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Who Killed The Electric Car?

Those 'All Electric' Fire Trucks are a Sad Joke


New Mexico Governor Michelle Grisham was recently excited to announce that the state's Environment Department was awarding a nearly half-million dollar grant to Bernalillo County to partially finance the purchase of a new "all-electric" fire truck for their fire department. It was only a "partial" reimbursement because the projected cost to the county to replace its 1991 diesel fire engine with a Pierce Volterra battery electric fire engine was more than $1.8 million. The local fire chief was quoted as proudly saying, "There’s no cancer coming out of the tailpipe" of the new truck. So that's a win for all concerned, right?

0c836732-8212-416f-abdd-142fad243556-1052x615.jpg


Not so fast there, chief. You have to read quite a ways down into the announcement to learn the uncomfortable truth about this purchase. The supposedly "all-electric" fire engine has a diesel engine in it. The pumps that actually deliver the water to put out fires run off of the diesel engine and the truck itself can run off of diesel when the battery inevitably runs out. So the entire description of "all-electric" is a farce.

So why would these fire trucks still have diesel engines? They're supposed to be eliminating fossil fuels to save us all from climate change, aren't they? The answer should be fairly obvious. These are emergency response vehicles. If your neighbor's EV can't make it out of the driveway one morning because they couldn't find a charging station or there was a blackout, they might miss a day of work. If the fire truck can't do its job, buildings will burn down and people may die.

If a conventional fire truck begins running low on diesel, a refueling truck can be brought over to fill up the tank in a few minutes. You can't accelerate the battery recharging process.

Here is another fun fact about these trucks: Those "all-electric" fire trucks cost 40 to 50 percent more than conventional, diesel models. The one that Bernalillo County purchased cost $1.8 million. That's roughly $600,000 more than standard diesel truck costs and that bill was saddled on the taxpayers...

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/05/24/those-all-electric-firetrucks-are-a-sad-joke-n3788988

maximus otter
 

Those 'All Electric' Fire Trucks are a Sad Joke


New Mexico Governor Michelle Grisham was recently excited to announce that the state's Environment Department was awarding a nearly half-million dollar grant to Bernalillo County to partially finance the purchase of a new "all-electric" fire truck for their fire department. It was only a "partial" reimbursement because the projected cost to the county to replace its 1991 diesel fire engine with a Pierce Volterra battery electric fire engine was more than $1.8 million. The local fire chief was quoted as proudly saying, "There’s no cancer coming out of the tailpipe" of the new truck. So that's a win for all concerned, right?

0c836732-8212-416f-abdd-142fad243556-1052x615.jpg


Not so fast there, chief. You have to read quite a ways down into the announcement to learn the uncomfortable truth about this purchase. The supposedly "all-electric" fire engine has a diesel engine in it. The pumps that actually deliver the water to put out fires run off of the diesel engine and the truck itself can run off of diesel when the battery inevitably runs out. So the entire description of "all-electric" is a farce.

So why would these fire trucks still have diesel engines? They're supposed to be eliminating fossil fuels to save us all from climate change, aren't they? The answer should be fairly obvious. These are emergency response vehicles. If your neighbor's EV can't make it out of the driveway one morning because they couldn't find a charging station or there was a blackout, they might miss a day of work. If the fire truck can't do its job, buildings will burn down and people may die.

If a conventional fire truck begins running low on diesel, a refueling truck can be brought over to fill up the tank in a few minutes. You can't accelerate the battery recharging process.

Here is another fun fact about these trucks: Those "all-electric" fire trucks cost 40 to 50 percent more than conventional, diesel models. The one that Bernalillo County purchased cost $1.8 million. That's roughly $600,000 more than standard diesel truck costs and that bill was saddled on the taxpayers...

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/05/24/those-all-electric-firetrucks-are-a-sad-joke-n3788988

maximus otter
It's plain to see that they gave it a lot of thought before their purchase then? :loopy:
 
Apart from the charging time, we are talking about a big water tank on an eletrical car. What are the odds of electrocution?
 

Those 'All Electric' Fire Trucks are a Sad Joke


New Mexico Governor Michelle Grisham was recently excited to announce that the state's Environment Department was awarding a nearly half-million dollar grant to Bernalillo County to partially finance the purchase of a new "all-electric" fire truck for their fire department. It was only a "partial" reimbursement because the projected cost to the county to replace its 1991 diesel fire engine with a Pierce Volterra battery electric fire engine was more than $1.8 million. The local fire chief was quoted as proudly saying, "There’s no cancer coming out of the tailpipe" of the new truck. So that's a win for all concerned, right?

0c836732-8212-416f-abdd-142fad243556-1052x615.jpg


Not so fast there, chief. You have to read quite a ways down into the announcement to learn the uncomfortable truth about this purchase. The supposedly "all-electric" fire engine has a diesel engine in it. The pumps that actually deliver the water to put out fires run off of the diesel engine and the truck itself can run off of diesel when the battery inevitably runs out. So the entire description of "all-electric" is a farce.

