their surroundings. But evolution, supposedly, is also blind! It doesn't say, "There is no light; therefore, we mustn't have color in the animals." Evolution maintains those conditions that don't threaten the animals. But, in a totally black world, vivid color is not a disadvantage! There is no reason, in terms of survival, for color to be bred out of an animal that lives in caves! An animal could have bright yellow and red coloring and not be seen, deep in a cave! Why, then, does evolution, apparently, direct animals in caves toward colorlessness? And, even though they can't see in the dark, why does that automatically make their eyes atrophy genetically, eventually even being covered over with skin? And, for that matter, why doesn't that happen in the sunless deep ocean, where bright yellow batfish burrow in the soil, bright red tube worms sit next to fumeroles, and fish with giant eyes prowl for prey?

And, conveniently forgotten by Darwinists is the fact that, to get to a particular morphology, an animal has to get halfway there. And, if it is utterly questionable that they would get halfway there, there is no reason to assume they will go the whole way! Beavers, for example, regularly reconsume their own dung, because the indigestible cellulose in the original food was consumed first, leaving the nutrients behind, so what is excreted has to be eaten again, to obtain the full nutrition. What would possess an animal to consume its own dung, in order to evolve in such a way that it can eat cellulose fiber? Why wouldn't it just change its eating habits? Bear have complicated and involved internal chemistries that allow them to survive in near cryogenic freezing, but they, likely, at one time, didn't have those systems! They didn't spring into being, one winter, though, to allow them to survive the cold, and any one of any proto-bear species that tried to survive without those systems, or with even a portion of them, would not have been alive later to breed, to pass on what they had!

In light of this, the elegant interplay between flowering plants and insects is particularly knotty to explain by evolution. The symbiosis between flowers and bees, for example, involves the flowers not being able to cross pollinate; bees "developing", for some reason, leg fur that carries pollen; flowers developing extruding stamen; bees searching for nectar; bees storing the nectar, for some reason, in leg sacs, right next to where the leg fur would brush against the stamen; flowers providing nectar, and advertising it with scent; bees being able to see only a few colors; and flowers providing those colors on their petals. Did flowers have protruding stamen before bees started visiting them? Did bees have leg sacs before learning to get nectar from flowers? Why did bees visit flowers, in the first place, if flowers didn't have scent and color? And add to that the apparently self-defeating aspect that nothing, evidently, causes bees to visit the same breed of flower each time; bees can visit any number of different types of flowers at one time, vastly lowering the likelihood of transferring pollen successfully from one member to a species to another, and, at the same time, lowering the “survival benefit” of the nascent process! The proposed, but, apparently, never completely spelled out interplay leading to this situation of flowers evolving color and scent to attract bees, presumably because of its “benefit” in “allowing them to flourish”, is so delicate that the slightest interruption, it seems, could have shattered the progression!

A squirrel can have curled ears, with a tuft of hair at the end and Darwinians will declare, unequivocally, that this was an optimum response to their environment. The potto, a kind of prosimian, has three long hairs in the middle of its back. No one knows what they are for, but Darwinians insist that, because Darwinism is unquestionably true, they must have a crucial survival value. And, if they turn out to be able to tell the animals how high above them another branch is, on the basis of that, the Darwinists will “conclude” that “knowing how high a branch is above them is a critical survival feature.” Never mind, though, that, as slow as a potto is, even knowing where to retreat to would not necessarily save it from an enemy.

Incidentally, this is not meant to equate evolution with Darwinism. Darwinism is only one school of evolution thought. The Greeks seem to have postulated a kind of “ladder of existence”, with a kind of pre-ordained perfection being automatically sought for by life forms. Lamarckianism, for example, suggested pangenetic alteration as a kind of semi-conscious response to environment, fostering change. Other theories, for example, would even suggest that there was some kind of non-adaptive influence by the environment, on an animal, chemicals in the surroundings, for example, being credited with changing species. This is not to suggest legitimacy in any, however, but at least one theory, the “ladder of life” almost seems to suggest an intelligent design behind what evolution may occur. And, in fact, religion may almost be willing to accept evolution if an intelligent source were invoked. It is, after all, the concept of the development of mind and soul from the nothingness, that is the foundation for the schism between religion and science, on this issue. God, after all, is credited with creating human souls from the nothingness; religion may be willing to accept evolution if an intelligent Deity were credited with it. A question might be broached, though, as to why God would go through all the preliminaries, if His interaction with man is at the core of existence.

