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The Enfield Poltergeist

Has anyone watched The Enfield Haunting, the complete series?
I just bought it for a fiver from ASDA, and i wondered what peeps thought of it
 
i have not watched it, and dont intend to, but people that have watched it seem to say its a good ghost story, but not an accurate picture of what really happened
 
Yeah, it had little to do with the complexities of the case. It'd be great to see something which did. Hopefully with the same pair of Spall and Macfayden.
 
oldrover said:
Yeah, it had little to do with the complexities of the case. It'd be great to see something which did. Hopefully with the same pair of Spall and Macfayden.
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This is sort of unrelated in that it isn't about the Enfield case but the only other horror project I'm aware of that Timothy Spall starred in; 1988's 'Dream Demon' ... which wasn't very good from memory ...

 
Timothy Spall was in Ken Russell's Gothic too, a horror movie version of the night Mary Shelley thought up Frankenstein.
 
Yeah, Dream Demon was a bit crap really wasn't it. I saw it years ago on a C4, S4C for me, season of then recent British horror films. Gave up after a about half an hour.
 
Mouldy13 said:
This has convinced me that MH and SC are indeed the same person, the syntax is very, very similiar
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Naughty_Felid said:
I think so too and I think he's just used a proxy to disguise his IP. My reluctance to engage with SC further is that I don't particularly want to reinforce his ideas by discussing it.
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Roland Deschain said:
I thought the same, you couldn't slide a five thou feeler gauge between them regardless of IP routing...
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First of all, I will remind you - again - that if you have suspicions about someone's identity then to voice them privately. However in this case there are reasonable grounds to discuss it, as so much is dependent upon it regarding the veracity of testimony.

So - I will say this about MH: their IP was, until very recently, static and based in Florida. Taking that into account, I contacted them directly, and they absolutely assured me that they were not a sock puppet - which I took on trust. Their spellings were American, etc. Until very recently, when, as you say, it's suddenly lapsed back and the IP has moved to New York.

Then we get this from them, allegedly dictated by SC:
I miss Carmilla K. She was beginning to attain some of the attributes of Janet. Janet was taken from me once before. I cant begin to tell you how that still hurts, how I am affected, still. I provide a link to a musical track which I should like played in Carmillas memory. The powers that be, injected her with the fatal serum. Now she stands alone .At the Gates of Delirium..
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As CarmillaK was him in the first place, and now it does appear that despite an early burst of authenticity that MH is indeed him too - mea culpa, even I can be too trusting sometimes - then I feel it's time that Musichunch left the building. That established, I will hive off all of this recent stuff and add it to the "other" Enfield thread. From here on in, I will be watching this thread very closely, and any more sudden revelations about Enfield (or similar stuff) will be placed under a great deal of scrutiny. If that cements in certain minds (geddit?) my position as an MI-spook, then frankly I don't care.

Roland and others have made one particularly good point:
Roland Deschain said:
..I don't think I should comment further as ECT while highly and permanently effective in many cases has a significant relapse rate. If SC falls within that band nothing I could post will aid him. I can only wish them well and urge them to take a step back, enjoy the emerging Spring weather and remember not everything is linked or about you.
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Which I can only echo.
 
I found the following site just minutes ago when I googled this case up.
http://www.varietyportal.com/enfield-poltergeist-6/
Specifically I'm addressing the paragraph under that photo of Janet where she's saying that when that gruff male voice would occur, she would feel like something was standing right behind her when that would happen. Her mouth would be filled with water yet that voice, which came from her throat, would still "talk".

This is a well documented phenomenon that one can find in various exorcism cases.
 
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As for the veracity of this case, there's no question in my mind that it happened as they say it did. Yes, it's true the girls, at some point, started to fake some things but then they confessed to doing that. They were after all children and children like to pull pranks sometimes. In my view, it's important for researchers to not dwell too much on that part of it and instead focus on those phenomena witnessed by those who were there at the time when they occurred.
 
ramonmercado said:
The Conjuring 2 is pretty good. It greatly embellishes the story with an evil skeletal nun and a Crooked Man character. Lots of levitation as well. 7.5/10.
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I liked The Conjuring 2 a lot. Even though it does indeed greatly embellish things...
 
I saw this yesterday and I think it's fair to say that the movie was only inspired by the real story because even though some parts of it were close to the truth, it's still, nevertheless, a rewrite on it and much embellished; I agree. It was an entertaining movie though; worth a watch.
 
Mag-ona said:
As for the veracity of this case, there's no question in my mind that it happened as they say it did. Yes, it's true the girls, at some point, started to fake some things but then they confessed to doing that. They were after all children and children like to pull pranks sometimes. In my view, it's important for researchers to not dwell too much on that part of it and instead focus on those phenomena witnessed by those who were there at the time when they occurred.
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Perhaps, it'd also be a good idea to look at the potential motivations of "those who were there at the time".