So why would these fire trucks still have diesel engines? They're supposed to be eliminating fossil fuels to save us all from climate change, aren't they? The answer should be fairly obvious. These are emergency response vehicles. If your neighbor's EV can't make it out of the driveway one morning because they couldn't find a charging station or there was a blackout, they might miss a day of work. If the fire truck can't do its job, buildings will burn down and people may die.

If a conventional fire truck begins running low on diesel, a refueling truck can be brought over to fill up the tank in a few minutes. You can't accelerate the battery recharging process.

Here is another fun fact about these trucks: Those "all-electric" fire trucks cost 40 to 50 percent more than conventional, diesel models. The one that Bernalillo County purchased cost $1.8 million. That's roughly $600,000 more than standard diesel truck costs and that bill was saddled on the taxpayers...

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/05/24/those-all-electric-firetrucks-are-a-sad-joke-n3788988

maximus otter
It has a diesel to provide backup power generation if the battery runs out if actual firefighting takes too long. It has battery because it doesn't need to run on diesel to get cats out of trees and all the other things firefighters get called out for. A quick Google search shows firefighters estimating their truck gets 1800-2000 call outs a year, which would be pretty much all short distances. There are presumably not 2000 fires per truck per year.
 
It has a diesel to provide backup power generation if the battery runs out if actual firefighting takes too long. It has battery because it doesn't need to run on diesel to get cats out of trees and all the other things firefighters get called out for. A quick Google search shows firefighters estimating their truck gets 1800-2000 call outs a year, which would be pretty much all short distances. There are presumably not 2000 fires per truck per year.
Maybe so, but at $1.8 million... (as quoted) ?
 
Maybe so, but at $1.8 million... (as quoted) ?
The regular trucks cost 1.2m per the article, and presumably it was time for the old truck to get replaced. So they were going to be paying at least 1.2m in any case. They paid 600k extra for electric.

Whether that extra 600k turns out to be cost effective over the expected lifetime and mileage of a fire truck probably remains to be seen at this point given the newness of electric fire trucks.
 
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The regular trucks cost 1.2m per the article, and presumably it was time for the old truck to get replaced. So they were going to be paying at least 1.2m in any case. They paid 600k extra for electric.

Whether that extra 600k turns out to be cost effective over the expected lifetime and mileage of a fire truck probably remains to be seen at this point given the newness of electric fire trucks.
IF the e-batteries go into thermal runaway and the truck goes up in flames (definitely a cosmic joker event) they will have the right people to deal with it.
 
IF the e-batteries go into thermal runaway and the truck goes up in flames (definitely a cosmic joker event) they will have the right people to deal with it.
They might well have the right people to deal with it - but if the fire gets out of hand then they would have to call out another engine in order to fight the fire trucks fire, as it could be too hot to handle!:)
 

Nearly Half Of US EV Drivers Consider Switching Back To Gas Vehicles


Forty-six percent of EV owners surveyed in the United States say they will likely return to driving gas-powered vehicles.

Globally, the survey of 30,000 respondents in 15 countries found that more than one-quarter (29 percent) of EV owners are likely to go back to driving gas-powered cars.

Australia topped the list with 49 percent confirming they want to return to driving behind the wheel of an gas-powered automobile, the study found.

The lack of public charging infrastructure was the chief reason respondents wanted to switch back to gas-powered vehicles, with 35 percent saying it is “not yet good enough for me.”

Thirty-four percent noted that the total costs of EV ownership were “too high.”

The list of reasons for being disappointed in electric cars rounded out with being unable to charge at home (24 percent), too much worry and stress about charging (21 percent), changing mobility requirements (16 percent), and not enjoying the driving experience (13 percent).

Overall, 21 percent of global respondents said they would never want to switch to an electric vehicle, unchanged from 2022. By comparison, 18 percent confirmed their next automobile will be an EV, up from 16 percent in 2022.

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/ne...er-switching-back-gas-vehicles-mckinsey-study

maximus otter
 

Nearly Half Of US EV Drivers Consider Switching Back To Gas Vehicles


Forty-six percent of EV owners surveyed in the United States say they will likely return to driving gas-powered vehicles.

Globally, the survey of 30,000 respondents in 15 countries found that more than one-quarter (29 percent) of EV owners are likely to go back to driving gas-powered cars.

Australia topped the list with 49 percent confirming they want to return to driving behind the wheel of an gas-powered automobile, the study found.

The lack of public charging infrastructure was the chief reason respondents wanted to switch back to gas-powered vehicles, with 35 percent saying it is “not yet good enough for me.”

Thirty-four percent noted that the total costs of EV ownership were “too high.”

The list of reasons for being disappointed in electric cars rounded out with being unable to charge at home (24 percent), too much worry and stress about charging (21 percent), changing mobility requirements (16 percent), and not enjoying the driving experience (13 percent).

Overall, 21 percent of global respondents said they would never want to switch to an electric vehicle, unchanged from 2022. By comparison, 18 percent confirmed their next automobile will be an EV, up from 16 percent in 2022.

