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UFO conspiracy

Welcome to the board :).

I've moved the thread to Ufology, as TBH there's not really much of a conspiracy angle to the piece to which you linked. What is interesting is the info that Sunderland is currently a UFO hotspot - any more stuff on that?

We have covered the idea of UFOs being of terrestrial origin too, as secret military craft, tulpas (solid thought-forms), beings from inside the Earth and even as giant cryptid animals. Have a browse through this section - I'm sure you'll find lots to discuss.
 
Great, a single line about some sightings in Sunderland followed by the authors opinion based on what he probably read on Wikipedia before going to the pub early, no details of the sightings which kind of makes the suggestion to me that the conspiracy is that UFO's were invented by bored hacks wanting to fill space in their newspapers.

Is that what you meant?

Welcome to the board, btw :)
 
dont knock the guy he is a top researcher and investigator in the field of the paranormal (well that what he says on his website)
 
Is it possible, though, that UFOs could have their origin right here on planet earth? This may not be as strange an idea as one might imagine.

For years there have been rumours that there are subterranean worlds hidden under the north and south poles that could house civilisations whose existence we are unaware of.
Click to expand...

That might not be Mr Hallowell's idea of strange but it is mine.
 
Moon-walker (not Michael Jackson) claims alien contact cover-up
July 24, 2008

"

FORMER NASA astronaut and moon-walker Dr Edgar Mitchell - a veteran of the Apollo 14 mission - has stunningly claimed aliens exist.
And he says extra-terrestrials have visited Earth on several occasions - but the alien contact has been repeatedly covered up by governments for six decades.

Dr Mitchell, 77, said during a radio interview that sources at the space agency who had had contact with aliens described the beings as 'little people who look strange to us.'

He said supposedly real-life ET's were similar to the traditional image of a small frame, large eyes and head.

Chillingly, he claimed our technology is "not nearly as sophisticated" as theirs and "had they been hostile", he warned "we would be been gone by now".

Dr Mitchell, along with with Apollo 14 commander Alan Shepard, holds the record for the longest ever moon walk, at nine hours and 17 minutes following their 1971 mission.

"I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomena is real," Dr Mitchell said.

"It's been well covered up by all our governments for the last 60 years or so, but slowly it's leaked out and some of us have been privileged to have been briefed on some of it.

"I've been in military and intelligence circles, who know that beneath the surface of what has been public knowledge, yes - we have been visited. Reading the papers recently, it's been happening quite a bit.""

Full article:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24 ... 62,00.html
 
Channel 7 news in NSW had a piece about Edgar Mitchell as well. Not sure why its making news now, as he appears to have been quite open about his interest in the paranormal since 1973.
 
IvanVolle said:
FORMER NASA astronaut and moon-walker Dr Edgar Mitchell - a veteran of the Apollo 14 mission - has stunningly claimed aliens exist.
And he says extra-terrestrials have visited Earth on several occasions - but the alien contact has been repeatedly covered up by governments for six decades.
Click to expand...

The question for me here is - why would he make this up?

BTW - I haven't seen the new X Files movie yet, but from what I've read it doesn't touch on government secrecy, so I can't see a tie in there.

And he's not the only Astronaut to say this, either.
 
but he has claimed that the government has covered this up for six decades. i'm sure he had previously stated that first contact happened either at or shortly after roswell, though i may be mistaken, hence why there is no mention of it in the link.
 
Why would he make this up: how about to "support evolution and discredit the Bible"?
Yeah I'm confused also, here read this informative article:

UFOs, Aliens, and Christianity
July 25, 2008

"Former Apollo 14 astronaut, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, has recently made it public knowledge that aliens exist and that NASA officials have had contact with them. Dr. Mitchell says that there has been a sixty-year cover-up by our government of the existence and reality of aliens.

No doubt, all this will be used to support evolution and discredit the Bible. The fact remains, however, that science has shown that only micro-evolution (variations within a biological kind such as varieties of dogs, cats, horses, cows, etc.) is possible but not macro-evolution (variation across biological kinds or from simpler kinds to more complex ones). The reader is encouraged to read the author's article 'The Natural Limits of Evolution' at www.religionscience.com. Mathematical probability alone has shown that it is not rational, logical, or scientific to believe that life could originate by chance.

