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Who Killed The Electric Car?

Mythopoeika said:
l have greatly increased costs because there will be practically no second-hand market for them to dispose of old cars.
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You're absolutely right.
As most EV manufacturers only give a 5 to 8 year warranty on their batteries, that suggests strongly that the car will be fit for the scrapyard not long after that.
Given that the most popular lease period is 3 years, an EV more than 5 or 6 years old is not an attractive proposition.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
You're absolutely right.
As most EV manufacturers only give a 5 to 8 year warranty on their batteries, that suggests strongly that the car will be fit for the scrapyard not long after that.
Given that the most popular lease period is 3 years, an EV more than 5 or 6 years old is not an attractive proposition.
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You misquoted me slightly, but no problem...
 
Sharon Hill said:
Many of these arguments are short sighted, lodged in the past. Technology evolves and changes will happen as more EVs are produced. The world will not be ruled by inefficient combustion engines forever. Sorry, gearheads.

Recycling of metals and manufacturing processes will improve. It hardly makes sense to complain about resource extraction if you love your gas/petrol engine, your coal-derived electricity, and your new electronic devices. We should do better all around. Singling out one sector is bogus.

The electricity argument is also poor since sustainable energy sources are overtaking and either already have or will soon exceed fossil fuels in many countries. I have a choice on my electricity production, and I choose green sources. It is not more expensive.

It‘s also ridiculous to use a “too expensive” arguement particularly in the US where the top selling vehicles are comparible in costs to a new EV, but fuel efficiency is rotten.

I‘m no “crunchy” environmentalist, either. I’m trying to do whatever I can, minimizing fossil fuels is a huge step that makes a difference and more people should consider it. One step at a time.
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Apart from having to bankroll a percentage of the uptake of EVs in the form of subsidies and the rollout of infrastructure -Yes. I’m contributing to that too - I have no issue with people who use their own money to buy an EV.
The big problem for me is the ideology that removes CHOICE in a decision of what I choose to drive and how I heat my home. The goal was net zero by 2030 and therefore a massive restructuring of buying habits and national grid use barged into the conversation based on nothing more than a wish from captured and suggestible members of the public, some of them in official places of power, irrationally working to an impossible deadline. When you think about it, the two biggest purchases people make in their lives, houses and cars, they wanted us all to renew and rebuy at a cost of tens of thousands of pounds people just don’t have.
Choice.
Sharon Hill. I acknowledge your stance for the electric car but your argument currently hangs on the recovery of the materials getting better. Optimistic.
I would rather have heard your opinion on the human misery of the extraction of raw minerals and pollution of the environment involved in the evolution of this ‘clean‘ means of transport.
 
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Technology almost always gets better - it's advantageous and profitable if it does. You can only sustain poor practice for so long. Often we take hidden steps backwards to eventually move forward. This applies to ALL mineral and resource extraction. Shall we even approach the topic of fossil fuel subsidies? No, I guess not because that doesn't fit with the EV hate.
There is nothing wrong with subsidies to get things off the ground. So, that's a nonstarter in this context.

Sure, if you want a car that lasts over 100,000 miles, then maybe replacing the battery will be a problem. The focus on that seems unique to this discussion because no one mentioning all the huge number of parts that need to be replaced in a gas car that runs for over 100,000 miles (that are not needed for EVs - brakes, transmission, engine, exhaust system, fuel system, etc.)
Perspective is missing here because of the hard set against the idea.

I've had my share of gas cars. I'm not going back. Your mileage may vary.
Maybe some of you don't know that I work as an environmental professional (in mining, for 31 years). I'm not ignorant.
But really, if you are going to argue against EV, get better information than from outdated, biased sources.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Whip away the subsidies, and they're dead ducks - unsellable, unsustainable.
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Maybe this is a more reasonable opinion in Europe (though it seems off base even then). But it is not even close to true in the US. EVs are becoming more popular. The younger generations wants them, for sure. So there will be a shift. We won't see the day when they outnumber all cars on the road, but their numbers will continue to grow if manufacturers keep making them.
 
Sharon Hill said:
Perspective is missing here because of the hard set against the idea.

