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The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

So on Wednesday night I coped into my local Tesco after work to do my Friday night and weekend shop. Astonished to find absolutely no chilled fresh meat, chicken, fish or even fake meat due to a "technical fault". So I had to take a walk to the Coop where they sell my favourite supermarket own-brand sausages, the Simply Irresistible ones that are outdoor bred and RSPCA welfare standard. Got two packs for six quid and made my favourite sausage meatballs braised cider, mushrooms and fresh thyme finished with (soya) cream and English mustard and served with chunky pasta.

Had a look at that packet and delighted to find no nitrates listed on the ingredients. Then a little research:

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/food-safety/why-traditional-british-sausages-are-safe/561309.article

So bacon is the culprit here, which is great news although given the high saturated fat content moderation is still a good plan.

So why are sausages being listed as carcinogenic rather than just high in saturated fat? Seems to me its at least in part due to the anti-meat meat lobby distorting the facts again, as they do when comparing British welfare standards and grass-fed diets to South American cattle kept in barren pens and fed on Amazonian soy.
 
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Paul_Exeter said:
So on Wednesday night I coped into my local Tesco after work to do my Friday night and weekend shop. Astonished to find absolutely no chilled fresh meat, chicken, fish or even fake meat due to a "technical fault". So I had to take a walk to the Coop where they sell my favourite supermarket own-brand sausages, the Simply Irresistible ones that are outdoor bred and RSPCA welfare standard. Got two packs for six quid and made my favourite sausage meatballs braised cider, mushrooms and fresh thyme finished with (soya) cream and English mustard and served with chunky pasta.
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That happened at my local Tesco the other day. Wonder if it's happened country-wide?
Thankfully, the fridges at Sainsbury's still work, so they got my business instead.
 
Mythopoeika said:
That happened at my local Tesco the other day. Wonder if it's happened country-wide?
Thankfully, the fridges at Sainsbury's still work, so they got my business instead.
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The fridges were definitely working and the odds of every fresh, chilled section having a fault at the same time are pretty low, so I reckon its a distribution issue. I'm not a big fan of Tesco at all, they are quite underhand with pricing and passing off lower welfare meat as premium. For example, sometimes their own brand Finest sausages are outdoor bred and RSPCA certified but mostly the are not and the price doesn't change, just some details on the back of the pack and very small writing on the front. However, the nearest Sainsburys is eight miles away and so I often have to make do.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
So why are sausages being listed as carcinogenic rather than just high in saturated fat? Seems to me its at least in part due to the anti-meat meat lobby distorting the facts again, as they do when comparing British welfare standards and grass-fed diets to South American cattle kept in barren pens and fed on Amazonian soy.
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Doesn't it just depend on the quality of the sausage though?
 
Floyd1 said:
So is there something else in them other than nitrates which (allegedly) cause cancer I wonder?
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"Researchers from Queen’s University Belfast have questioned the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) blanket classification of processed meat as carcinogenic after finding significant evidence gaps between processed meat treated with nitrites and nitrite-free processed meat."

https://meatmanagement.com/british-sausages-and-bacon-health-risk-links-may-have-been-inaccurate/

The article above sates that WHO used a 'blanket' approach and did not take account that British and Irish sausages are traditionally nitrite-free. However, lets be clear - eat them every day and you are on your way to heart disease, they are high in the wrong types of fats.
 
An observation - just that ...
My local greengrocers were shut so I dropped into the (town dominating) Tesco.
Needed onions - cheaper to buy three in a 'net' than individually. Got home then, purely randomly, studied the label.
"Product of New Zealand".
So, when supermarkets say they encourage buying local, reducing food miles etc. etc. it's bulls**t! How can it be cheaper to buy brown onions (available anywhere in Europe) than shipping containerloads from the other side of the world?
Yeah ... buying power. Profits over ethics every time. :mad:
 
Stormkhan said:
An observation - just that ...
My local greengrocers were shut so I dropped into the (town dominating) Tesco.
Needed onions - cheaper to buy three in a 'net' than individually. Got home then, purely randomly, studied the label.
"Product of New Zealand".
So, when supermarkets say they encourage buying local, reducing food miles etc. etc. it's bulls**t! How can it be cheaper to buy brown onions (available anywhere in Europe) than shipping containerloads from the other side of the world?
Yeah ... buying power. Profits over ethics every time. :mad:
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I used to buy loose red onions and put them through the scanner as white, but they are the same price these days for some reason, when they never used to be.

And apparently, you can tell a good onion because it shouldn't have flaking skin. Most of the kilo bags/nets these days have more skin in them than onion.

Edit. I got my onions the wrong way around.
 
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Monkeys enslaved by cruel coconut farmers who make them work in chains to meet growing demand for trendy vegan milk

The primates are forced to harvest hundreds of coconuts each day in Thailand, under the watchful eye of their handlers.

The monkeys are made to spend countless hours picking the fruit when they're not chained to the floor, The Times reported.

thai-villager-looks-monkey-climbing-602886552.jpg


The farmers reportedly pull on ropes that are tied around the animal to control them while they carry out their gruelling shifts in the treetops.

But despite a three-year-long campaign by animal rights charity Peta in 2019 - some farms in Thailand have continued to force the monkeys into labour.

