WTC Demolition Conspiracy

[ted_bloody_maul]

but it's the ct's themselves that make such a big issue of the academic qualifications. if a couple of professors with expertise in the area make some kind of statement contrary to the official line then the ct's place their faith in them. the fact that the vast majority of other experts don't challenge it only proves the conspiracy is even bigger than previously thought.

techy, do you think the english literature student in there has any greater insight or expertise to bring to bare on this topic than anyone else?

 

[techybloke666]

but it's the ct's themselves that make such a big issue of the academic qualifications. if a couple of professors with expertise in the area make some kind of statement contrary to the official line then the ct's place their faith in them. the fact that the vast majority of other experts don't challenge it only proves the conspiracy is even bigger than previously thought.

techy, do you the english literature student in there has any greater insight or expertise to bring to bare on this topic than anyone else?

I think your making CT's into something they are not there TED, people who have an interest in Conspiracy Theories have ordinary lives just like everyone else.

If I read a peice from NIST that has not got errors in its assumptions I like that peice.
If I read something by NIST that is flawed and it is pointed out by a PHD professor I will take the PHD professors info and investigate.

If after that I err against NISTS report its based on looking at lots of information.

The NIST report is fairly good in respect to the WTC1 and WTC2 explanations. I am still waiting for WTC7 subcontracted report out soon.

The NIST report on the Pentagon is poor.

English Literature students ???? any reason why them ???

It depends on them I suppose which one are you thinking of ?

 

[Jerry_B]

If I read something by NIST that is flawed and it is pointed out by a PHD professor I will take the PHD professors info and investigate.

What if that PhD doesn't actually have any pertinent professional or academic qualifications to make such judgements? A PhD doesn't magically grant you insights to everything under the sun, after all.

 

[Jerry_B]

I,m quite sure that any experts that the CT's may bring to the table would be unsuitable as experts as far as you are concerned anyway Jerry.

Not at all - providing you could show that they were sufficently qualified to make any claims. What you think is good enough in terms of qualifications is not necessarily what the rest of the world would consider sufficient. If ordinarly people on a forum can find fault with their arguments, that wouldn't bode all that well for any peer review they would have to undergo, would it?

 

[techybloke666]

True he may not be a specialist but his arguemnts should be investigated none the less.

to just say the man is not qualified so I will disregard him is narrow minded.

 

[oilwar]

Mossad

There needs to be an option in the poll for Mossad and also Mossad plus US Security Services.

Mossad knew 9/11 was going to happen. And they were there filming and celebrating. It was initially reported on the BBC as well as many other news websites. Almost all of those websites have now removed the story. I managed to find this one though, from a truly independent mainstream Scottish newspaper:

"THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil"

"They were Israelis – and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad"

http://www.sundayherald.com/37707

Eye witnesses including the experienced fire & rescue personnel at the twin towers reported multiple explosions and demolition. The leaseholder of the complex, Larry Silverstein, is on record as having authorised the demolition:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... ilverstein

Silverstein had just secured an insurance deal specifically paying out for terrorist attacks, making the disaster very valuable to him personally.

Incidentally he was also Zionist and a big supporter and fundraiser for Israel according to the Jerusalem Post:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jpost/acces ... MTS=ABS:FT

Remember that these people are so confident in YOUR inability to see the obvious or do anything about it that they barely bothered to cover their tracks. Think about that. Think about it long and hard.

 

[Heckler]

True he may not be a specialist but his arguemnts should be investigated none the less.

to just say the man is not qualified so I will disregard him is narrow minded.

Techy, you're using the wrong conditioner on your hair.

I am a well qualified IT person therefore my statement on conditioner shold hold more weight than someone with no qualifications whatsoever?

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

I think your making CT's into something they are not there TED, people who have an interest in Conspiracy Theories have ordinary lives just like everyone else."

what like the rest of the "sheeple"? yes, they do but by and large so do people with religious belief systems like evangelical christianity and fundamentalist islam. also, like them they reject information and theories that don't correspond with their faith but if the same mechanism is used to provide evidence that (apparently) backs up their claims they leap on it with great fervour. either way, it's really an irrelevance what kind of lives people who believe in such theories have.