Also, it'd be a good idea to stand back and examine the impact this had on what was, and I don't think this is too much up for debate, a very vulnerable family.

This case, was an example of manipulation, coercion, and very inappropriate reinforcement. I've never found a single piece of persuasive evidence cited anywhere, that supports anything other than a very inappropriate and unsupervised intervention into a young girl's imagination, and her troubled family. Personally, I doubt it could happen today.
 
You can't rule"motivations" out and there's a lot of deception going on... all for fame, respect and the almighty dollar. Researchers in the paranormal field are all competing with each other which explains why they are always accusing each other of confabulation. This follows for non-author's who have their own ghost hunting services... or just people who want to give everyone the impression that they are experts in the field. Even when photographic and audio material is available for the experiencer or researcher to back up their claims, anyone who is motivated to debunk any material like that, will attempt to do that, especially if it's the type of material that they themselves have failed to get. So there's a lot of jealousy there too which is really ridiculous but that's just how it is. If they have never had such an experience or at least witnessed it to then report it along with showing photographic evidence to back things up, then they will debunk anyone who has been successful at that.

The only way one can at least consider that someone's anomalous phenomena claim could be true, is if they themselves have had similar experiences. People like that can tell if the experiencer is telling the truth or not in that persons oral or written narrative where they are describing those experiences. This includes whatever photographic and audio material they are showing too. Deceptor's have tell-tale ways in which they describe their so-called experiences. Real experiencer's pick up on that.
 
I definitely agree with the first paragraph. Except in this case, I think Grosse who was the main driving force. Was motivated by something much, much more powerful than cash or status. He was totally unsuitable as a researcher in this instance given his recent terrible loss.

On one hand I feel genuinely sorry for him. But on the other, I think that he should have been more self aware. And mindful of his own motivations, the impact he was having, and the role he was playing in the lives of those children. Especially Janet.

He used them, and allowed himself to be used. Albeit unwittingly. And in doing so helped create an unhealthy and harmful atmosphere for those children. As I say, if it happened today someone would step in. At least I hope they would.

As for the evidence, there isn't any. At least none that would stand up to any scrutiny. Think about it seriously, if anything purported to be proof was used in court in some modern day child protection/family court hearing. They'd be torn apart.

This was a very unsavoury business. But it's still one of, I think the most, fascinating cases from a social perspective.
 
These days, thanks to photoshop and audio tech., no photographic and audio "evidence" can serve as evidence in court. Anything can be tampered with and these day, even undetectably. But this does not mean that people should not attempt to get such physical evidence anyway because, like I said, real experiencers can tell if someones stuff is hoaxed. For the sake of research, any kind of physical material that can be acquired when the event is happening is better than getting nothing at all... or not even trying to get anything for that matter.

So, to be honest with you, I strongly disagree with you on that point.
 
As for The Enfield Poltergeist, going by Guy Lyon Playfair account of it in his book, it's clear to me that the family should have been more persistent in getting the right exorcist in there to get rid of that disruptive "intelligence". But instead they allowed themselves to be inundated with fame and attention seekers who really, when it came down to it, didn't care about that family at all... personal advancement was their only objective.

I agree with you on that one. Very sad.
 
It's been a long time since I've read up on this case and will look over Grosse' material again too.
 
I can't agree that Grosse was motivated by personal advancement. But do agree that Playfair was. If that's what you meant.

I can't see why an exorcist would be needed in this case, as like most if not all similar cases, there's absolutely no evidence of the paranormal.

Similarly, I can't agree that the best person to judge or oversee a situation like this is someone who believes they've experienced a similar event. I think someone totally objective would be better.
 
Only if you could accept the fact that we dwell in a world that is far, far
more than what reaches the eye and that we, ourselves are conduits to it too.

But, you are like some who are out there who have closed themselves off from that
other facet of our universe. Not intentionally, of course but nevertheless
there are reasons why some see and experience it
and others do not.

For the skeptic, all we can ask is that they someday allow
for a more generous and evenhanded approach to the world that we all live in.
One that acknowledges that even if one cannot experience or see it in its entirety (or closer to it), the fact that there are more out there in this world who DO experience it at least at some level, should be a big
indication to them that something on their end is seriously amiss.
 
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Possibly, but to be honest I don't see how that'd affect the way I interpret the evidence in this case. I started off, many years ago, as a believer. As I've said before, this case was one of the things that persuaded me that evidence of the paranormal isn't there.

I remain open minded, and there have been many things on this board that intrigue me. But the Enfield case is a fraud.
 
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