U.S. Military: UFO Investigations, Knowledge & Disclosure(s)

charliebrown

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EnolaGaia,

I understand what you are saying, this was voted on and passed.

I am totally confused that in the past, the chairman senate intelligence,Mark Warner, and co-chairman, Marco Rubio, on Fox TV news did not seem optimistic that the 180 day deadline will be meet.

For me, missing the deadline would show lack of good leadership.

Another view, missing the deadline shows the government is really covering something up.
 
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feinman

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There do seem to be rumblings that things aren't going to come out with the report on time, etc. Scr*w 'em. I don't care anymore about their "disclosure" and decades of obfuscation and nonsense. Imo here are plenty of people who know what is going, and if officials can't bring themselves to talk openly about it --I think the reasons for that make sense to me. Just look at the history of the situation.

Here's why:
"In a 1967 lecture to the Greek Astronomical Society, broadcast on Athens Radio, Santorinis first publicly revealed what had been found in his 1947 investigation. "We soon established that they were not missiles. But, before we could do any more, the Army, after conferring with foreign officials (presumably U.S. Defense Dept.), ordered the investigation stopped. Foreign scientists [from Washington] flew to Greece for secret talks with me". Later Santorinis told UFO researchers such as Raymond Fowler that secrecy was invoked because officials were afraid to admit of a superior technology against which we have "no possibility of defense".[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_rockets

And this too:

"Asked about the crash rumors, Sarbacher said they were "substantially correct." He said UFOs "exist. . . . We have not been able to duplicate their performance. . . . All we know is, we didn't make them, and it's pretty certain they didn't originate on the Earth." The issue was so sensitive that "it is classified two points higher even than the H-bomb. In fact it is the most highly classified subject in the U.S. government at the present time." Sarbacher refused to say more.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/ufo-government10.htm
http://www.noufors.com/Dr_Robert_Sarbacher.htm

Quite clear really, even long ago.
 

feinman

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Even if the UAP report doesn't come out --or comes out late with a lot of classified stuff, I think Vallee's book will basically tell readers all the government knows about UFOs. I also think Sarfatti is absolutely right (I am perplexed by his political ideas though), and he doesn't look like he is going to shut up anytime soon. Then there is the phenomenon itself --it is in control; there might be some response or another mass sighting --UFOs aren't going anywhere, they are here. It will be very interesting to see the overlap of Sarfatti's and Vallee's ideas.
 
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charliebrown

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After thinking about what is going on, we are seeing the Pentagon and Congress doing a careful “ tip toe “ dance on how to tell the world we are not alone.

Disclosure is like ketchup, slow in coming out !
 
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eburacum

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Not a chance. The UFO phenomenon has been going on since at least 1947, and no-one has disclosed anything useful yet, nor will they, so don't get your hopes up.
 

feinman

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At this point it doesn't really matter what they do. They could say we are being visited --skeptics wouldn't believe it, others would come up with crazy ideas around it. It is pointless to try and convince skeptics --even the most open-minded skeptic will still stay on the fence about the true nature of the phenomenon, just to hedge their bets. While it is amusing to engage skeptics, and they can often provide very useful information, that is as far as it is going to go. No matter what they say in June, it will doubtless reinforce the extraordinary nature of the phenomenon. Just read what John Ratcliffe said again, and wonder why the extra footage of the Tic Tac would gravely damage national security, and one doesn't need to be a genius to see what they are trying not to talk about. 'Member how skeptics were poo pooing Reid's and Podesta's statements about this being the tip of the iceberg? They are all saying the same thing. just listen to them --they have nothing to gain by talking about UFOs with the public --they are being forced to. Do you ever hear them mention the events of the '40s or '50s? Never. Why? Because they want a reboot and don't want to alert the average person to the extraordinary events of the past that are being repeated again. They are having trouble because they don't want to release sensor data and footage and other evidence that would PROVE the reality of visitation. Just listen to them. It all adds up, obviously.