Alien beings cannot wait millions of years to evolve complex and necessary organs for survival anymore than species on earth. Imagine a species waiting millions of years for reproductive organs to evolve so that it can finally reproduce!

Then, how do we explain aliens if they are for real? The Bible teaches that Satan and his demons (the fallen angels) can take on take all sorts of shapes and perform all sorts of miracles in order to deceive mankind. In fact, some who have been claimed to be abducted by aliens say that these aliens have told them things that undermine the truth of the Christian Scriptures and the Person and work of Jesus Christ.

This is not say that God cannot create life on other planets, but the point being made here is that the supposed alien contacts popularly mentioned are not actual alien beings at all but the work of dark supernatural forces."

Baffling article here:
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/33469.html
 
Zilch5 said:
The question for me here is - why would he make this up?
Click to expand...
I have suggested elsewhere that Dr Mitchell might have had a long standing belief in extraterrestrial life and an ambition to find it, which has not been fulfillled, despite going to the Moon.

He instead has been reporting rumours and hearsay, perhaps in an optimistic effort to make his life-long beliefs come true. Unfortunately we need more than hearsay to determine this matter.
 
Well, we know what Buzz Aldrin saw- it was a panel from the Saturn IVB stage, detached when the Command Module and Lunar Module separated from that stage. Aldrin explained all this in his interview but that part was cut- a deliberate distortion if you ask me.
 
eburacum said:
Well, we know what Buzz Aldrin saw- it was a panel from the Saturn IVB stage, detached when the Command Module and Lunar Module separated from that stage. Aldrin explained all this in his interview but that part was cut- a deliberate distortion if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Hmm - from what I saw, I thought that was a discounted theory?

If anyone has better links - I'd be happy to look at them!

What gets me is that there are several astronauts "confirming" ET - and yet people who have never been near outer space discounting it!

Anyone want to volunteer here - to me it seems I'd rather believe the people who where there and saw this...??? Scientists and all?
 
Zilch5 said:
Hmm - from what I saw, I thought that was a discounted theory?

If anyone has better links - I'd be happy to look at them!
Click to expand...
The link you gave had Aldrin explain very clearly that the panel was the culprit- right at the end, after that ignorant nerk interrupted him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np45b2Xt ... re=related
Aldrin has also explained elsewhere that he told the makers of the first documentary that it was the panel- but they ignored him. UFO documentary makers sometimes twist the facts to make them appear more sensational.
 
Anyone want to volunteer here - to me it seems I'd rather believe the people who where there and saw this...??? Scientists and all?
Click to expand...
Ed Mitchell has never seen a UFO in his life; Gordon Cooper never saw a UFO in space, on the other hand he said he did make one sighting in Germany many years before, although no-one else remembers it. Aldrin identified his own UFO but no-one was listening.

Mitchell has also said that
...[neither] I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the Moon, etc."
Click to expand...
so that tends to suggest that there is nothing to be seen in space.
 
ah yes, structures on the moon. i loved that theory. either aliens building bases to spy on us, or nazi housing to build weapons to annihilate us.

just gotta love those crazy conspiracy nuts ain't ya?
 
ihatethatmonkee3 said:
ah yes, structures on the moon. i loved that theory. either aliens building bases to spy on us, or nazi housing to build weapons to annihilate us.

just gotta love those crazy conspiracy nuts ain't ya?
Click to expand...

The Nazi bases on the moon probably goes back to Robert Heinlein's Rocket Ship Galileo, of 1947, I think some conspiracy theorist's hear stuff on the grapevine and don't realise it started off in fiction...
 
eburacum said:
Zilch5 said:
The question for me here is - why would he make this up?
Click to expand...
I have suggested elsewhere that Dr Mitchell might have had a long standing belief in extraterrestrial life and an ambition to find it, which has not been fulfillled, despite going to the Moon.

He instead has been reporting rumours and hearsay, perhaps in an optimistic effort to make his life-long beliefs come true. Unfortunately we need more than hearsay to determine this matter.
Click to expand...

According to him, and I believe he is sincere, he spoke directly to people involved, and was shown a number of files. Not that I believe any of their contents without proof. But hearsay or rumors are not the right words.
 