For its own part, though, creationism does come across as something of a joke; “spiritually oriented” individuals trying to steal the panache and attractiveness of a scientific theory, by putting on a scientific-looking show, themselves. To be sure, falsity on the part of evolution would breed proofs of its inadequacy, framed in scientific terms, and verifiable by scientific standards, but that is not the road creationists have taken. Instead, they have taken the story directly from Genesis and crafted a scientific-sounding model around it. If they haven’t demonstrated the actual failure of evolution, they also haven’t fully established the inevitable correctness of their own theory.

As far as evidence, though, it is fully consistent with, say, at different times, portals opening to another world, permitting other species to enter. If there is any kind of “progression” to be seen, from one animal to another, it may be because the portals only allow creatures similar to those already here to enter. Neither theory, nor any other with wide currency, is fully compatible with observable fact.

But if creationism has, as its motivation, losing confidence in spirituality to the scientific, emphasis on evolution also has an ulterior motive. The rise of interest in the scientific has been attended by an equal tendency toward confidence in science to “answer all the questions”. Indeed, much as religion - all religions - has done, science has couched its value on its ability to “provide all the answers”. To say “I don’t know” can be as disastrous for “shills” for religion, as for science “hucksters”.

This is, incidentally, not meant to demean the value of true religion or true science, but merely to point out that there are insincere, popularity merchants, for both pursuits. Both groups using much the same methods.

And it has to be admitted, there are science “barkers”, too, promising untrue benefits and advantages, in order to avoid losing an audience! Everything can be explained in terms of four fundamental forces, three classes of lepton-neutrino families, eight quark types, three fundamental rules of mechanics, three laws of thermodynamics, Maxwell’s equations of electromagnetism, chaos theory, statistics, the Schrödinger equation, Heisenberg Uncertainty, and relativity. Nothing else is necessary. Grand Unified Theories and Theories of Everything clutter scientific institutes, these days. Everything that can ever be known, is known now. Nothing else need be added.

And to doubt the ineffable completeness and independence of what has been written so far is verboten!

Just about every college, it seems, has at least one office that has a sign with the famous quote by Lord Kelvin, at the end of the 19th century, opining that everything had been learned, and that the only thing left to do was calculate physical constants out to their last decimal places. Then, the sign reminds you, subatomic particles were discovered, and physics took off.

The lesson of that, though, seems to be wasted on the scientific community, these days, since it is like freezing helium to get them to admit that the science of today doesn’t know absolutely everything! You have a question, science will give you an answer! Actually, they will give you a response, but you are supposed to believe that it is the answer! Admitting that there isn’t a theory to cover every eventuality is poison for those in the scientific community, these days. To admit faults in any of the official doctrines is to suggest that the community isn’t doing everything it should! And that can be very dangerous.

In terms of the community being able to procure expensive research grants! If they can't prove that they have “the way” to get at the truth of anything, that calls into question whether it is a good investment to throw them endowments! To keep the money flowing, science has to paint itself in terms of utter infallibility.

In that way, science can be said to have been “oversold”. A “bill of goods”, claiming every answer to be immediately available, in some book or other!

A devoted and honorable scientist would acknowledge the flaws in evolution, and say to the waiting throng, “Give us some time, while we puzzle this out.”

Or they might even invite the throng to participate, offering their own ideas!

Instead, they have ad flacks proclaim: “Lookee! Lookee! Lookee! Right in this tent! The answer to every single question in the world! Right here! Right now! No waiting!” No matter is not immediately and completely addressable, in terms of existing dogma! And, if anything should come up that doesn’t jibe with the established order, like the potto’s three hairs, then that is taken only as an elaboration on the theory, rather than acknowledged as a legitimate challenge!

If devoted Darwinians accuse religion of invoking creationism out of a cynical search for influence, they have to admit that the scientific community has done much the same, with evolution! Neither, however, is completely satisfactory. It might be interesting to see what suggestions can be provided for the many disparities the world offers.



Julian Penrod
 
This'll have to be brief:

Interesting post and some tricky cases for Darwinian Evolution to accomodate. I entirely take your point that Scientists frequently have their own ulterior motives and interest in dogma, potentially as much as blind religious types may.