Possibilities for June:
1. "We are being visited" (The truth, but unlikely)
2. "We have been leapfrogged by Russian and Chinese and Liberian military technology" Ridiculous. It would never have gotten this far recently, or been studied for decades. The idea that The Chinese or Russia could develop this technology without testing it or building prototypes or alerting the intelligence community = ridiculous. Also, they wouldn't fly it over every continent, risking capture, etc. It would be a first-strike weapon. All of the previous is laughable.
3. "We don't know what some of it is" Also a BIG lie, given that they still won't talk about it or surrender files on it, and a it is very doubtful that a natural phenomenon observed for centuries would pose a grave threat to national security. And they have already referred to them as "aircraft" (oops!). And they are obviously under intelligent control... Because just as in decades before, they are surveilling our military installations, Ratcliffe has stated that they are doing the SAME things again now (without ever referring to the events of the '40s and '50s!). :p
4. "Some of the devices observed may represent a non-human advanced technology." I think this is as far as things might go, and a LOT of it will remain classified. Also damning. :)
Or, 5. "We have decided that the report and associated evidence must remain classified for the current time, until we are able to resolve the nature of the phenomenon,"
This might actually be what happens, and it would again be a replay:D of the press conference in the wake of the UFOs over the US Capitol in '52. (Samford is essentially saying that "Just a little while ago the phenomenon flew with impunity over the US Capitol Building, the culmination of a decade-long wave of sightings. Don't worry! There is nothing to worry about that."


This is going to be fun... :sdevil:
 
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charliebrown

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I maintain that Elizondo could not have released the Nimitz tic-tac videos without the Pentagon’s permission.

The Pentagon is controlling this UFO release on the public in a very slow way.

The public is being experimented on to find out their reaction.
 

charliebrown

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The Pentagon has announced it has a prototype of 6th generation fighter jet, supposedly not anything seen before.

Rumors are it can fly itself if needed, and beside launching weapons it can also launch drones.

The Pentagon claims the prototype has actually flown in tests.

Would they be testing this plane at Area 51 causing UFO sightings ?
 

Nosmo King

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The Pentagon has announced it has a prototype of 6th generation fighter jet, supposedly not anything seen before.

Rumors are it can fly itself if needed, and beside launching weapons it can also launch drones.

The Pentagon claims the prototype has actually flown in tests.

Would they be testing this plane at Area 51 causing UFO sightings ?
A slight aside, the UKs latest fighter aircraft the Typhoon cannot be flown without tje onboard computer systems as it is too complicated to control all the systems which keep it airborne manually

"The Eurofighter is designed to be intentionally aerodynamically unstable. This makes it more agile, particularly at supersonic speeds; reduces drag; and gives it an overall increase in lift. However, this also means it can't be flown without the computerised Flight Control System."

https://www.theregister.com/2004/05/25/mod_leak/

-im-sorry-dave-im-afraid-i-cant-do-that-quote-1.jpg
 

Analogue Boy

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The Mick West videos are really good and confirm my own suspicions of what is going on. Misidentification and obfuscation by the military then hushed to secrecy. But why would they do this?
When the US says it is prepared to do clinical surgical strikes on targets, it’s not a good look if their equipment is perceived to be faulty and prone to error. It’s also not good that pilots relying heavily on enemy identification are being confused by balloons. Especially when you consider the payload these planes are carrying.
In the case of a Chilean UFO event, West has used sensible, logical, experimental approach using air traffic flight records, weather reports and simulation of the technology to reach a conclusion to find which ACTUAL plane is the alleged UFO - right down to the identification number.
Contrast this to the approach which says these are extraterrestrial craft from another planet with technology that can run rings around our planes, defy physics as we know it, yet can behave exactly like a balloon moving slowly with a parallax effect.

Watch West with his homespun, yet convincing riposte to the alien origin of these sightings.

While I’m on... I’ll add something about our inner mind arrogance as a species. Many assume that ET has nothing better to do than idly fly around earth with the lights on to spook us out. In truth, we’re probably really not that special. If we’re not the only intelligent species in the Universe... which is highly plausible, there must be WAY more interesting species and cultures out there to monitor. This is the probably the reason why a petri dish of bacteria is not a test card on our TV. So if we assume the population of this planet is 7.7 billion, there are billions and billions of planets in the universe. If we count, on this planet, the amount of people who are prepared to make a career of observing an ant nest for the whole of their lifetime, we are dealing with a very specialist field. If we factor in the amount of people who can go to another planet and look for an ant nest on Mars....that’s extremely limited. Whatever planet is out there exploring has billions and billions amounts of observable data to collect yet people here claim to see UFOs everyday and twice on Saturdays. Some would have us think that UFOs are multidimensional which raises the strike rate of them actually finding, locating and monitoring us even further out to a number that is almost beyond calculation.

