Thylacines (Post-1936 Sightings)

songhrati

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#1
(This thread is, for the moment, just a conglomeration of old ones. Once I've gathered all the stuff from the forum, I'll look to start splitting again and merging between the two thylacine threads. It will take a while, but in the meantime the vast majority of our thylacine stuff will be in one or other of them. Stu)

I was chatting to an elderly Greek man yesterday and, in passing, he mentioned that he had once seen a Tasmanian Tiger in the early 1950s in Greece. He said that a Bulgarian circus passed through his Greek village and one of the animals in the circus was a strange dog-like animal with stripes across its back. At the time he didn't know what it was but thirty years later he was in Australia and saw the famous old footage of a thylacine and immediately recognised it as the animal he saw years before.

I guess it's not outside the realms of possibility that a Bulgarian circus acquiring either a pup or a perhaps a breeding couple in the 1920s or early 1930s and having one thylacine survive through to the early 1950s. I don't suppose anyone else has heard of stories like this?

Z
 

Zilch5

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#4
Wow- A Bulgarian Circus? That's pretty far off for a Tassie Tiger.

And yet here I am WILLING them to have survived somewhere. 8)
 

gordonrutter

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#5
Zilch5 said:
Wow- A Bulgarian Circus? That's pretty far off for a Tassie Tiger.

And yet here I am WILLING them to have survived somewhere. 8)
But they were in zoos and circuses so why not a Bulgarian one. In my book Paranormal Newcastle I recount the story of a probable thylacine in Newcastle (pre 1936) which had escaped from a traveling circus.

Gordon
 

amyasleigh

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#6
I note various crossovers between the two threads on this sub-forum, "Possible post 1936 Thylacine sighting” ,and “Cryptids held in zoos or collections”. lordmongrove mentions in the latter, the suggestion that the “Girt Dog of Ennerdale”, which wrought massive sheep-slaughter in the Lake District in 1810, might have been an escaped thylacine. Per the “Wiki” article on the Girt Dog: “Travelling circuses and menageries of the time were known to contain what were described as “tiger wolves” – a description that fits the thylacine perfectly.”

I gather that one of the many theorised candidates for the identity of the Beast of Gevaudan, is the thylacine. This strikes me as exceedingly unlikely, if only because of the dates concerned: Beast-of-Gevaudan events were in the 1760s, when if I have things rightly, Tasmania had been discovered, but not yet explored or settled by Europeans.
 

oldrover

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#7
I gather that one of the many theorised candidates for the identity of the Beast of Gevaudan, is the thylacine. This strikes me as exceedingly unlikely,
Too right, identifying the medium dog sized thylacine (except on wikipedia, where they seem to reach 9ft, lion size) with these historical mystery beasts is very dubious. Thylacines just weren't that formidable, there's only one instance of an attack on a human, and that's not very convincing.



Wow- A Bulgarian Circus? That's pretty far off for a Tassie Tiger.

And yet here I am WILLING them to have survived somewhere.
Who knows maybe the discovery of the century is chained up somewhere in the outskirts of Tirana, guarding a scrapyard full of old Trabants.
 

amyasleigh

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#8
Thylacines do appear to be a species which mightily engaged people's curiosity and affection, right from their discovery in Tasmania (very-late 18th century, if I have things correctly) -- with their seemingly immediately becoming valued as circus / menagerie / zoo specimens. It's a great pity that the species was, it seems, extremely reluctant to breed in captivity: had that not been so, the thylacine would very likely still be with us today, even if extinct in the wild.

I read on another Net site, "way back", about some alternative-history fiction work, in which thylacines become, in the 19th century, all the rage among the British upper crust; every nobleman worth his salt has a pet thylacine, or a whole pack of the beasts. If only...
 

lordmongrove

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#9
Zilch5, they are allmost certainly still around in Tasmania,parts of Australia and parts of New Guinea.
 

oldrover

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#10
I'd certainly like to hear the New Guinea evidence, I've heard a bit, dont they call it the Dobsina there? but haven't been able to find much.
 

Zilch5

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#11
lordmongrove said:
Zilch5, they are allmost certainly still around in Tasmania,parts of Australia and parts of New Guinea.
I most certainly agree - from stories I've read by people living in the remoter parts of Tasmania.