One thing i would like to pick up on however is the invocation of the ideas of scientific 'truths' as they are often misunderstood. In my opinion, the reason that Darwinism stands head and sholders above creationism, is not because it is 'more true' because for all the misleading references 'Scientific Truths' don't neccessarily have any direct connection with any actual 'truth' that is out there in the world. This is to say that although scientific theories must account for and explain states of affairs in the world, they do not have to reflect them in a strict sense. Science is, in fact, a model that paints a possible picture of the world. On this basis a scientific theory may be judged 'true' solely on the basis that it descriptive, that is to say it accounts for the observed phenomena, and is prescriptive, which is to say it can predict future phenomena. If these two criteria are met then, regardless of the actual state of affairs in the world, the theory is deemed scientifically true. If creationism attempts to compete on a scientific playing field it looses out to Darwinism on these criteria.

To clarify further, however, Scientific truths once again differ from common folk ideas of truth or possibly objective metaphysical notions. In fact, in my opinion, to say something is scientifically true is a slight prostitution of the concept of truthood. They differ as the scientific quality of truthood is a temporally based judgement: to judge a theory 'true' is to really opine that it is true now. I wholly subscribe to the Popperian understanding of science in which its products are only ever provisionally true. A model is conjectured and then a process of attempted falsification is begun through which observations like your squirrel and beaver examples are examined in order to check they can be accounted for by our model. If they cannot, the model is refined to account for them, unless the observations damage the model so powerfully that another rival model appears more efficaious (in descriptive/prescriptive terms).

It is important to realise that should the model meet all challenges poseable it is still only provisionally true regardless of foolhardy claims that it has been 'proved'. In actuality science does not work in such terms. It is still open to further potential refutatation or adaptation.

Scientific efficiousness and internal consistency should not be mistaken for any kind of objective, concrete truthood. Many do not grasp this.

Darwinism should not be seen as a 'finished job' any more than it should be seen as 'true'. In order to remain influential it must account for your observations and its inability to do so now certainly weakens it. At the moment, however, it is still the most efficaious model we have, although this in no way precludes the possibility that in the future it may be abandoned in favour of another model.

Btw. Julian, I wont even begin to mention Ockham's Razor in response to your idea of 'holes to other worlds' idea! ;) [I Jest]

Edit: grammar and phraseology corrected.
 
Re: some comments on creationism and evolutionism

julianpenrod said:
Everything that can ever be known, is known now. Nothing else need be added.

And to doubt the ineffable completeness and independence of what has been written so far is verboten!
To be honest I don't recognise this picture of fundamental science today. If it was correct, then there woudn't be all of the disagreement on where people expect the "standard model" of physics to breakdown.

Even within evolutionary theory there are disagreements between the "punctuated equilibrium" theories of Gould et al. an the rest. Read any scientific journal and you will see evidence that scientists don't believe that "Everything that can ever be known, is known now." It would be a very dull world, indeed, if that view was correct. ;)
 
Wisconsin district to teach more than evolution

Sunday, November 7, 2004 Posted: 0236 GMT (1036 HKT)


GRANTSBURG, Wisconsin (AP) -- School officials have revised the science curriculum to allow the teaching of creationism, prompting an outcry from more than 300 educators who urged that the decision be reversed.

Members of Grantsburg's school board believed that a state law governing the teaching of evolution was too restrictive. The science curriculum "should not be totally inclusive of just one scientific theory," said Joni Burgin, superintendent of the district of 1,000 students in northwest Wisconsin.

Last month, when the board examined its science curriculum, language was added calling for "various models/theories" of origin to be incorporated.

The decision provoked more than 300 biology and religious studies faculty members to write a letter last week urging the Grantsburg board to reverse the policy. It follows a letter sent previously by 43 deans at Wisconsin public universities.

"Insisting that teachers teach alternative theories of origin in biology classes takes time away from real learning, confuses some students and is a misuse of limited class time and public funds," said Don Waller, a botanist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Wisconsin law mandates that evolution be taught, but school districts are free to create their own curricular standards, said Joe Donovan, a spokesman for the state Department of Public Instruction.

