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What DO You Believe In?

McAvennie

McAvennie

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
3,998
There might already be a similar thread but the 'Search' function is either playing up or is not as good as the old one.

It always interests me to read the reviews of each edition of the magazine to see what articles people enjoyed and which they didn't - and it often raises a surprise as articles I think were pretty dull or a chore to read were loved by the wider audience while some I thought were very interesting were dismissed. It goes to show that we have a very broad readership, or at least we do here on the FTMB, that has people interested in pretty much every area of Forteana.

Which got me wondering, what do you really believe in? Which of the topics covered by FT, which of the great mysteries we have grown up with or stumbled across in more recent times do you actually believe exists or is true and which do you just enjoy reading the tall tales but don't actually believe to be true.

Here is mine, I'd be interested to have asked myself the same question 10/15 years ago and seen if my answers had changed:

Believe Strongly
* Government conspiracies, or at the least alternate hidden truths to historical events than what we have been told.
* Long thought extinct animals still exist in remote parts
* Existence of alien life, given the size and scale of space I think it very naive to think we are the only ones. Whether it is little grey/green men and whether they have visited us is another matter.
* JFK killed by forces within the US political system

Believe is very possible
* Cryptids may exist in small numbers in remote parts
* Men In Black, being regular humans rather than aliens who are sent to give people the scares
* An 'Illuminati' of shady, behind the scenes powers ruling the world

Believe is possible but unlikely
* Alien abduction
* 9/11 being an inside job
* Loch Ness monster
* Diana being bumped off
* Elvis/Tupac/Andy Kaufman being alive
* UFOs are alien spacecraft
* Roswell
* Ghosts
* Demonic possession. As with Ghosts, this is a 'It might be possible, there might be something which we really do not yet understand going on...' but it is way, way down closer to unlikely than possible.

Do not believe at all
* Fairies
* Shape shifting lizard overlords
* Vampires, as shapeshifting turn into bat, suck a body dry types. Humans drinking blood is another matter.
* Werewolves. Fun story but no way a human is turning into a wolf.
* Black Eyed Kids.
* Slenderman. An interesting one if you think about how the internet has created something that is having an evil influence on the real world. However, there is not some actual tall, creepy phantom figure stalking our streets.
* An all powerful God, of any denomination, who created us and sits up in the clouds watching over us.
 
I'll have to ponder my own list, but in the mean time ...

McAvennie said:
...
* Slenderman. An interesting one if you think about how the internet has created something that is having an evil influence on the real world. However, there is not some actual tall, creepy phantom figure stalking our streets.
* An all powerful God, of any denomination, who created us and sits up in the clouds watching over us.
Click to expand...

Believe Strongly

* These two phenomena, and many others addressed via FT and this FTMB, derive from the same source - the human predilections for (a) inventing a colorful mythos to explain mysteries and (b) inevitably seeking to vanquish uncertainties by propagating or even enforcing such a mythos.

* One can profit as much from mythos as from services or goods, as we have demonstrated time and again with our institutions, movements, entertainments, fads, etc.

* The most popular Fortean topics (e.g., UFO's) are often enveloped in a fog of post hoc or secondary mythos-making that can typically be traced back only so far as the inevitable mythos-profiteers.

* As time goes on, discussion and debate inexorably shift from the seminal anomalies to these second-order elaborations - sometimes to the point that the fog is all that one can see of the subject.

* There are still other things (phenomena / events / sightings / etc.) that cannot be explained by any prevailing mythos (including the mythos of physical-science-as-the-ultimate-arbiter-of-truth).

* It's getting more and more difficult to address such truly inexplicable items owing to all the pseudo-explicative fog that's been generated.
 
I watched the documentary recently-ish on JFK. It reckoned that the security bloke riding the car behind him accidently killed JFK after the first two shots and the car he was riding stopped suddenly. His gun was cocked and accidently went off. But I do believe that there was a conspiracy to get JFK out of the way and that the shot from the man on the grassy knoll missed. I read someone stating that the motorcade should never have taken a U bend because it would be an easier target for snipers. And watching the Zapruder footage the security running beside the motorcade appear to fall back before the first shot instead of staying in the line of fire.
 