Who knows maybe the discovery of the century is chained up somewhere in the outskirts of Tirana, guarding a scrapyard full of old Trabants.
That'd be totally awesome! :lol: I'd like one each - Trabant and thylacine!

PS: I've for a long time suspected that the Tasmanian Parks and Wildlife Service know a bit more than they are letting on. I just had a peek at their website - and guess what - they have listed the Thylacine as an "endangered" species. That's a bit odd considering that they are "presumes extinct"?

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/index.aspx?base=971
 

amyasleigh

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#12
oldrover said:
Wow- A Bulgarian Circus? That's pretty far off for a Tassie Tiger.
Who knows maybe the discovery of the century is chained up somewhere in the outskirts of Tirana, guarding a scrapyard full of old Trabants.
Ridiculous and zoologically irrelevant nitpick -- originally in oldrover's post, it was "the outskirts of Sofia" (logical, re the Bulgarian circus) -- but the city postulated, has changed to Tirana, capital of Albania. ? (not that it matters -- I'll shut up.)
 

Quake42

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#13
I've for a long time suspected that the Tasmanian Parks and Wildlife Service know a bit more than they are letting on.
I'm not normally one for conspiracy theories, but as I posted on another thylacine thread, I suspect something odd is going on in Tasmania. The logging industry is extremely powerful and knows that the discovery of a living population of iconic cryptid like the thylacine would most likely shut down many, if not all, of its operations. I suspect the clamour to designate the whole island as a national park/safe retreat for the thyalcine would be so loud as to be irresistable. The parks and wildlife people are somewhat conflicted as they have a responsibility to the forestry industry as well as the animals living there.

A parks ranger insisted he had spotted thylacines a few years ago and gave a detailed, and convincing, description of what he had seen - only to recant the story at a later press conference, flanked by his superiors.

I'm pretty sure the thylacine is still out there.
 

titch

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#14
I seem to remember,perhaps in an arthur c clark strange spookiness book,that a park ranger had taken a picture of tassie tiger,am i correct, or is it my dodgy old mind?
 

Zilch5

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#15
Quake42 said:
I've for a long time suspected that the Tasmanian Parks and Wildlife Service know a bit more than they are letting on.
I'm not normally one for conspiracy theories, but as I posted on another thylacine thread, I suspect something odd is going on in Tasmania. The logging industry is extremely powerful and knows that the discovery of a living population of iconic cryptid like the thylacine would most likely shut down many, if not all, of its operations. I suspect the clamour to designate the whole island as a national park/safe retreat for the thyalcine would be so loud as to be irresistable. The parks and wildlife people are somewhat conflicted as they have a responsibility to the forestry industry as well as the animals living there.

A parks ranger insisted he had spotted thylacines a few years ago and gave a detailed, and convincing, description of what he had seen - only to recant the story at a later press conference, flanked by his superiors.

I'm pretty sure the thylacine is still out there.
Totally agree with you there.

Re the most recent picture = wasn't that a German tourist?
 

oldrover

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#16
originally in oldrover's post, it was "the outskirts of Sofia" (logical, re the Bulgarian circus) -- but the city postulated, has changed to Tirana, capital of Albania. ?
It was to throw the loggers of the scent, ;), and if they ask I'm sure I can convince them that I changed it because I can't keep the difference between Bulgaria and Albania in my head for very long.

Arthur C Clarke features Hans Naarding's 1982 nightime sighting from his truck, it was very close range and lasted long enough for him to be sure, no photo though, but I would say means they were there at least as late as then.

A parks ranger insisted he had spotted thylacines a few years ago and gave a detailed, and convincing, description of what he had seen - only to recant the story at a later press conference, flanked by his superiors.
Thing is though this goes on all the time in any hierarchical institution, you don't speak above your superiors head, you do tow the institutional line. I don't think the retraction necessarily means he didn't see it, but I don't see any reason to interpret it as suggesting an organised cover up. That said you don't get the impression that they're treating the Thylacine as a totally lost cause, while I don't think they know anything for sure, perhaps it's a case of unofficial institutional optimism.
 

