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The Thylacine ('Tasmanian Tiger' Or 'Wolf')

blessmycottonsocks said:
Curiously, the link won't work when I post it here.
To watch the video, go to YT and search for "Thylacine sighting...? 7-01-2024 in NE Tasmania with Andrew"
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The link you posted does work when you click on the "watch on YT". I'm not sure if your post appears to you as it does to me:
 

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Forest galante has a new youtube piece on the thylacine.
 
The Gurt Dog of Ennerdale.
I suggested that the gurt dog was a Tasmanian wolf in an issue of Animals & Men well over 20 years ago.
The idea that the Tasmanian wolf had a weak bite has been well and truly debunked. The Tasmanian wolf had a bite more powerful than a placental wolf but it's skull was not designed to hold onto struggling prey. It would have bitten the prey and let it bleed out whereas true wolves, who are pack hunters cling onto their prey and worry it to death in a group.
 
I haven't watched the video, but I skimmed the Wiki article, so I'm an expert now. Not that any of the descriptions of the dog are likely to be accurate, but it's body was supposedly 51 kg, the average mean male body weight of a male thylacine was 19.7 kg, female 13.7kg. The Girt mut was supposedly taxidermied. Whilst it might be possible to mistake the genitals of a female thylacine and dog, you couldn't really do this with a male as its genitals would appear to be back to front, and you'd mention that. That would mean that it could only be a female. So, around 13.7kg, not much of a beast.
 
oldrover said:
I haven't watched the video, but I skimmed the Wiki article, so I'm an expert now. Not that any of the descriptions of the dog are likely to be accurate, but it's body was supposedly 51 kg, the average mean male body weight of a male thylacine was 19.7 kg, female 13.7kg. The Girt mut was supposedly taxidermied. Whilst it might be possible to mistake the genitals of a female thylacine and dog, you couldn't really do this with a male as its genitals would appear to be back to front, and you'd mention that. That would mean that it could only be a female. So, around 13.7kg, not much of a beast.
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Would being a female mean that a pouch should give them pause for thought?
 
oldrover said:
Not unless it was carrying or suckling young, or, had a pouch which failed to contract after doing so (there is precedent for this in thylacines). Pouches are temporary structures.
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Is there no vestige of a pouch-structure remaining to the extent that an experienced taxidermist might wonder what it was? I mean, is there some structure from which the pouch develops when the thylacine is pregnant?
 
catseye said:
Is there no vestige of a pouch-structure remaining to the extent that an experienced taxidermist might wonder what it was? I mean, is there some structure from which the pouch develops when the thylacine is pregnant?
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Honestly, I'm not sure whether or not there'd be a vestige left, but I'm not aware of any on the preserved skins. And this whole issue is one that's been back and forth recently. I think the question is probably whether there'd be enough for a taxidermist around wherever Ellendale was to notice, and I think that's an almost definite no. What's certain, is that it'd be easier to miss the differences in a female than a male.
 
oldrover said:
Honestly, I'm not sure whether or not there'd be a vestige left, but I'm not aware of any on the preserved skins. And this whole issue is one that's been back and forth recently. I think the question is probably whether there'd be enough for a taxidermist around wherever Ellendale was to notice, and I think that's an almost definite no. What's certain, is that it'd be easier to miss the differences in a female than a male.
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I never thought I'd be spending a significant part of my Thursday pondering over whether a Tasmanian Wolf would have a visible pouch when being stuffed.... Got to be a first, surely.
 
catseye said:
I never thought I'd be spending a significant part of my Thursday pondering over whether a Tasmanian Wolf would have a visible pouch when being stuffed.... Got to be a first, surely.
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It just sort of happened to me without my notice. Now I spend everyday wondering things like that.

But, to clear it up, if it died with a pouch that'll be retained after preservation. Preserved of course being different to taxidermied,which effectively ruins everything.
 
catseye said:
I never thought I'd be spending a significant part of my Thursday pondering over whether a Tasmanian Wolf would have a visible pouch when being stuffed.... Got to be a first, surely.
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Update. There is a trace -"In dried skins the pouch is simple line that you can just about get the tips of your fingers under". So, you might notice it but unless you were looking for it a pouch, it's unlikely that you'd know what it is. That's providing it had already had young of course.
 
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oldrover said:
I haven't watched the video, but I skimmed the Wiki article, so I'm an expert now. Not that any of the descriptions of the dog are likely to be accurate, but it's body was supposedly 51 kg, the average mean male body weight of a male thylacine was 19.7 kg, female 13.7kg. The Girt mut was supposedly taxidermied. Whilst it might be possible to mistake the genitals of a female thylacine and dog, you couldn't really do this with a male as its genitals would appear to be back to front, and you'd mention that. That would mean that it could only be a female. So, around 13.7kg, not much of a beast.
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A fair point but it it was a Tazzy wolf it may have been cage fat or just a huge individual. Most mammals get much heavier in captivity as they are overfed. In contrast the biggest reptiles measured have been wild ones.
 
lordmongrove said:
A fair point but it it was a Tazzy wolf it may have been cage fat or just a huge individual. Most mammals get much heavier in captivity as they are overfed. In contrast the biggest reptiles measured have been wild ones.
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It can't have been that cage fat. Plus 51 kg (obviously that's not set in stone though) is out of the range for the species. It's right in the range for a big dog though. Add to that there's nothing in its behavior that's reminiscent of a thylacine, and it 45 years (ish) before the first live one is known to have been imported into England. It comes down to the description of the coat pattern, "large, brindled, tiger-striped dog" (Wikipedia again). I don't know any tiger striped dogs, but the I don't know any brindled thylacine skins either.