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/ne...er-switching-back-gas-vehicles-mckinsey-study

maximus otter
Over half of US EV Drivers Would Not Switch Back to Gas Vehicles

There, fixed it.

I'm sure the horse-drawn carriage drivers didn't want to drive cars either. Nonsense stuff. Change takes time. Improvements will continue. Gas cars are old tech and will be mostly (not entirely) replaced.
 
Apart from the fact that fleets get subsidies, the main issue is not the just the cars but the infrastructure needed to charge them. The early adopters have garages, drives and space to install chargers. Other users have to stretch cables across pavements to achieve a domestic tariff. Using commercial chargers is way more expensive. Broken Britain would need a massive cash investment just in training for people to professionally qualify for adding to the National Grid and building more power stations - which should have been started 5 years ago to be remotely on track.
 
Apart from the fact that fleets get subsidies, the main issue is not the just the cars but the infrastructure needed to charge them. The early adopters have garages, drives and space to install chargers. Other users have to stretch cables across pavements to achieve a domestic tariff. Using commercial chargers is way more expensive. Broken Britain would need a massive cash investment just in training for people to professionally qualify for adding to the National Grid and building more power stations - which should have been started 5 years ago to be remotely on track.
Completely true. It's a huge change.

Not sure if you have ICEing in the UK but people are dicks about EV charging in many places in the US.
 
I've just been looking up the price of second hand EV's. A 2021 Hyundai EV. £35 000 new. 13 500 on the clock. Now yours for £13 650.

https://quotes.carwow.co.uk/deals/b9ce7fb10d1eea5fa2500fd64fe7f0df

My 2013 Transit T200. 81 000 on the clock. Bought 4 years ago for £5 800. Now worth £4 300.
Most depreciation happens in the first few years, then declines slowly. Your T200 had that happen before you bought it.

A better comparison would be sticker price new in 2013 ($22,500 vs resale price in 2017, four years later).
 
I wonder how much of the lowered EV sales are due to there being one main seller, Tesla, and that company being so closely tied to Elon, whose antics likely do not help with the demographic most likely to purchase an EV.

e7juqrrk77mb1.jpg
 

Electric car drivers will be forced to pay London's £15-a-day Congestion Charge from Christmas 2025


From 25 December 2025 EVs will have to pay the full amount to drive in the capital's Congestion Charge Zone, Transport for London has confirmed this week.

Owners of zero-emission models currently benefit from only having to pay £10 for an annual exemption from the charging zone, but TfL has confirmed they will be stung with the standard rate - a £15 daily charge - from the end of next year.

One expert dubbed the decision 'puzzling' while others suggest the London Mayor Sadiq Khan is attempting to make up for the shortfall in revenue generated by the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/e...-day-Christmas-2025.html?ico=mol_desktop_home

maximus otter
 
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Electric car drivers will be forced to pay London's £15-a-day Congestion Charge from Christmas 2025

From 25 December 2025 EVs will have to pay the full amount to drive in the capital's Congestion Charge Zone, Transport for London has confirmed this week.

Owners of zero-emission models currently benefit from only having to pay £10 for an annual exemption from the charging zone, but TfL has confirmed they will be stung with the standard rate - a £15 daily charge - from the end of next year.

One expert dubbed the decision 'puzzling' while others suggest the London Mayor Sadiq Khan is attempting to make up for the shortfall in revenue generated by the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/e...-day-Christmas-2025.html?ico=mol_desktop_home

maximus otter
Hands up, who saw that coming? :chuckle:
 

Nearly Half Of US EV Drivers Consider Switching Back To Gas Vehicles


Forty-six percent of EV owners surveyed in the United States say they will likely return to driving gas-powered vehicles.

Globally, the survey of 30,000 respondents in 15 countries found that more than one-quarter (29 percent) of EV owners are likely to go back to driving gas-powered cars.

Australia topped the list with 49 percent confirming they want to return to driving behind the wheel of an gas-powered automobile, the study found.

The lack of public charging infrastructure was the chief reason respondents wanted to switch back to gas-powered vehicles, with 35 percent saying it is “not yet good enough for me.”

Thirty-four percent noted that the total costs of EV ownership were “too high.”

The list of reasons for being disappointed in electric cars rounded out with being unable to charge at home (24 percent), too much worry and stress about charging (21 percent), changing mobility requirements (16 percent), and not enjoying the driving experience (13 percent).

Overall, 21 percent of global respondents said they would never want to switch to an electric vehicle, unchanged from 2022. By comparison, 18 percent confirmed their next automobile will be an EV, up from 16 percent in 2022.

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/ne...er-switching-back-gas-vehicles-mckinsey-study

maximus otter
I note that these are two very very large countries (USA and Australia) with often miles and miles of nothing between towns. I can see why the prospect of covering hundreds of miles without convenient charging points might be an issue here. At least in the UK we have towns or cities a bit more frequently.

If they improve batteries so that a car could go, say a thousand miles between charges, I would expect the US and Australian concern levels would drop significantly.
 
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