There have been scattered efforts around the nation for other school boards to adopt similar measures. Last month the Dover Area School Board in Pennsylvania voted to require the teaching of alternative theories to evolution, including "intelligent design" -- the idea that life is too complex to have developed without a creator.

The state education board in Kansas was heavily criticized in 1999 when it deleted most references to evolution. The decision was reversed in 2001.

In March, the Ohio Board of Education narrowly approved a lesson plan that some critics contended opens the door to teaching creationism.

---------------
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/11/06/evolution.schools.ap/index.html
 
Hold Back The Night! Lamarkian Evolutionistas: Why We Fight!

A bit old now, but in the UK:
BBC News Online: 'Creationism' school opens its doors
8 September, 2003

A new £20m school which will teach biblical creation, opens on Teesside on Monday.

The King's Academy in Middlesbrough, is a partnership between the Department for Education and the Wearside-based Vardy Foundation.

It is a sister facility to Gateshead's Emmanuel College, which already has a "creationism" curriculum.

The boss of Sunderland-based car dealership Reg Vardy has provided much of the cash for the school - and plans more throughout the UK.

Pupils there are taught biblical creationism - the belief that the Old Testament account of creation is true - along with evolutionary theory.

...
Who the buggery is this Vardy? It's 'Sir Peter Vardy', not 'Reg'. Are they brothers?
BBC News Online: Protest over new academy
21 June, 2004

Parents and pupils have staged a protest over plans to have their school taken over by a foundation that promotes the teaching of creationism.

Northcliffe School in Conisbrough, near Doncaster, was judged to be failing by school inspectors earlier this year.

Now the Emmanuel Schools Foundation wants to turn the school into its fourth college in the north.

It has colleges in Middlesbrough and Gateshead and plans to open another one in Thorne, also near Doncaster.

The foundation is part of the Vardy Foundation, set up by entrepreneur Sir Peter Vardy, who made his fortune with a chain of car dealerships.

Sir Peter, a committed Christian, has defended the way that the foundation's schools present both the Bible account of creation and the Darwinian theory of species evolving over time.

...
It gets better! :D :
BBC News Online: Parents 'auction' school on eBay
3 September, 2004

Parents have put a school up for auction on eBay for £2m in protest at plans to turn it into a city academy sponsored by group which promotes Christianity.

The Vardy Foundation is offering that amount of money to ensure the change of status for Northcliffe school, a comprehensive in Doncaster.

Schools which become city academies are directly accountable to Whitehall rather than local authorities.

Parents say they are worried by a potential loss of accountability.

'Creationism on the quiet'

The Vardy Foundation was set up by entrepreneur Sir Peter Vardy, who made his fortune with a chain of car dealerships.

A committed Christian, he has defended the way that the foundation's schools present both the Bible account of creation and the Darwinian theory of species evolving over time.

According to the eBay advert, subjects, especially science, will present "creationism on the quiet".

The top bid received when BBC News Online viewed the site was 10 pence.

...

And from the "New European" land of Serbia, where they seem to be showing a bit more sense:
BBC News Online: 'Anti-Darwin' Serb minister quits
16 September, 2004

Serbia's education minister has resigned after causing outrage by telling schools to restrict teaching of Charles Darwin's evolution theory.

An official statement said Ljiljana Colic was stepping down because of "problems that had started to reflect on the work of the entire government".

Mrs Colic had said Darwin's theory was no more legitimate than the idea that God created all creatures in the world.

Her policy was quickly reversed after a storm of protests.

The Glas Javnosti newspaper on 7 September quoted Mrs Colic as saying that in future Charles Darwin's theory would only be taught alongside creationism.

Teachers would have to skip a chapter in biology textbooks on Darwin until a new curriculum was worked out, she said.

Ms Colic said the two theories were equally dogmatic.

Later media reports said she had argued against compulsory teaching of foreign languages and computing.

Protests

Correspondents say the anti-Darwin move shocked educators in a republic where religion only recently began to be taught.

Biologist Nikola Tucic described the ruling as "outrageous" and said it showed Serbia's Orthodox Church was interfering in politics.

...
 
The Cobb county Textbook stickers

Georgia Scientists File Legal Brief in Evolution Lawsuit, Defend Open-Minded Approach to Teaching Evolution

By: Staff
Discovery Institute
November 8, 2004


ATLANTA, NOV. 8 – The courts should not prevent educators from encouraging students to approach the study of evolution with an open mind according to over 30 scientists, including 25 from Georgia, who have submitted a legal brief to the US District Court in the Northern District of Georgia.