But it’s all about US isn’t it?

Overall, West’s exploration of these sightings holds water where the belief, fantasy and wish-fulfilment of true believers doesn’t really add up to much more than indulging a fantasy. And that’s why there’s not going to be a disclosure.
 
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feinman

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So, you are suggesting that every one of the witnesses is mistaken or lying throughout the history of the phenomenon? All of the military and civilian encounters including things like object flying in formation off the wings of aircraft for extended periods, all of the recent testimony from pilots etc. (And I assume you would lump in the '40s, '50s, '80s etc.) Are all examples of military incompetence that didn't get shushed up properly so they ran all of these studies on it and it is really all mundane stuff or our own aircraft? Folks who have had their minds changed by seeing objects pretty close or watching them through binoculars, theodolites, telescopes and gun sights for extended periods and show signs of trauma are all just enjoying a self-indulgent mind trip? I want you and Mick and others who flit about with skepticism (so that if it does come out that UFOs are from elsewhere, you can claim you were just considering all of the alternatives) --to OWN your skepticism. "True believers" are telling you skeptics "You are wrong, listen to me!" and all they get is disbelief. So own it, and agree to get an "L" tattoo (it can be on your deltoid where it is hidden by a t-shirt) that indicates that you are a Loser in the debate about UFOs, if the government comes out and says we are likely encountering objects that are made somewhere else, i.e. "UFOs are real"..
So, if they say they need to study them more and don't know --then you don't have to get tattoo --(although it would be obvious what was up! :cool:). What say you skeptics? Not just Analogue Boy. I will get an "L" tattoo if they come out and say that they made a mistake and they are all mundane objects like weather balloons or our own craft). come on now! We "True Believers' have wasted a lot of time and energy trying to tell you for all of our own good what is going on, so now is your chance to step up! :badge:
Kudos to you on your bravery, too, given the way things are going for you skeptics, eh? :)
Sign up now and don't be wishy washy, or we'll think you might think they are real!
The specs: the horizontal bar of the L shall be one half the length the stem, the stem being .25" so that it will be small and not easily noticeable.
 
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Analogue Boy

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So, you are suggesting that every one of the witnesses is mistaken or lying throughout the history of the phenomenon? All of the military and civilian encounters including things like object flying in formation off the wings of aircraft for extended periods, all of the recent testimony from pilots etc. (And I assume you would lump in the '40s, '50s, '80s etc.) Are all examples of military incompetence that didn't get shushed up properly so they ran all of these studies on it and it is really all mundane stuff or our own aircraft? Folks who have had their minds changed by seeing objects pretty close or watching them through binoculars, theodolites, telescopes and gun sights for extended periods and show signs of trauma are all just enjoying a self-indulgent mind trip? I want you and Mick and others who flit about with skepticism (so that if it does come out that UFOs are from elsewhere, you can claim you were just considering all of the alternatives) --to OWN your skepticism. "True believers" are telling you skeptics "You are wrong, listen to me!" and all they get is disbelief. So own it, and agree to get an "L" tattoo (it can be on your deltoid where it is hidden by a t-shirt) that indicates that you are a Loser in the debate about UFOs, if the government comes out and says we are likely encountering objects that are made somewhere else, i.e. "UFOs are real"..
So, if they say they need to study them more and don't know --then you don't have to get tattoo --(although it would be obvious what was up! :cool:). What say you skeptics? Not just Analogue Boy. I will get an "L" tattoo if they come out and say that they made a mistake and they are all mundane objects like weather balloons or our own craft). come on now! We "True Believers' have wasted a lot of time and energy trying to tell you for all of our own good what is going on, so now is your chance to step up! :badge:
Kudos to you on your bravery, too, given the way things are going for you skeptics, eh? :)
Sign up now and don't be wishy washy, or we'll think you might think they are real!
The specs: the horizontal bar of the L shall be one half the length the stem, the stem being .25" so that it will be small and not easily noticeable.

Well that’s a well-considered reasonable reply.
 

Aether Blue

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There is good evidence to believe that the US military, among others, has been running a disinformation campaign WRT UFOs for many years now. Leaking easily debunked information is one classic technique among many.