Mister_Awesome

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#17
I was watching the existing footage of thylacines on YouTube. Truly an interesting and unique creature. Sometimes they looked like a dog, and in one shot it looked for all the world like a giant numbat. Basically, they look pretty dog-like until they move around a bunch, then you can see the marsupial in them.
 

amyasleigh

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#18
oldrover said:
originally in oldrover's post, it was "the outskirts of Sofia" (logical, re the Bulgarian circus) -- but the city postulated, has changed to Tirana, capital of Albania. ?
It was to throw the loggers of the scent, ;), and if they ask I'm sure I can convince them that I changed it because I can't keep the difference between Bulgaria and Albania in my head for very long.
Yes, very wise. Rough, tough so-and-so's, those loggers; especially when their livelihood is perceivedly threatened.

(I’d hypothesise that the scrapyard concerned, is in actual fact in Priština...)
 

lordmongrove

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#21
Yes the mountain tribes in New Guinea call thylacines Dobsenga. They descripbe them as being like dogs with striped hindquaters and stiff tails. They say they come down from the mountains and kill pigs and other livestock. They are not hunted as they are 'taboo'. They have identified thylacine pictures as being dobsenga.
 

Zilch5

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#22
lordmongrove said:
Yes the mountain tribes in New Guinea call thylacines Dobsenga. They descripbe them as being like dogs with striped hindquaters and stiff tails. They say they come down from the mountains and kill pigs and other livestock. They are not hunted as they are 'taboo'. They have identified thylacine pictures as being dobsenga.
Very interesting, I shall seek more info - thanks!
 

oldrover

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#23
Yes the mountain tribes in New Guinea call thylacines Dobsenga. They descripbe them as being like dogs with striped hindquaters and stiff tails. They say they come down from the mountains and kill pigs and other livestock. They are not hunted as they are 'taboo'. They have identified thylacine pictures as being dobsenga.
Also don't they say that they have no intestines, indicating a slim abdomen.
 

Zilch5

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#24
I only found 8 links in Google for "Dobsenga" - that's probably the lowest of any Google searches I've done! One of the 8 leads to this message - the best one is in German (if anyone else here can read that language, but it is really a good account)

http://www.kryptozoologie-online.de/For ... f=61&t=699

PS: I found a little bit more info following the German links and they mention another candidate for the animal described - the "New Guinea Singing Dog" - which looks to me very much like a Dingo.

But I don't think they are rare enough to mention in these circumstances, nor do they feature the stripes that the Dobsenga and the Thyaline share.
 

titch

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#25
Show how the memory can get it wrong,i was sure that in an Arthur c Clarke book it says the pic is proof that tassies where still around,i even remember the tassie was meant to "energetically digging",i must have got two separate events mixed up. :roll:
 

oldrover

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#26
Thanks Zilch, put the account through Google translator, it is a good account. Ive seen Ned Terry interviewed and this is what he said, also I think some film of the expedition was shown. Further the missionaries' name was Morgan but this has resulted in no hits in connection with PNG, Thylacines or Dobsegna.

Here is the account, not very coherent once it's been through translate but legible enough. (took till the end for me to realise 'bag wolf' must mean pouched wolf)-

In the age of the Pleistocene, the water levels of the oceans were extremely low. New Guinea, Australia and Tasmania together formed a single land mass, known as Sahul-shelf. After the last Ice Age, 10,000 years, the sea level rose gradually, and Guinea been to the island. The land bridge to Australia, however, which had existed over 40,000 years, is the reason why you can sometimes still be found in New Guinea particular species that are as native to the Australian mainland.
Also Thylacinus cynocephalus, the thylacine was once represented in New Guinea. It means, however, that he should be extinct there by 8000 BC - for reasons that are still unknown to science.
We all know how it went then 2000 years ago, the tiger disappeared from the Australian mainland, 69 years ago allegedly by Tasmania, and the way is now eradicated. The fact that probably not entirely true, is relatively well known, but still is no clear evidence of the continued existence of the tiger appeared.

Do I have to find the last hidden wolf population in the bag however be confined to Tasmania?From the Australian mainland, more reports of sightings have been reported, as is the case of the small island off the south coast. And probably the most amazing are the rumors that said to have been observed recently in New Guinea even bags wolves!

In 1992 came the farmer and the Tasmanian thylacine researcher Ned Terry on the first descriptions of a mysterious animal that should live in the mountains of Irian Jaya in western New Guinea, one of the least explored areas on earth.
Terry received the call at that time already a retired man who was a missionary in Guinea have been operating. He then had a local native tribe pictures of different Australian marsupials shown, including the thylacine, which was at that time already extinct. The locals, however, recognized the Tigers and excitedly reported, this animal lived in the mountains of Irian Jaya.They called it the "Dobsenga" and described it as a brownish-colored creature that has the head and front legs of a normal dog, a slender body with distinct dark stripes and a long, stiff tail.