Speaking to people, and listening to their replies, is hearsay. In a recent interview Mitchell said something interesting;
(Ed Mitchell)This gentleman tried his damndest to get me in and like so many others in the administration over the last 60 years, since JFK's time, was unable to. He was told 'Admiral, you don't have a need to know, and therefore go get lost,' essentially.
Click to expand...
So some Admiral who didn't know the answers, and was asking questions in JFK's time, was told 'you don't have a need to know, so get lost'. Mitchell seems to assign a lot of importance to this, but basically it was just an Admiral who was out of the loop asking questions. That is a long way from being an inside source.

Mitchell should have been aware that old retired miltary gentlemen get bees in their bonnets; their former high rank doesn't necessarily mean that they have any credibiity. In Britain, a cranky old Admiral would perhaps be regarded with a little more skepticism than in America.

Other old duffers who have expressed an interest in UFOs include Paul Hellyer, Canada's former Defence minister, and Lord Hill-Norton in the UK. Neither of those august gentlemen produced any evidence themselves, but instead have campaigned for more information. It doesn't seem to have crossed their minds that if people like themselves didn't know anything for certain, then perhaps there was nothing to know.
 
eburacum said:
It doesn't seem to have crossed their minds that if people like themselves didn't know anything for certain, then perhaps there was nothing to know.
Click to expand...

I know it sounds a bit 'conspiracy theory', but what if there is an 'Above Top Secret' category to which they didn't have access?
They wouldn't have known anything about if they were excluded from these secrets.
 
That is the crux of the UFO Conspiracy concept; a few people in the US industrial/miltary complex can conspire to keep the world in ignorance about the existence of a galactic civilisation we are in contact with.

That sounds extemely unlikely to me, but you might form a different opinion.
 
eburacum said:
Speaking to people, and listening to their replies, is hearsay.
Click to expand...

Yes. But he claims not only to repeat what others said. But that he saw a number of files. This makes him more of a witness.

In a recent interview Mitchell said something interesting;
(Ed Mitchell)This gentleman tried his damndest to get me in and like so many others in the administration over the last 60 years, since JFK's time, was unable to. He was told 'Admiral, you don't have a need to know, and therefore go get lost,' essentially.
Click to expand...
So some Admiral who didn't know the answers, and was asking questions in JFK's time, was told 'you don't have a need to know, so get lost'. Mitchell seems to assign a lot of importance to this, but basically it was just an Admiral who was out of the loop asking questions. That is a long way from being an inside source.
Click to expand...

Well; if I understand, this admiral asked if there was something true about UFOs. And was answered that he couldn't be told, because he didn't have a need to know. So, it means that this info was classified. At least, that's what it seems. If it wasn't, and there was nothing to hide, he would have been told that there was nothing to know.


Mitchell should have been aware that old retired miltary gentlemen get bees in their bonnets; their former high rank doesn't necessarily mean that they have any credibiity. In Britain, a cranky old Admiral would perhaps be regarded with a little more skepticism than in America.

Other old duffers who have expressed an interest in UFOs include Paul Hellyer, Canada's former Defence minister, and Lord Hill-Norton in the UK. Neither of those august gentlemen produced any evidence themselves, but instead have campaigned for more information. It doesn't seem to have crossed their minds that if people like themselves didn't know anything for certain, then perhaps there was nothing to know.
Click to expand...

No need to suppose that there is an Above top secret level. It may exist, but information is often compartimented at a same level. Someone with a Top Secret clearance will not be allowed to see all top-secret files.

That is the crux of the UFO Conspiracy concept; a few people in the US industrial/military complex can conspire to keep the world in ignorance about the existence of a galactic civilisation we are in contact with.

That sounds extremely unlikely to me, but you might form a different opinion.
Click to expand...

It may seem unlikely. But to conceal the existence of contact with an ET civilisation, or knowledge of the existence of such civilisation, or suspicion of its existence, there is a way mentionned elsewhere: to flood the public with counter information via pseudo-whistleblowers and misinformants. I think that's what happened to Dr Mitchell, he is not the first victim.
 
Yes. But he claims not only to repeat what others said. But that he saw a number of files.
Click to expand...
I suspect that the files he is talking about are probably the Majestic12 files, which are almost certainly fakes.

Now if you want a conspiracy then you might look at the provenance of those files- they are either the product of a conspiracy of UFO enthusiasts, some of whom might have been quite high up in the US secret services, or deliberate disinformation by those services.
 