The animals are either bred in captivity or robbed from their mothers in the jungle when they are babies.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/8508337/monkeys-enslaved-coconut-farmers-vegan-milk/

maximus otter
 
Paul_Exeter said:
So on Wednesday night I coped into my local Tesco after work to do my Friday night and weekend shop. Astonished to find absolutely no chilled fresh meat, chicken, fish or even fake meat due to a "technical fault".
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One day last week my local Asda had an electrical fault which resulted in all the fridges and freezers being dodgy. The produce and chiller displays had no lighting and most of the shelves had been cleared by staff.

Strangely, customers could still buy what they wanted if they got there before the staff who were emptying the displays. Weird.
 
maximus otter said:
Monkeys enslaved by cruel coconut farmers who make them work in chains to meet growing demand for trendy vegan milk

The primates are forced to harvest hundreds of coconuts each day in Thailand, under the watchful eye of their handlers.

The monkeys are made to spend countless hours picking the fruit when they're not chained to the floor, The Times reported.

thai-villager-looks-monkey-climbing-602886552.jpg


The farmers reportedly pull on ropes that are tied around the animal to control them while they carry out their gruelling shifts in the treetops.

But despite a three-year-long campaign by animal rights charity Peta in 2019 - some farms in Thailand have continued to force the monkeys into labour.

The animals are either bred in captivity or robbed from their mothers in the jungle when they are babies.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/8508337/monkeys-enslaved-coconut-farmers-vegan-milk/

maximus otter
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I've seen this in person back in the 80's, although it was gibbons collecting the coconuts in that instance. Not much has changed.
 
Stormkhan said:
So ... how do vegans - and vegetarians - feel about eating coconut now?
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Or...

* The humans who are concerned about ethics etc in food production

* The humans who are not concerned about ethics etc in food production

* Misc. Including people who have no notion or agency - very young children for example.

Looking at the first two categories, both will have vegans, vegetarians, omnivores, carnivores, pescatarians etc etc etc

What are you getting at with your question @Stormkhan ?
 
I'm getting at nothing - it's a question.
I've heard many times of the morality and ethics of vegetarianism/veganism* so I'd imagine these two groups would have plenty of opinion.

* Personally, and often.
 
And... do you want input from all groups? or are you pre-selecting on those groups? What about people who are in those groups but don't give a monkey's* about it?

I don't understand why your research question isn't "people who profess to care about the ethics of food"?
 
It's not a 'research' question - it's for my own personal satisfaction.
However ... you're rephrasing is perfectly fair. However, in my 'defence' (if there is a need for one) is that the original post - and these - are on a thread called "The Vegan and Vegetarian Thread", so the 'sample group' is already loaded.
Why are you getting so snitty?
 
snitty?

If I was I am no longer :)

I now understand that you wanted reinforcement for your views on V&Vs. Carry on - I made the mistake of thinking it was a serious post looking for interaction.
 
You don't know my views on V&Vs. Carry on with your own assumptions. You've not 'interacted' with my question anyhow, so there it is ...
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Oh dear:

"More than a third of foods labelled vegan contained animal products, research has found, prompting experts to warn shoppers with severe allergies they face potentially “tragic consequences”."

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/jul/07/one-in-three-uk-vegan-products-found-contain-milk-egg
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It's not just contamination with milk and eggs.
When many crops are harvested, insects and parts of insects may end up being harvested too. Flour, for example, may contain a certain percentage of insects.
 
I thought it bloody stupid of the suppliers response to be the blame-transferring "we've been given no guidance".

How about "If you want your product to be vegan or vegetarian, don't f*cking contaminate it with a meat product!"

It's difficult to do if your processes use a shared step. You have to clean out that step from contamination before proceeding in production. But if you're a mass producer, whose production methods involve contaminants, such as meat, nuts etc. then to call your product 'vegan' or whatever then you have to do this.
End of.

Sure, accidental contamination (such as Myth suggests above) will happen, but there's 'accident' and then there's intent. A bug falling into a 'vegan' hopper is accident. Using a machine to make a 'vegan' product and not cleaning it out before when it was used with meat is intent.
"They won't know".
Thus, many folks who are seriously allergic to peanuts ... will know!
 
I wouldnt trust petas word on monkeys.

Or any other animal (including human ones)

Isnt Monkey work the traditional way to harvest coconuts?
 
Thai Burger King are offering this understated non-meat cheese-only burger featuring 20 slices of American cheese. Cheesetastic!

1689113388578.png
 
In our family, that kind of processed sliced cheese is known as 'manky' cheese. We only use it on burgers because of it's low melting point.
A 100% cheese 'burger' for me would be a block of cheese, possibly breadcrumbed, like a baked camembert.
 
Stormkhan said:
In our family, that kind of processed sliced cheese is known as 'manky' cheese. We only use it on burgers because of it's low melting point.
A 100% cheese 'burger' for me would be a block of cheese, possibly breadcrumbed, like a baked camembert.
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Halloumi burgers are great. You can do them in a bun with all the salad, sauces etc. I sometimes have them as a special treat. :)
Techy gets the boring meat burgers, of course.
 
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