I've had my share of gas cars. I'm not going back. Your mileage may vary.
Maybe some of you don't know that I work as an environmental professional (in mining, for 31 years). I'm not ignorant.
But really, if you are going to argue against EV, get better information than from outdated, biased sources.
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I’m not hard set against the idea. I was walking past Halfords today and both of their chargers were down. That’s a signal and there’s precious few in this area in any case.
As an expert in the mining field, could you give us an overview of the state of mining in the Congo, especially regarding the allegations of child labour mining rare elements?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...go, revelations about,, hand-dug mines, often
 
Sharon Hill said:
Maybe this is a more reasonable opinion in Europe (though it seems off base even then). But it is not even close to true in the US. EVs are becoming more popular. The younger generations wants them, for sure. So there will be a shift. We won't see the day when they outnumber all cars on the road, but their numbers will continue to grow if manufacturers keep making them.
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As with all things global warming we will never get to the truth because there is no proper debate allowed. The MSM are a government mouth piece who in turn follow their hidden masters agenda. If any think that is not so, just look back to covid where often exactly the same words were used world wide.

The main problems I see with EV's are:

Most people cannot afford them.
Replacing the battery pack is too expensive to be viable.
Batteries catching fire.
Putting out that fire.
EV's being written off after minor prangs due to potential damage to the batteries.
How the minerals for EV's are mined - child labour, etc.
Pollution cause by the mining.
The quantities of the raw material required for the batteries.
What to do with spent batteries.
The damage done to roads due to the extra weight.
Charging points - people who live in flats, high rise, etc.
Getting stuck in extended traffic jams especially in cold weather - batteries going flat.
No real second hand market.
Hire companies are getting rid of EV's as being being not worth buying.
Not viable for long journeys.

The pro's I see are:

No air pollution.
Lower maintenance costs.
Lower costs per mile - which will likely change for obvious reasons.


If anyone wants to add to either list, please feel free.
 
The dealer I bought my ICE from constantly ringing to offer me more than I paid for it while having tons of EVs they can’t sell.
 
Matt's take in the Telegraph today.


1102-MATT-PORTAL-WEB-P1.jpg
 
I know nothing about electric cars, but a friend told me that when he uses the heater during this winter he claims that this decreases his ability of going his desired distance.

If that is true, that “ sucks “.

I would not want an electric car.
 
I may be wrong but I think the figures given for range are for running the car motor. Radio, heater, a/c, 'phone, sat nav, etc. all decrease that range. Same for mileage on petrol/diesel cars althought the effect is probably less. Also depends on how you drive and I'd suspect going up hills. (Although if you come down them on the same trip that may be swings and roundabouts.)

Manufacturers are not always honest about the figures given for their vehicles - VW and others were recently "found out" on pollution claims IIRC.
 
Owners complain that their brand new Tesla Cybertrucks develop rust spots rapidly if you drive them in the rain.
Looks like the alloy mix Tesla used wasn't as stainless as promised and nowhere near as good as used on the old DeLorean.
Also, excessive tyre wear, exacerbated by the unique hub caps, has been reported.

rust.png






 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Owners complain that their brand new Tesla Cybertrucks develop rust spots rapidly if you drive them in the rain.
Looks like the alloy mix Tesla used wasn't as stainless as promised and nowhere near as good as used on the old DeLorean.
Also, excessive tyre wear, exacerbated by the unique hub caps, has been reported.

View attachment 73972





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The metal they used seems to have been selected more for its strength than its rust-resistant properties.
It's pretty much an armoured vehicle.
 

Warehouse With 900 Tonnes of Recycled Lithium Car Batteries Bursts Into Flames​

A massive fire broke out at a French industrial site used for recycling hybrid and electric car batteries on Saturday, sending thick clouds of smoke into the air.

The town of Viviez in the department of Aveyron in Southern France was shrouded by black clouds of smoke after a fire broke out at a warehouse used to hold hybrid and electric car lithium batteries. Overall, the site held an estimated 900 tonnes of lithium batteries.


Around sixty firefighters were needed to contain the blaze on Saturday, including a specialised team due to the technological risk posed by the large quantities of lithium batteries at the site. A

Although the fire largely subsided by Sunday morning, some thirty firefighters remained at the location to surveil the area and to stamp out any more fires if necessary.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...led-lithium-car-batteries-bursts-into-flames/

maximus otter
 

Once the darling of the EV world, the electric truck-maker Rivian is reeling​


Rivian Automotive Inc. emerged as a darling of investors — a brand with promise of bringing the "cool" factor to the once-red-hot market for electric vehicles.

But the Irvine-based company hit the brakes Wednesday, announcing a 10% cut to its workforce and lower production expectations. The news sent its stock plummeting. The 25% drop in stock price that it notched Thursday was its worst day in its history.

It's all part of a larger reckoning for EV companies, which now face falling demand amid a shrinking pool of wealthy buyers who don't already have an EV and lingering questions from the broader consumer market about whether EVs can truly fit into their lives and budgets.