If I read a peice from NIST that has not got errors in its assumptions I like that peice.
If I read something by NIST that is flawed and it is pointed out by a PHD professor I will take the PHD professors info and investigate.

If after that I err against NISTS report its based on looking at lots of information."

yes but because of the religious zeal i've just mentioned i find that more often than not the detail in which the devil lies is usually jettisoned. as a result i've gone from being generally approving of conspiracy theories to enormously sceptical of them in the few years i've used this board. too many theories put forward with great vigour only to collapse with a cursory examination.

English Literature students ???? any reason why them ???

It depends on them I suppose which one are you thinking of ?

well if it depends on them then why do i need to know what they're studying or that he's studying at all? it seems to me that they're promoting themselves as "academics" because the ordinary punters will be more likely to believe them despite the fact that most of them are no more qualified than themselves.

 

[techybloke666]

[what like the rest of the "sheeple"? yes, they do but by and large so do people with religious belief systems like evangelical christianity and fundamentalist islam. also, like them they reject information and theories that don't correspond with their faith but if the same mechanism is used to provide evidence that (apparently) backs up their claims they leap on it with great fervour. either way, it's really an irrelevance what kind of lives people who believe in such theories have.

Sheeple hmmmm yes perhaps not the best way to refer to people I have to agree.
But as far as I can tell from your post you have a lower respect for CT's than we do of Sheeple so to speak.

yes but because of the religious zeal i've just mentioned i find that more often than not the detail in which the devil lies is usually jettisoned. as a result i've gone from being generally approving of conspiracy theories to enormously sceptical of them in the few years i've used this board. too many theories put forward with great vigour only to collapse with a cursory examination.

Good for you I'm proud of you.

well if it depends on them then why do i need to know what they're studying or that he's studying at all? it seems to me that they're promoting themselves as "academics" because the ordinary punters will be more likely to believe them despite the fact that most of them are no more qualified than themselves.

lost me I'm afraid - a persons veiw is important whatever their experience or skills.
To ignore people that one feels are not qualified is to miss out on something possibly.

From looking looking at years of info on the wtc collapses I have decided that the towers were not built to the spec's that people thought they were.
Hence their demise in such a grand fashion.
I still believe however that the US government knew a more about the plot than they will admit too.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

Re: Mossad

There needs to be an option in the poll for Mossad and also Mossad plus US Security Services.

Mossad knew 9/11 was going to happen. And they were there filming and celebrating. It was initially reported on the BBC as well as many other news websites. Almost all of those websites have now removed the story. I managed to find this one though, from a truly independent mainstream Scottish newspaper:

i think i remember this story - is this the one where the shadowy intelligence services spies, before escaping to safety and not giving away their part in the biggest conspiracy the world has ever known, were whooping and hollering like they were in the jerry springer audience as the towers billowed smoke?

by the way the herald is one of the worst offenders i know for factual innacuracy and potentially downright lies.

 

[Anonymous]

To be honest I read that article I quoted and I agree with the skeptics here.

The article refers to our old friends Professor Jones and his '9/11 Scholars for Truth'.

These people have nothing new to add in my view.

One thing intrigues me about the article however;

But leading scientists say the facts of their investigations cannot be ignored and say they have evidence that points to one of the biggest conspiracies ever perpetrated.

Professor Steven Jones, who lectures in physics at the Brigham Young University in Utah, says the official version of events is the biggest and most evil cover up in history.

He has joined the 9/11 Scholars for Truth whose membership includes up to 75 leading scientists and experts from universities across the US.

Right - how true is that?

Also, what would a Professor of physics and a bunch of leading scientists and experts know about pressure, heat, inertia, impact or anything else to do with physics?

Come to think of it, what has physics got to do with the WTC and what happened there anyway?

Surely engineering has nothing at all to do with physics?

 

[Heckler]

Right - how true is that?

Also, what would a Professor of physics and a bunch of leading scientists and experts know about pressure, heat, inertia, impact or anything else to do with physics?