Analis said:
eburacum said:
Zilch5 said:
The question for me here is - why would he make this up?
Click to expand...
I have suggested elsewhere that Dr Mitchell might have had a long standing belief in extraterrestrial life and an ambition to find it, which has not been fulfillled, despite going to the Moon.

He instead has been reporting rumours and hearsay, perhaps in an optimistic effort to make his life-long beliefs come true. Unfortunately we need more than hearsay to determine this matter.
Click to expand...

According to him, and I believe he is sincere, he spoke directly to people involved, and was shown a number of files. Not that I believe any of their contents without proof. But hearsay or rumors are not the right words.
Click to expand...

i find that difficult to believe. the guy has been voicing his opinions about the possible exsistance of extra-terestrial life for many years now. we're susposed to believe that people with access to that information let him view files? right now it is, as you say, hearsay.

analis said:
Well; if I understand, this admiral asked if there was something true about UFOs. And was answered that he couldn't be told, because he didn't have a need to know. So, it means that this info was classified. At least, that's what it seems. If it wasn't, and there was nothing to hide, he would have been told that there was nothing to know.
Click to expand...

disinformation is as classiied as actual information. the fact that the us government has admitted running covert weapons and aircraft tests under the guise of them being UFOs should explain why a straight answer wouldn't be given, regardless of whether that answer was a negative.

Analis said:
eburacum said:
That is the crux of the UFO Conspiracy concept; a few people in the US industrial/military complex can conspire to keep the world in ignorance about the existence of a galactic civilisation we are in contact with.

That sounds extremely unlikely to me, but you might form a different opinion.
Click to expand...


It may seem unlikely. But to conceal the existence of contact with an ET civilisation, or knowledge of the existence of such civilisation, or suspicion of its existence, there is a way mentionned elsewhere: to flood the public with counter information via pseudo-whistleblowers and misinformants. I think that's what happened to Dr Mitchell, he is not the first victim.
Click to expand...

i do believe that there will be an above top secret level of information, but that it applies to the testing of the weapons and aircraft i mentioned above. as for lifeforms that may be out there, which i believe there truly are, i don't think we are any nearer to finding them as they are to finding us, meaning i am of the opinion that the majority of UFOs are natural, but misunderstood and unidentified, phenomenom.
 
ihatethatmonkee3 :
i find that difficult to believe. the guy has been voicing his opinions about the possible existance of extra-terrestrial life for many years now. we're supposed to believe that people with access to that information let him view files?
Click to expand...

If someone let him view those files, it may be because there is a slow disclosure, to accustom the public; I am sceptic of it. Or because it is disinformation.

analis said:
Well; if I understand, this admiral asked if there was something true about UFOs. And was answered that he couldn't be told, because he didn't have a need to know. So, it means that this info was classified. At least, that's what it seems. If it wasn't, and there was nothing to hide, he would have been told that there was nothing to know.
Click to expand...

disinformation is as classiied as actual information. the fact that the us government has admitted running covert weapons and aircraft tests under the guise of them being UFOs should explain why a straight answer wouldn't be given, regardless of whether that answer was a negative.
Click to expand...

When you say that the US government admitted that, do you refer to the Belgian wave and the LoFlyte? This story is almost certainly bogus. A CIA historian explained too that the CIA had promoted belief in saucers in the 50s to conceal flights of U-2 and SR-71, and that they explained 50% of UFO sightings! But they could never sustain it, nor give a list of examples. These planes were probably reported as UFOs in a number of cases, but they never gave examples. Their files from this era don't mention anything like that. Worse, the CIA-sponsored Robertson Panel in 1953 stated that belief in UFOs should be strongly discouraged. Probably, the belief in UFOs was sometimes used by intelligence and military services, in the USA or other countries; but usually, in testing their staff or psychological warfare experiments, rather than as a cover.

Analis said:
eburacum said:
That is the crux of the UFO Conspiracy concept; a few people in the US industrial/military complex can conspire to keep the world in ignorance about the existence of a galactic civilisation we are in contact with.

That sounds extremely unlikely to me, but you might form a different opinion.
Click to expand...