"We’ve been living in this wave of 'Oh, EVs are great, they're going to continue the accelerated growth and only going to get better,' and now it seems like they're hitting this reality point," said Jessica Caldwell, head of insights at Edmunds. "Mass-market buyers have less income and a lot more questions."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/ar-BB1iK3tW

maximus otter
 

Is this the end of the electric car? Apple pulls plug on e-car project as Aston Martin delays first fully-electric model after Ford, Mercedes, Audi and VW scaled back plans​


Car makers from Mercedes-Benz to Ford are delaying or scrapping further electric vehicles (EVs) as demand slows in Britain and abroad.

Manufacturers are grappling with weaker demand for EVs than expected with buyers put off by fears over insufficient charging infrastructure and expensive price tags.

Just this week, Apple cancelled work on its electric car project dubbed Titan and Aston Martin delayed the launch of its first battery electric vehicle (BEV) until 2026.

Mercedes-Benz delayed its electrification goal last week, while Ford has said it is rethinking its EV strategies and Volkswagen delayed launching a forthcoming EV. And in recent months, Audi and General Motors have also reviewed their EV rollouts.

Purchases of new electric cars by private buyers fell 25 per cent in a year in January, latest figures from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) revealed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...le-aston-martin-delay-ford-mercedes-audi.html

maximus otter
 

Most Carmakers Lose An Average Of $6,000 On Every Electric Vehicle They Sell: Report​


A new study from Boston Consulting Group shows that OEMs are in an interesting squeeze, needing to lower prices and improve performance in order to attract the next tier of EV buyers while also needing to make the vehicles profitable.

https://www.theautopian.com/most-ca...0-on-every-electric-vehicle-they-sell-report/

maximus otter
 

Demand for electric cars slows sharply as customers revert to petrol​


Electric car demand has slowed sharply in a sign that drivers are turning back to petrol.

The market share of battery electric vehicles (EVs) declined last month, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said.

EV registrations rose only 3.8pc from a year earlier, compared with a 10pc advance in the overall car market. Hybrid and petrol-powered cars showed the strongest growth.

Petrol-engine sales rose 9.2pc and accounted for more than half of the total, while plug-in hybrids saw a 37pc increase.

What gains EVs did achieve in March were driven entirely by fleet and business purchases, with sales to ordinary drivers dropping...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/04/electric-car-demand-slows-petrol-vehicles/

maximus otter
 
Another thing that can kill EV cars... software upgrades that can brick the electronics...
Funnily enough, my neighbour who has a Kona doesn't seem to have it right now. I wonder if they have had the same issue?
 
Mythopoeika said:
Another thing that can kill EV cars... software upgrades that can brick the electronics...
Funnily enough, my neighbour who has a Kona doesn't seem to have it right now. I wonder if they have had the same issue?
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Geofencing and geotiming. People in general think that will never happen. They would not install this stuff unless it was intended to be used at some point.

A few months back someone in the car park from my block had called the breakdown people because he couldn't get the doors to open on his fairly new EV. Whilst the breakdown bloke was on his phone I asked him apart from the door problem how's the car? He said he wished he'd never bought it as the manufacturer lied about the range. Another complaint he had was the cost of the changing points recently installed in the car park and that the equivalent petrol car of the same make would be cheaper per mile.

With the door problem, unrelated to the car being an EV, it was probably a software issue and the car would have to go back to the dealership. When the breakdown mechanic said that the air turned blue. He said he was on his way to work and he couldn't get there by public transport.

The joys of modern motoring.
 
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I spent a happy half an hour last week stuck behind a pickup towing a trailer carrying an electric BMW. The annoyance of not being able to pass due to double white lines was mitigated by my reflection on this sorry and sad state of electric affairs.
 
kesavaross said:
the manufacturer lied about the range.
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In all fairness, the same can be said about petrol engines.
MPG figures quoted are usually obtained on a flat test track, with a car made as light as possible and with door seams taped up to improve aerodynamics. No average user can expect anything approaching manufacturer's MPG figures.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
In all fairness, the same can be said about petrol engines.
MPG figures quoted are usually obtained on a flat test track, with a car made as light as possible and with door seams taped up to improve aerodynamics. No average user can expect anything approaching manufacturer's MPG figures.
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That is so true and it's always been that way. The difference is that with a petrol car it's easy to find a petrol station. That's not so for an EV but there again, that's an infrastructure problem.
 
"Why are EV sales falling?"
An interesting video by an economist/finance expert, with a great, dry sense of humour.
 
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