Until I Googled that again I thought it was Ellendale not Ennerdale.
 
oldrover said:
It can't have been that cage fat. Plus 51 kg (obviously that's not set in stone though) is out of the range for the species. It's right in the range for a big dog though. Add to that there's nothing in its behavior that's reminiscent of a thylacine, and it 45 years (ish) before the first live one is known to have been imported into England. It comes down to the description of the coat pattern, "large, brindled, tiger-striped dog" (Wikipedia again). I don't know any tiger striped dogs, but the I don't know any brindled thylacine skins either.

Until I Googled that again I thought it was Ellendale not Ennerdale.
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Eating the soft, blood rich organs sounds tazzy-wolfish to me. The only other thing i can think of is a striped hyena but that would have crunched up the bones.
 
lordmongrove said:

Reports of Tasmanian tiger sightings come by the thousands as Aussies search for extinct thylacine​

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/report...MY6i6dvlsP6VXQVDEt018Yfi7dWidS-ogEuDNKnJ_Nr3O
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​

"Adrian Richardson: In Tasmania, we do not have anything remotely like it. We do not even have wild dogs in any form. The only feral things we have around here is deer or cats."​

But is that correct?

"Distribution​

In Tasmania, small packs of wild dogs are occasionally identified in remote rural locations or isolated areas of crown and reserved land, such as World Heritage Area land in the Central Highlands. However, the problem is not regarded as being widespread. Dogs at large are considered to be a larger problem in Tasmania, especially in urban and peri-urban areas."

https://nre.tas.gov.au/invasive-species/invasive-animals/invasive-mammals/wild-dogs

I would class myself as a Thylacine believer but we'll get nowhere but making false claims.
 
60 Minutes (U.S) story that aired April 14:

Search ongoing for extinct Tasmanian tiger amid efforts to revive species | 60 Minutes

Runtime 13min

Thylacines — marsupials known as Tasmanian tigers — were declared extinct decades ago, but efforts to find one in the wild are thriving. Scientists are also working to bring back the species. Air Date: Apr 14, 2024

 
Paul_Exeter said:

​

"Adrian Richardson: In Tasmania, we do not have anything remotely like it. We do not even have wild dogs in any form. The only feral things we have around here is deer or cats."​

But is that correct?

"Distribution​

In Tasmania, small packs of wild dogs are occasionally identified in remote rural locations or isolated areas of crown and reserved land, such as World Heritage Area land in the Central Highlands. However, the problem is not regarded as being widespread. Dogs at large are considered to be a larger problem in Tasmania, especially in urban and peri-urban areas."

https://nre.tas.gov.au/invasive-species/invasive-animals/invasive-mammals/wild-dogs

I would class myself as a Thylacine believer but we'll get nowhere but making false claims.
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Just to be clear, I'm a friend of Adrian's, that might make me biased or it might make the idea of his making false claims stick in my throat because I've no doubt that he's as honest as they come. I'm also an active researcher in this field and I'm looking to understand what caused the species' extinction in Tasmania, so I do not believe that the thylacine is still around.

As the page you cited shows, there are feral dogs in Tasmania but they're described as an intermittent problem. Cats are far more of a problem and deer have been loose in that area for over 100 years. As I understand it, these are the most significant ferals in the area in question. However, in terms of absolutely ruling out feral dogs in Tasmania Adrian's statement could be said to be inaccurate. As to whether you could consider it false, I'd argue the question is whether there is a feral dog population in the area where the howl was heard. Neither you nor I can answer that question, I doubt anyone could rule it out, but I do know that he isn't picking any evidence of them up on trail cams (before any wit points it out, no he's not picking up thylacines either). So, I think that under the circumstances of an interview, which aren't easy if you aren't used to them (I've said some truly stupid things with a microphone pointed at me), his comment is forgivable.

Whilst I don't agree with Adrian, and he doesn't agree with me, what stands, is his dedication.
 
oldrover said:
Just to be clear, I'm a friend of Adrian's, that might make me biased or it might make the idea of his making false claims stick in my throat because I've no doubt that he's as honest as they come. I'm also an active researcher in this field and I'm looking to understand what caused the species' extinction in Tasmania, so I do not believe that the thylacine is still around.

As the page you cited shows, there are feral dogs in Tasmania but they're described as an intermittent problem. Cats are far more of a problem and deer have been loose in that area for over 100 years. As I understand it, these are the most significant ferals in the area in question. However, in terms of absolutely ruling out feral dogs in Tasmania Adrian's statement could be said to be inaccurate. As to whether you could consider it false, I'd argue the question is whether there is a feral dog population in the area where the howl was heard. Neither you nor I can answer that question, I doubt anyone could rule it out, but I do know that he isn't picking any evidence of them up on trail cams (before any wit points it out, no he's not picking up thylacines either). So, I think that under the circumstances of an interview, which aren't easy if you aren't used to them (I've said some truly stupid things with a microphone pointed at me), his comment is forgivable.

Whilst I don't agree with Adrian, and he doesn't agree with me, what stands, is his dedication.
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Fair enough! I wish him well in his endeavours and hope he is successful
 
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