It may well be that there is nothing more to the phenomenon beyond misperception, misinterpretation, inaccurate memories, and lots of disinformation. On the other hand, why would governments spend so much effort muddying the waters? Maybe they fear that something really juicy will leak out?
 

feinman

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No-one is forcing you to post.
That's true! And I feel my part t play with UFOs is done. I don't have anything else to say other than what I have already, take it or leave it. I'm confident in the eventual outcome. I do understand the purpose of skepticism for what it's worth; but I think things have reached an impasse without more information, and skeptics and believers should demand to know what is going on -if it is indeed an ET visitation or something stranger, It has been a long time with the phenomenon in the modern era, with endless smoke and mixed messages, right up to today. I used to be open-minded about UFOs nut never thought I would see them, and was in the position of many on this forum, lacking conclusive evidence. The same way I must deal with the humanoid aspect of the phenomenon --I have a hard time accepting it but must be open-minded because of the reports, but I can't allow myself to completely "go there"..
 

Victory

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While I’m on... I’ll add something about our inner mind arrogance as a species. Many assume that ET has nothing better to do than idly fly around earth with the lights on to spook us out. In truth, we’re probably really not that special. If we’re not the only intelligent species in the Universe... which is highly plausible, there must be WAY more interesting species and cultures out there to monitor. This is the probably the reason why a petri dish of bacteria is not a test card on our TV. So if we assume the population of this planet is 7.7 billion, there are billions and billions of planets in the universe. If we count, on this planet, the amount of people who are prepared to make a career of observing an ant nest for the whole of their lifetime, we are dealing with a very specialist field. If we factor in the amount of people who can go to another planet and look for an ant nest on Mars....that’s extremely limited. Whatever planet is out there exploring has billions and billions amounts of observable data to collect yet people here claim to see UFOs everyday and twice on Saturdays. Some would have us think that UFOs are multidimensional which raises the strike rate of them actually finding, locating and monitoring us even further out to a number that is almost beyond calculation.

But it’s all about US isn’t it?

What if there are not very many planets with intelligent life, so each planet is worth studying?
What if the other planets have evolved in similar ways, but our's has evolved differently.....perhaps much more slowly than would be presumed, or faster?

Then we become very interesting to study.
 

eburacum

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I will get an "L" tattoo if they come out and say that they made a mistake and they are all mundane objects like weather balloons or our own craft). come on now!
This bargain makes no sense from a logical standpoint. Too many opportunities for error.

1/ If there are aliens in our skies, and they are associated with a small fraction of UFOs, then the skeptics get to wear a tattoo.
2/ If there are no aliens in our skies, but the US military declares that there are, the skeptics would wear a tattoo but this would be an error.
3/ If there are aliens in our skies, but the US military declares that there are not, the believers would wear a tattoo but this would be an error.
4/ If there are no aliens in our skies, and the US military declares that there are not, there will still be just as many UFOs as there ever were, so the believers will wear a tattoo despite the continued observation of UFOs. They won't like that. If we can make one prediction about the future, it is that there will always be UFOs, even after we finally make contact with aliens.

As I've said before, the aliens themselves will probably have their own UFO sightings, no matter what kind of sensory equipment they use. And I'm reasonably certain that any real extraterrestrials we encounter will be completely unconnected with our own UFO phenomenon, just as we are unconnected with theirs.
 

feinman

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Those things are true, but it can still work based on those two possible statements, and I don't mind wearing a tattoo if the military is in error, if skeptics are still eventually shown to be wrong. I am willing to take that risk. :) I think it is a good bet for me.
1. An admission of non-earthly technology = skeptic get tattoo.
2. Statement that they are in error and they are our own craft = I get tattoo.
Anything else and no one gets tattoo.

Right now I'm hoping Mick or someone over at Metabunk will pay for lie detector tests for me! :) Waiting for him to okay my first post there. I intend to enjoy myself immensely, and am preparing my rubbers for to.. rub things in..
 
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eburacum

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This places far too much reliance on the reliability of the US military to investigate its own sightings. In general, military investigations are just as prone to error as any other type of investigation. Both the Mexican airforce and the Chilean airforce have investigated UFO reports and supported alien interpretations, but they were subsequently found to be wrong.

The US military are not likely to any more competent, especially if they are influenced by delusional individuals like Elizondo, Bigelow and Puthoff.
 

feinman

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This places far too much reliance on the reliability of the US military to investigate its own sightings. In general, military investigations are just as prone to error as any other type of investigation. Both the Mexican airforce and the Chilean airforce have investigated UFO reports and supported alien interpretations, but they were subsequently found to be wrong.