Two months later, the researchers made in person to find the Dobsenga whose description clearly pointed to a thylacine. With an airplane Terry and some companions were taken to a remote indigenous village in the unspoilt nature of Western New Guinea, where they were two guides available who claimed they knew where to find the creatures were staying. They had allegedly only three years before even seen one. The natives told Terry that the Dobsenga occasionally from the mountains down to the villages came to snap pigs, chickens and other pets. People were afraid of the robber and chased him.
Ned's search party bridged 4000 meters and took three days on foot behind. But they found nothing - no trace of a bag wolf, not even evidence that lived here some other large animal.
When he returned to the village of the natives, Terry was told that the Dobsenga his favorite prey - couscous, wallabies and possums - always followed. If these animals are not present, it was the sought Dasyuridae not.

Without tangible evidence in the hands of researchers came back from the New Guinea tropical forest. He firmly believes in the authenticity of the reports, however, because the descriptions of the natives to coincide well with the shape of the bag wolf to be dismissed as a hoax. It is noteworthy also that the tribe when Dobsenga not a mythological creature of myth and legend speaks, but from a real existing predator.
When the natives of New Guinea west is a relatively withdrawn living "primitive", the most exotic animals are not known. The thylacine - the common doctrine that disappeared 10,000 years ago from New Guinea - should they not really know as a living animal. But if it is not Thylacinus cynocephalus or another representative of the Thylaciniden act that kills as from time to time with the local livestock and fear and terror - what could it be for a creature to be? One answer is as difficult.

In my opinion, it's very easy to imagine that exist in some hidden, unexplored regions of New Guinea are still remnant populations of the bag wolf. These animals escape the past ten thousand years since their discovery by successful people. The areas are where most of the reports of sightings are, even in our modern times still one of the infamous "white spots" on the map - areas has in the partial set never a researcher his foot.
Tasmania Perhaps not the most profitable place to look for survivors bag wolves. Perhaps had the animals in a tropical jungle of New Guinea much better chances of surviving the perilous raid of man. The reports of the locals speak it. And even if Ned Terry 1992 to his three-day expedition in the mountains of Irian Jaya had no luck, I'm relatively confident: If making a better-equipped expedition set out for New Guinea, they would meet there at least on tracks that thesurvival of wolves bag support - if not even prove.
http://www.kryptozoologie-online.de/For ... f=61&t=699


I agree a signing dog is a poor match for the Dobsegna's description, although they're practically extinct in the wild and might become the next Australasian cryptid, also I'm a bit concerned about the pig snapping, perhaps some of reinforcing girdle may be the answer to this?
 

Zilch5

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#27
You're right - "Beutelwolf" is the (rather odd) German word for the Tassie Tiger.

"Beutel" signifying the marsupial pouch.

The pig thing is about the stories that the locals tell about the Dobsegna coming down from the hills and snatching their live stock (mainly pigs and chickens there).

Though I don't agree with the Dingo being in any danger of being extinct, but the Papuan variety might be in danger of losing its pure breed status due to mixing with other types of dogs. I'm no expert on dogs, so I'll leave that discussion to others.
 

titch

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#28
titch said:
I seem to remember,perhaps in an arthur c clark strange spookiness book,that a park ranger had taken a picture of tassie tiger,am i correct, or is it my dodgy old mind?
I have found what was i was looking for,in arthur c clarkes chronicles of the strange and mysterious,it says kevin cameron took two pics of a tassie tiger in 1985,in Girrawheen in western Australia.
The book says the pics are convincing but doesnt show them,and they took a bit of tracking down.And they do not look very convincing to me. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 322AAkEwTN
 

Zilch5

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#29
Even as a believer, I've got to say this doesn't show anything.

That 1973 movie was far more convincing.
 

oldrover

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#30
What are the last two supposed to show?, that said I'd never come across them before, so thanks titch, the crytomundo one is clearer but the back story is nonsense. has anyone seen the German photos?, the story sounds like a con but I'd still like to see them, being a bit of a hoax fan.
 
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