The court begins hearing testimony today in a lawsuit brought by the ACLU challenging the Cobb Co. school district’s right to insert a sticker into high school biology textbooks which states: “This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.”

“Frankly, it’s astonishing that the ACLU opposes having students study evolution ‘with an open mind,’” says attorney Seth Cooper, an expert on the legal aspects of teaching evolution. “The ACLU is supposed to be against censorship and favor the free marketplace of ideas, but here it is dogmatically trying to censor a school district from encouraging an open-minded approach to teaching evolution.”

Cooper points out that the textbook sticker does not deal with creationism or even alternative scientific theories to evolution: “It merely encourages students to avoid dogmatism when studying evolution by carefully and critically examining the evidence with an open mind,” explains Cooper. “That sort of critical inquiry is the heart of what science is supposed to be about.”

While the ACLU claims there is no debate among scientists over Darwinian evolution, Cooper, a program officer with the Discovery Institute’s Center for Science & Culture, explains that this is simply not true.

“There is a robust and growing scientific controversy surrounding neo-Darwinian theory,” says Cooper. “The scientists listed in this brief wanted to correct the ACLU’s patently erroneous claim that no scientists question Darwinian evolution.”

The brief states “that the science education necessary to equip students for the 21st Century should not censor relevant scientific information about important scientific controversies (such as neo-Darwinian and chemical evolutionary theories), but should fully inform students about such debates.”

Scientists joining the legal brief include biologists and biochemists from state schools such as University of Georgia, Georgia Southern University, Georgia Institute of Technology, Kennesaw State University, Stanford University, and Ohio State University. Many of the scientists are signatories of the national “Scientific Dissent from Darwinism” list of over 300 scientists who are “skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”



Source

Also some more links from pandasthumb
 
Another report:

Evolution textbooks row goes to court

Gary Younge in New York
Tuesday November 9, 2004
The Guardian

A suburban American school board found itself in court yesterday after it tried to placate Christian fundamentalist parents by placing a sticker on its science textbooks saying evolution was "a theory, not a fact".

Atlanta's Cobb County school board, the second largest board in Georgia, added the sticker two years ago after a 2,300 strong petition attacked the presentation of "Darwinism unchallenged". Some parents wanted creationism - the theory that God created humans according to the Bible version - to be taught alongside evolution.

Shortly after the stickers were put on the books, six parents launched a legal challenge, with the support of the the American Civil Liberties Union. It started yesterday.

"I'm a strong advocate for the separation of church and state," one of the parents, Jeffrey Selman, told the Associated Press. "I have no problem with anybody's religious beliefs. I just want an adequate educational system."

The board says the stickers were motivated by a desire to establish a greater understanding of different view points. "They improve the curriculum, while also promoting an attitude of tolerance for those with different religious beliefs," said Linwood Gunn, a lawyer for Cobb County schools.

The controversy began when the school board's textbook selection committee ordered m (£4.3m) worth of the science books in March 2002. Marjorie Rogers, a parent who does not believe in evolution, protested and petitioned the board to add a sticker and an insert setting out other explanations for the origins of life.

"It is unconstitutional to teach only evolution," she said. "The school board must allow the teaching of both theories of origin."

Her efforts galvanised the fundamentalist community.

"God created earth and man in his image," another parent, Patricia Fuller, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "Leave this garbage out of the textbooks. I don't want anybody taking care of me in a nursing home some day to think I came from a monkey."

Wendi Hill, one of the parents who signed the petition, said: "We believe the Bible is correct in that God created man. I don't expect the public school system to teach only creationism, but I think it should be given its fair share."

Cobb county achieved what it believed to be a compromise by adding stickers to the books which read: "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

But secular parents believed the board had been browbeaten.

"I'm shocked Cobb County is handling it this way," said Gina Stubbart, who served on the textbook selection committee. "The average person knows evolution is a widely accepted scientific theory."

This year Georgia's schools superintendent, Kathy Cox, removed the word "evolution" from the state's science teaching standards, but she quickly backtracked after receiving nearly 1,000 complaints.