Believe Strongly

That JFK died because he was revealing too much to Marylin Monroe including the reality of UFOs.
There are natural portals scattered around the planet that result in time-slips and disappearances.
The human being has been cloned.
Extra-terrestrials are already here.
Ghosts, shadow people, MIBs
Afterlife
We choose our life here and all that it entails.
There is no Devil.
Our soul is a fragment of the creator.
UFOS

Believe is very possible

The Moon hasn't always been here and is too large in size compared to the other planetary satellites.
Weve been on Mars for decades.
NASA fake the sky colour of Mars.
Not all Mars rover images come from the planet.
A secret space fleet that includes UK, US, Russian Fed and France.
Not all humans have souls.
Some ET races are not living beings but the result of advanced A.I.
Alot of the Moon landing footage is fake.
Roswell did happen.
We have back engineered ET tech
Giant skeletons
Mammoths/some dinosaurs still exist.
12th planet
Teslas technology was covered up
Germany didnt loose WW2 and Hitler did get away

Do not believe at all

Slenderman
Black eyed kids
The Conservative Party.
Putins defence on why he "invaded" Ukraine.
The claims of Laura Knight, Cassiopaea channelings
Zetatalk
Religion
 
Hi McAvennie.

I guess I'm a bit more sceptical than you, as I would dismiss virtually all conspiracy theories as utter bunkum.

As for alien life - it is too scary a thought that Earth is the sole oasis of life in this vast universe. I am sure the universe is teeming with life, but the distances between "Goldilocks planets" is likely to be so enormous that the chances of any contact between sapient species is virtually nil. For that reason, I regard UFOs as misidentified terrestrial aircraft or meteorological phenomena.

On cryptozoology, I believe there is a fair bet that there are some unknown creatures or "living fossils" in the depths of the oceans, but the odds of any sizeable terrestrial cryptid such as bigfoot or mokele m'bembe existing are negligible.

Having experienced something uncanny myself, I believe ghosts could well be some sort of "stone tape" recording, but definitely do not believe they are disembodied spirits.

Definitely believe in dowsing, as it works for me!

Would love to believe in timeslips, but sceptical.

Werewolves, vampires, fearie folk and other such folderol? Nah!
 
I believe in fairies. I just don't know what they are.

I believe that people experience weird things. These make them uneasy, so they look around for a comfortable label to slap on them, making it difficult to discuss the experience without discussing the label.

I believe that the universe is infinite and our brains are finite, so any explanation that our brains encompass easily is bound to fall short of reality.
 
Strongly
  • That there are other technically adept lifeforms within 50 ly.
  • That, for all it's faults, the scientific method is the most effective way of examining the universe.
  • That a morality is present in all social animals.
  • That life on earth will eventually recover from the anthropocene extinctions.
  • Humanist philosophy.

Maybe
  • That humanity will survive the anthropocene extinctions that they have caused or triggered.
  • That humanity will one day occupy a larger portion of the galaxy than just one solar system.
  • That enriching the environments of companion species will lead to them becoming intelligent and technologically adept.
  • That there will always be things that cannot be explained.
  • That a few cryptozoological creatures exist (Thylacines, for example) but not all.
  • That one or two conspiracies exist, e.g. the Kennedy assassinations, paedophile cover-ups, the USS Liberty incident.
  • Some philosophy

Probably not
  • The majority of conspiracies.
  • The majority of cryptozoology.
  • That there are non-human aliens in the solar system.
  • That time travel is possible.
  • That Jesus was based upon any real person.

Strongly not
  • Religion
  • A few crypto species i.e. Nessie.
  • That Moses existed.
  • That Mohammed received a divine revelation.

Never
  • Dianetitics.
  • Joseph Smith's golden balls book.
  • Homeopathy.
  • Some conspiracies (those that are total bull manure like Sandy Hook).
  • The Flood
  • The Rapture
  • Young Earth Creationism (other creations see religion)

Things I'd like to believe
  • Lares and Penates (Household deities)
  • Other spirits of place
 
I have trouble with the word believe...does it cover those things you feel you know/have direct evidence for, as opposed to just things you choose to accept in the absence of experience?