Come to think of it, what has physics got to do with the WTC and what happened there anyway?

Surely engineering has nothing at all to do with physics?

Steven Earl Jones is a professor of physics at Brigham Young University who conducts research in nuclear fusion and solar energy.

Source
Draw your own conclusions....

 

[Jerry_B]

Re: Mossad

Remember that these people are so confident in YOUR inability to see the obvious or do anything about it that they barely bothered to cover their tracks. Think about that. Think about it long and hard.

You may need to go back and read the various 9/11 threads - we've already gone over the points you've raised more than thrice...

 

[techybloke666]

You may need to go back and read the various 9/11 threads - we've already gone over the points you've raised more than thrice...

I can see Oilwar leaving to find a more welcoming board within a few hours

Oilwar this is a second thread about WTC etc that is shortish the original one was unwieldy so the Mods cut it down a little.

I,m sure Jerry will paste a link to the complete stuff if you have a couple of years to read thro it.

I take it your Pro Conspiracy at the moment ?

 

[Jerry_B]

True he may not be a specialist but his arguemnts should be investigated none the less.

to just say the man is not qualified so I will disregard him is narrow minded.

So anyone with a degree or PhD is qualified enough for you? Wouldn't it be much better for the conspiracy if they actully found people who were specialists in the specific areas needed, and that their findings sustained peer review?

Having a bunch of academics with no particular specialisation and without any recourse to peer review is not exactly the best way of going about things.

 

[techybloke666]

Hey for once I agree Jerry it would help alot for that to happen.

might make things alot clearer

good plan

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

To be honest I read that article I quoted and I agree with the skeptics here.

The article refers to our old friends Professor Jones and his '9/11 Scholars for Truth'.

These people have nothing new to add in my view.

One thing intrigues me about the article however;

But leading scientists say the facts of their investigations cannot be ignored and say they have evidence that points to one of the biggest conspiracies ever perpetrated.

Professor Steven Jones, who lectures in physics at the Brigham Young University in Utah, says the official version of events is the biggest and most evil cover up in history.

He has joined the 9/11 Scholars for Truth whose membership includes up to 75 leading scientists and experts from universities across the US.

Right - how true is that?

Also, what would a Professor of physics and a bunch of leading scientists and experts know about pressure, heat, inertia, impact or anything else to do with physics?

Come to think of it, what has physics got to do with the WTC and what happened there anyway?

Surely engineering has nothing at all to do with physics?

i'd say you're either intrentionally missing the point here or you're just not capable of getting it. this rather backs up what i was talking about earlier: if a couple of guys with the relevant qualifications claim one thing and are then joined by a load of other unrelated "academics" then that is equal to the overwhelming majority of experts who believe something else, or at least that's what i understand from these posts.

 

[techybloke666]

i'd say you're either intrentionally missing the point here or you're just not capable of getting it. this rather backs up what i was talking about earlier: if a couple of guys with the relevant qualifications claim one thing and are then joined by a load of other unrelated "academics" then that is equal to the overwhelming majority of experts who believe something else, or at least that's what i understand from these posts.

I think your getting a little bit of an edge on you there TED.

I'm sure Cold is well capable of understanding everything talked about on here.

 

[Jerry_B]

Hey for once I agree Jerry it would help alot for that to happen.

might make things alot clearer

good plan

So the fact that none of them seem to have offered up any of their analysis for peer review doesn't strike you as particularly lacklustre? After all, if their findings were that strong in terms of argument and evidence, the one thing they should do is get it peer reviewed.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

yes but because of the religious zeal i've just mentioned i find that more often than not the detail in which the devil lies is usually jettisoned. as a result i've gone from being generally approving of conspiracy theories to enormously sceptical of them in the few years i've used this board. too many theories put forward with great vigour only to collapse with a cursory examination.

Good for you I'm proud of you.

don't be proud of me - be proud of yourself.