In 1987, the supreme court ruled that creationism was a religious belief that could not be taught in public schools along with evolution.

Since then creationism has been repackaged as the theory of "intelligent design".

This contends that life on Earth results from a purposeful design rather than random development and that a higher intelligence is guiding this process.

Pennsylvania's Dover area school board has already voted to teach intelligent design.

The hearing in Georgia will have to establish whether intelligent design is in fact a religious theory; and if so, whether the stickers which mention neither intelligent design, nor religion by name, violate the separation of church and state.

The issue of creationism in schools has long been a point of contention between fundamentalists and secularists in the US. In 1925, John Scopes went on trial for teaching evolution in Dayton, Tennessee, in what became known as the monkey trial.

It ended with Scopes being fined 0 for violating a Tennessee law that forbade the teaching of "any theory that denies the story of divine creation as taught by the Bible and to teach instead that man was descended from a lower order of animals"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1346600,00.html

Some great quotes - I think if I tried to teach a religious lesson involving a more open-minded approach or even a critical thinking exercise then they'd spit the dummy.

Also:

"It is unconstitutional to teach only evolution," she said. "The school board must allow the teaching of both theories of origin."

And that is really telling - "both"? There are hundreds of theories about evolution but we surely can't give them equal weighting or the whole the whole school year would be full - "this week we'll be doing Vedic creationism and next week we'll covering the Interventionist Theory".

And:

I don't want anybody taking care of me in a nursing home some day to think I came from a monkey

I certainly wouldn't want anyone working for a pharmacological firm creating new medicines who had such a fundamentally flawed grasp of science!!
 
Re: The Cobb county Textbook stickers

Swan said:
Source

Also some more links from pandasthumb
Some 'alternative' information about the 'Discovery Institute':
Infidel.org: Discovery Institute's "Wedge Project" Circulates Online
by James Still

A recently-circulated position paper of The Center for the Renewal of Science & Culture (CRSC) reveals an ambitious plan to replace the current naturalistic methodology of science with a theistic alternative called "intelligent design."

The CRSC, a program launched by the Discovery Institute in 1996, is the major force behind recent advances in the intelligent design movement. The Center is directed by Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. Stephen Meyer, Associate Professor of Philosophy at Whitworth College. Its mission is "to replace materialism and its destructive cultural legacies with a positive scientific alternative." The Discovery Institute hopes that intelligent design will be the usurper that finally dethrones the theory of evolution.

On March 3, 1999, an anonymous person obtained an internal white paper from the CRSC entitled "The Wedge Project," which detailed the Center's ambitious long-term strategy to replace "materialistic science" with intelligent design. The paper describes the CRSC's mission with a sense of urgency:

"The social consequences of materialism have been devastating. As symptoms, those consequences are certainly worth treating. However, we are convinced that in order to defeat materialism, we must cut it off at its source. That source is scientific materialism. This is precisely our strategy. If we view the predominant materialistic science as a giant tree, our strategy is intended to function as a "wedge" that, while relatively small, can split the trunk when applied at its weakest points. The very beginning of this strategy, the "thin edge of the wedge," was Phillip Johnson's critique of Darwinism begun in 1991 in Darwinism on Trial, and continued in Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening Minds. Michael Behe's highly successful Darwin's Black Box followed Johnson's work. We are building on this momentum, broadening the wedge with a positive scientific alternative to materialistic scientific theories, which has come to be called the theory of intelligent design (ID). Design theory promises to reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions."

...
Could even be that our newly discovered US Fundie-Ideolog' chums, the 'NeoConservatives' are somewhere at the back of such an attempted paradigm shift. :cool:
 
One would hope that, for the sake of fairness, the sticker would also state that Creationsim is a matter of faith and is thus no more a 'fact' than evolution... ;)
 
JerryB said:
One would hope that, for the sake of fairness, the sticker would also state that Creationsim is a matter of faith and is thus no more a 'fact' than evolution... ;)

Perhaps we could campaign to get a sticker put on all copies of the Bible? ;)
 
Emperor said:
Perhaps we could campaign to get a sticker put on all copies of the Bible? ;)

Perhaps we could start a campaign for people to look up the word 'science' in the dictionary

1.
a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

And the the word 'faith'

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
3. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
4. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
5. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
6. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
A set of principles or beliefs.
 
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