The US military are not likely to any more competent, especially if they are influenced by delusional individuals like Elizondo, Bigelow and Puthoff.
I am curious what would constitute proof for skeptics; if government scientists can't be trusted, and even things like global warming and many other matters far more mundane are controvertible, then I don't know what would convince some skeptics, aside from an unambiguous personal experience. The problem is the government is probably not going to release extremely damning evidence for obvious reasons, so in this case we would have to rely on their judgement, and I do understand why you are hesitant to do that. Incredibly, I don't currently have a single tattoo --so that would be my first! :p
 

Ascalon

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A slight aside, the UKs latest fighter aircraft the Typhoon cannot be flown without tje onboard computer systems as it is too complicated to control all the systems which keep it airborne manually

"The Eurofighter is designed to be intentionally aerodynamically unstable. This makes it more agile, particularly at supersonic speeds; reduces drag; and gives it an overall increase in lift. However, this also means it can't be flown without the computerised Flight Control System."

https://www.theregister.com/2004/05/25/mod_leak/

View attachment 37604
Eh, they all do that, sir!
Since the agent if fly by wire in the Sixties, it has allowed aircraft design to cope with increasingly unstable platforms to ensure agility.

Everything from the F teen generation onwards has relied on increasing levels of intervention to aid the pilot. The F-16 was regarded as an unstable design.
The Typhoon, Rafael, Gripen, F-22, F-35, J-20, Su-29 and Mig-29 are all unstable designs.

The standard for combat aircraft was to sense and adjust control surfaces around 200 times a second, once hardware caught up.

Now, it can be pretty much whatever is desired.

However, the computer control is merely to keep the aircraft within the performance envelope. It only gives the pilot what the aircraft is capable of, as opposed to stressing it beyond. Think of it more as a very sophisticated ABS on your car, but extended to all aspects of control.

It isn't an AI that decides if the pilot gets to control the plane.
 

Nosmo King

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Eh, they all do that, sir!
Since the agent if fly by wire in the Sixties, it has allowed aircraft design to cope with increasingly unstable platforms to ensure agility.

Everything from the F teen generation onwards has relied on increasing levels of intervention to aid the pilot. The F-16 was regarded as an unstable design.
The Typhoon, Rafael, Gripen, F-22, F-35, J-20, Su-29 and Mig-29 are all unstable designs.

The standard for combat aircraft was to sense and adjust control surfaces around 200 times a second, once hardware caught up.

Now, it can be pretty much whatever is desired.

However, the computer control is merely to keep the aircraft within the performance envelope. It only gives the pilot what the aircraft is capable of, as opposed to stressing it beyond. Think of it more as a very sophisticated ABS on your car, but extended to all aspects of control.

It isn't an AI that decides if the pilot gets to control the plane.
I was only kidding with the HAL meme :p
 

Analogue Boy

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Those things are true, but it can still work based on those two possible statements, and I don't mind wearing a tattoo if the military is in error, if skeptics are still eventually shown to be wrong. I am willing to take that risk. :) I think it is a good bet for me.
1. An admission of non-earthly technology = skeptic get tattoo.
2. Statement that they are in error and they are our own craft = I get tattoo.
Anything else and no one gets tattoo.

Right now I'm hoping Mick or someone over at Metabunk will pay for lie detector tests for me! :) Waiting for him to okay my first post there. I intend to enjoy myself immensely, and am preparing my rubbers for to.. rub things in..
Why are you so keen for everyone to get a tattoo?
 

eburacum

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Note that I'm not a skeptic about climate change, or the curvature of the Earth, or the Moon Landings; there is no good reason to doubt those things. But I am very sceptical about the ability of the US military to make a good judgement call on the UAP question, because military authorities have been wrong so many times in the past.
 

feinman

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Skeptics can't see the gestalt of the phenomenon. Thousands of witnesses across decades and even centuries have reported the same things people are seeing today, clear sightings sometimes lasting for many minutes or hours, by people from all economic and social backgrounds, with corroborating sightings and radar evidence too, sometimes simultaneously. All of what is happening now reinforces what members of the military and government said decades ago. A number of years ago I left this forum in frustration, and said that eventually the UFO matter would hit the fan and many would go to the crow buffet. Put on your bib, cuz it is ALL coming true :cool:
That would be why I am back.
 
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