I believe - would say I KNOW - that precognition, at least in dream/daydream form is real.

I am almost as convinced but with less certainty that telepathy and other elements of psi are real.


Accepting as probably real: By extension of the above and through reading I'm persuaded, but can't say I know, that the mind is not limited to the brain. That is I buy the idea of the extended or collective mind.

From that, and reading, I can believe that the mind survives bodily death. So NDEs and ghosts etc I have no great difficulty accepting, without having experienced either myself.

Somewhat persuaded: mediums. I used to be a total disbeliever but am less certain now.

Find interesting but am not a convinced believer: alien visitation, cryptids etc.

Disbelieve: almost all conspiracy theories, demons, magic, ley lines, secret/forbidden archeology
 
Nope:
Most conspiracies, including JFK. There are so many lone nut murders in the US; they were common even in the 60's.
Devils, demons, angels, saints (except Simon Templar), gods. And miracles supposedly wrought by them.
Vampires, werewolves, other shape-shifters
UFO visitations

Maybe--I'm skeptical:
Cryptids--if so, very rare
That Magick and other types directed-thought can affect things

Probably:
Life in other star systems
Some spirit or consciousness beyond the human machine--Gaia, animism, life forces, souls

Likely:
Truly strange occurrences of synchronicity
That hauntings are caused by something, as are timeslips--possibly related

But Hamlet said it best, "There are more things in Heaven and Hell. . ." Of course I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.
 
GerdaWordyer said:
But Hamlet said it best, "There are more things in Heaven and Hell. . ." Of course I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.
Click to expand...
A pedant writes:

No, Hamlet said:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. "

;)
 
This is very interesting. It is intriguing to see the differences.

For me, things like conspiracies are one of the easiest to believe. Greed, evil, cheating and corruption are all things we surely cannot deny exist in man so to think that those elements could converge in individuals or groups of individuals in order to manufacture a positive outcome for them in a certain situation is not that hard for me.

Belief in things far harder to prove, mystical, spiritual things, is more difficult to me so it is interesting to read the views of people who are the polar opposite.
 
McAvennnie,this was a good idea for a thread. I usually check this forum buy once a week but I'll be looking in on this tomorrow.
 
McAvennie said:
For me, things like conspiracies are one of the easiest to believe. Greed, evil, cheating and corruption are all things we surely cannot deny exist in man so to think that those elements could converge in individuals or groups of individuals in order to manufacture a positive outcome for them in a certain situation is not that hard for me.
Click to expand...

I doubt anyone is saying people, including politicians, don't conspire or hide things. When most of say we disbelieve conspiracy theories it's rather a reaction to the need of people to imagine or see conspiracies everywhere, and to claims about specific alleged conspiracies without - it often seems - much recourse to common sense. The idea of constant, or even specific, cabals of masterminds behind every tragedy or "too convenient" event, never being found out except by people on the internet, and in an ever spreading web of connections.
 
I believe weird stuff happens. I believe most of the explanations for weird stuff are comforting myth (this may include my own belief in Christianity, which otherwise I won't mention further here). These myths may change over time so what we perceive as spacemen or Slenderrmen may previously have been perceived as elves and leprechauns.

I believe if our interpretation of the physical universe is correct then we are effectively alone in the universe due to the distances involved and the time-spans of likely survival of a civilisation.

That there are indeed some conspiracies among the powerful, and they are mostly in fairly open sight, but currently we (the public) are unable to get them effectively investigated due at least in part to the existence of the more extreme theories. They are not driven by some single secret organisation, but there may well be a non-organised commonality of interest which can lead people to assume there MUST be an organisation or organisations behind it.

Cryptids are possible but unlikely. Things that we don't understand in the forests are more likely to be drug dealers or drug consumers than Bigfoot, despite the masses of reports. There is (sadly) no Loch Ness Monster.

Our ancestors knew some stuff that we do not. Of course, we know lots that they didn't.