It may seem unlikely. But to conceal the existence of contact with an ET civilisation, or knowledge of the existence of such civilisation, or suspicion of its existence, there is a way mentionned elsewhere: to flood the public with counter information via pseudo-whistleblowers and misinformants. I think that's what happened to Dr Mitchell, he is not the first victim.
Click to expand...

i do believe that there will be an above top secret level of information, but that it applies to the testing of the weapons and aircraft i mentioned above. as for lifeforms that may be out there, which i believe there truly are, i don't think we are any nearer to finding them as they are to finding us, meaning i am of the opinion that the majority of UFOs are natural, but misunderstood and unidentified, phenomenom.
Click to expand...

I wonder, which weapons would be so revolutionnary to be classified at Above Top Secret?
 
Analis said:
If someone let him view those files, it may be because there is a slow disclosure, to accustom the public; I am sceptic of it. Or because it is disinformation.
Click to expand...

a slow disclosure to just one man? a man who many now will begin to believe is a crank? slow disclosure is done as with all other types of government information, through media manipulation. the right info is drip-fed to either the biggest news channel/publication, or a government supportive one, and it is then passed, en-masse, to the viewing/reading public, not through a former apollo astronaut.

analis said:
Well; if I understand, this admiral asked if there was something true about UFOs. And was answered that he couldn't be told, because he didn't have a need to know. So, it means that this info was classified. At least, that's what it seems. If it wasn't, and there was nothing to hide, he would have been told that there was nothing to know.
Click to expand...

ihatethatmonkee3 said:
disinformation is as classiied as actual information. the fact that the us government has admitted running covert weapons and aircraft tests under the guise of them being UFOs should explain why a straight answer wouldn't be given, regardless of whether that answer was a negative.
Click to expand...

When you say that the US government admitted that, do you refer to the Belgian wave and the LoFlyte? This story is almost certainly bogus. A CIA historian explained too that the CIA had promoted belief in saucers in the 50s to conceal flights of U-2 and SR-71, and that they explained 50% of UFO sightings! But they could never sustain it, nor give a list of examples. These planes were probably reported as UFOs in a number of cases, but they never gave examples. Their files from this era don't mention anything like that. Worse, the CIA-sponsored Robertson Panel in 1953 stated that belief in UFOs should be strongly discouraged. Probably, the belief in UFOs was sometimes used by intelligence and military services, in the USA or other countries; but usually, in testing their staff or psychological warfare experiments, rather than as a cover.
Click to expand...

you assume that the 50% that could not be accounted for were genuine sightings. people have been mistaken, and at the time of these testings, people were known to have made these stories up about what they had seen. just because it wasn't a U-2 or sr-71 or venus, doesn't mean that it was a UFO in the sense of a flying saucer. it could have been some aerial phenomena which was not understood at the time (or now) or just the workings of an unbalenced mind.

Analis said:
eburacum said:
That is the crux of the UFO Conspiracy concept; a few people in the US industrial/military complex can conspire to keep the world in ignorance about the existence of a galactic civilisation we are in contact with.

That sounds extremely unlikely to me, but you might form a different opinion.
Click to expand...


It may seem unlikely. But to conceal the existence of contact with an ET civilisation, or knowledge of the existence of such civilisation, or suspicion of its existence, there is a way mentionned elsewhere: to flood the public with counter information via pseudo-whistleblowers and misinformants. I think that's what happened to Dr Mitchell, he is not the first victim.
Click to expand...

ihatethatmonkee3 said:
i do believe that there will be an above top secret level of information, but that it applies to the testing of the weapons and aircraft i mentioned above. as for lifeforms that may be out there, which i believe there truly are, i don't think we are any nearer to finding them as they are to finding us, meaning i am of the opinion that the majority of UFOs are natural, but misunderstood and unidentified, phenomenom.
Click to expand...

I wonder, which weapons would be so revolutionnary to be classified at Above Top Secret?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

we live in an age where information is more suseptable to interception through cyber-terrorists and hackers. do you not therefore thnk that maybe weapons and aircraft like the stealth bomber would in this day and age be classed as above top secret due to the sensitive nature of it. it is, after all, a weapon and an aircraft. the same goes for both the A-bomb and the H-bomb, which would surely both now been made as covertly as possible. remember, these things were completely revolutionary when they came about. and this is all based on the assumption that there even is an above top secret level. they could have just taken top secret and done away with storing that information on computers that could be accessed from outside
 
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