 

[techybloke666]

don't be proud of me - be proud of yourself.

ooo I'm always proud of myself Ted especially when I have just driven a golf Ball over 300 yards down the centre of a fairway.

come to think of it , its sunny outside why am I still typing rubbish on here.


off to the course

PING

 

[Heckler]

why am I still typing rubbish on here.

You've only just started to wonder that?

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

why am I still typing rubbish on here.

You've only just started to wonder that?

now, now, heckler!

don't think the spinal tap reference didn't go unnoticed earlier either. :lol:

 

[Heckler]

don't think the spinal tap reference didn't go unnoticed earlier either. :lol:

Well, it should've been recorded in Dobly shouldn't it?

 

[crunchy5]

I would think a prof of physics would have the required background even if he was specializing in solar energy at the mo, sometimes I have to laugh at your trusting attitude to big oil and governments, " oh they might do that in Africa but they'd never do it here" " they did that kind of stuff in the 50's but hey human nature and greed have changed now" 8)

 

[techybloke666]

So the fact that none of them seem to have offered up any of their analysis for peer review doesn't strike you as particularly lacklustre? After all, if their findings were that strong in terms of argument and evidence, the one thing they should do is get it peer reviewed.

If you look back I agree with you Jerry

They should indeed get their findings peer reviewed I AGREE

Just in case you didnt hear me

as to why it has'nt happened I have no idea , maybe they will soon who knows.

Hopefully so

Heckler20 wrote:
techybloke666 wrote:
why am I still typing rubbish on here.

You've only just started to wonder that?

errr thats that pint I was going to get you out the window

 

[Dingo667]

Just my pennies worth again. Does it matter what these people are qualified in?
I thought just the fact that they are academics would add the credibility that your average fireman, caretaker etc doesn't have. In the sense that it takes some brains to get a Phd.

Now the above is not my own opinion. I think that anyone who has seen or heard something should be listened to. However as in UFO sightings it seems to matter if the witnesses are sort of "official", menaing that a couple of police officers who have seen a UFO are believed more than an intelligent housewife from Wales for example.

So here we have studied people, people who are by law allowed to sign your passport application because they are deemed "professionals". People who have studied for years, sat through exams and passed. Does it really matter what they have studied?

Apparently for the skeptic brigade nobody is ever good, honest, reliable, clever, official, knowledgable enough to be believed. However one report from a government related agency [even this may churn out more questions than answers] has to be believed without any doubt whatsoever.

I am baffled. What does it take?

 

[Jerry_B]

So here we have studied people, people who are by law allowed to sign your passport application because they are deemed "professionals". People who have studied for years, sat through exams and passed. Does it really matter what they have studied?

Of course it does. Years spent studying do not necessarily make you a font of all knowledge - unless, in this case, what you've studied is directly relevant to the situation under discussion. Very specific knowledge is needed in order to provide the fullest evaluation of events - simply having a degree, PhD, etc. and studying for years in any subject does not make you somehow able to make a qualified statement about what's being discussed here.

I imagine you wouldn't let an art history PhD give you a diagnosis if he or she was sitting in for your GP, would you? This seems to be the sort of situation you're suggesting - that anyone who's been studying for years and has some sort of academic qualification is fit to pronounce on what is a very specialised subject.

 

[techybloke666]

Of course it does. Years spent studying do not necessarily make you a font of all knowledge - unless, in this case, what you've studied is directly relevant to the situation under discussion. Very specific knowledge is needed in order to provide the fullest evaluation of events - simply having a degree, PhD, etc. and studying for years in any subject does not make you somehow able to make a qualified statement about what's being discussed here

I agree up to a point Jerry.
But What a PHd gives you is the long haul at how to look at things , How to study, how to dissect, investigate and come to hopefully an accurate appraisal of the thing being studied.
learned people have the ability to think outside their fields on many occasions.
Just becouse a Professor is qualified in Applied Statistics does not mean he could have no input to say Criminology for instance.

 

[misterwibble]

Have any of you people actually dealt with academics in any professional capacity? One thing I've learnt is that nearly all professors think they're an expert in everything, let alone their specialist field. And they get really touchy when you point out that they're talking bollocks.