I believe it is possible that Time may not be the continuum we imagine, in which case all of the above is pretty much moot. On the same lines there is evidence (e.g. the double slit experiment) that some of our assumption about the universe's physics may be incorrect, in which case the same applies.

I don't believe in psychics, vampires, zombies, demonic possession, sexy angels or the other paraphernalia of Hollywood. Although I do believe Ouija boards are dangerous, and that reading Tarot is unwise, both these based on personal experiences.

I'll stop there - could go on for hours!
 
I believe that most things have a very mundane rather than supernatural explanation. That's about it.
 
That there is something to ghosts. Not disembodied spirits but rather stone tapes or something causing induced hallucinations.
 
GNC said:
Ah, but what about the small proportion of things that don't? That's why we're here, right?
Click to expand...
Maybe the small proporion of things that don't seem to have mundane explanations are just too subtle for us to have figured them out yet.

Given time, we may learn to understand everything.
 
I've reached a conclusion that a lot of reported Fortean events are a result of misperception or precondition. A defence-mechanism fantasy we lose ourselves in to escape the mundanity of the day to day survival.
That doesn't make it any less interesting as what we experience is a view of life from someone else's viewpoint.
I think Jacques Vallee got it right when he pointed to the link between fairy lore and Ufo lore.
I am quite partial to the belief that we live in an artificial universe defined by the lod constraint of the Planck length so none of this matters.
 
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Whatever you want to matter in life is what matters, whether that be God, your family and friends, Star Wars, or your favourite food. If you have nothing that interests you, you'll be in a directionless existence that's utterly unfulfilling. John Waters famously said "Life's nothing if you're not obsessed" and while you don't need to go that far, a strong meaning, even in something as ephemeral as Forteana, can get you through the day.

Unless proving life is meaningless is what drives you, in which case knock yourself out (not literally).
 
I bet you stub your toes all the time.
 
This is fascinating, and I must have a good think before I detail a few of my own thoughts. Certainly, there are opinions on this thread which accord with my own (my ideas probably chime about 50% with those in the OP, for example), and there are a few to which my first reaction is "you're kidding, right?" However, I realise that everyone is trying to be frank, so I'll resist any temptation to mock. You are kidding, though, aren't you?
 
Empiricism. Sadly the basic tenets of it can never be proven.
 
I fear much of what I 'believe' will have me booted off the forum, so my admissible list is hardly worth typing out.

May possibly exist:
Timeslips
Extra dimensions
Large cryptids
Extraterrestrial life (but not visitors to earth)

Almost definitely exist/ed:
Conspiracies (up to a point)
Mental/emotional links between individuals
Technically advanced ancient civilisations
Life-forms & ecosystems totally unknown to us
 
What a great topic! Conspiracies or Cover-ups happen all the time so to me it is
too general a point, whether it is blaming others for a disaster and
changing or hiding the evidence to suit the official line or "protecting" the public
from what they don't need to know. Some specific Conspiracies need mentioning though

Believe Strongly
Extraterrestrial Life exists far in advance of ourselves
Ghosts - when past and present dimensions briefly overlap
and communication is possible
Life on Earth is far older than generally thought
and advanced human civilisations have come and gone many times
Weather alteration weaponry is used to destablise countries not
deemed friendly

Believe is very possible
Extraterrestials have visited Earth in the past and present
Sasquatch\Yeti exist
9/11 - They allowed the attacks to happen
JFK assassination - Oswald was a patsy
All organised religion is a means to control the masses
The Universe was created by some intelligence
It is not the end when you die

Believe is possible but REALLY need convincing
Man has not walked on the moon
The US gov have recovered flying discs
Diana assassination - secret service involvement
JFK assassination - LBJ involvement
Nessie is a real unknown creature
9/11 - a US cabal were involved in the setup
Something alien crashed at Roswell and technology
has been developed from this

Do not believe at all
Crop Circles are made by anything other than humans
Reptile Rulers
 
eburacum said:
I don't believe in anything. I am, however, interested in lots of things, especially weird things.
Click to expand...
That goes for me too. Maybe the universe and all it contains is an illusion. And maybe we'll never know for sure. ;)
 
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