Cave & Rock Art

[Mungoman]

One final thought.

Animals have territory, and some of them have quite large territories that they cyclically visit.

Nearly all of these animals that have these markings on, or next to them are all migratory.

Could these sigils be an indication of when these animals can be expected in this specific area....


https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...7rb5Jo_0h-5bFrq4iXpsrZSNPfooZqsm9TA_gxljVALhw

 

[Bad Bungle]

That main figure has 6 fingers on one hand.

When it comes to Art, everyone's a critic.

 

[Sid]

A teaching aid, perhaps?

Could the marks be a way of keeping a personal count (a recording) of how many that particular individual has caught & killed?

 

[Mungoman]

Could the marks be a way of keeping a personal count (a recording) of how many that particular individual has caught & killed?

Hunters have obligations to the rest of the community before themselves, to the point that everyone would be aware of tallies.

 

[Sid]

Hunters have obligations to the rest of the community before themselves, to the point that everyone would be aware of tallies.

Maybe then 'the hunter' wasn't a community hunter, but a single male keeping a personal score?

 

[Mungoman]

Maybe then 'the hunter' wasn't a community hunter, but a single male keeping a personal score?

This is the Abstract:-

In at least 400 European caves such as Lascaux, Chauvet and Altamira, Upper Palaeolithic Homo sapiens groups drew, painted and engraved non-figurative signs from at least ~42,000 bp and figurative images (notably animals) from at least 37,000 bp. Since their discovery ~150 years ago, the purpose or meaning of European Upper Palaeolithic non-figurative signs has eluded researchers. Despite this, specialists assume that they were notational in some way. Using a database of images spanning the European Upper Palaeolithic, we suggest how three of the most frequently occurring signs—the line <|>, the dot <•>, and the <Y>—functioned as units of communication. We demonstrate that when found in close association with images of animals the line <|> and dot <•> constitute numbers denoting months, and form constituent parts of a local phenological/meteorological calendar beginning in spring and recording time from this point in lunar months. We also demonstrate that the <Y> sign, one of the most frequently occurring signs in Palaeolithic non-figurative art, has the meaning <To Give Birth>. The position of the <Y> within a sequence of marks denotes month of parturition, an ordinal representation of number in contrast to the cardinal representation used in tallies. Our data indicate that the purpose of this system of associating animals with calendar information was to record and convey seasonal behavioural information about specific prey taxa in the geographical regions of concern. We suggest a specific way in which the pairing of numbers with animal subjects constituted a complete unit of meaning—a notational system combined with its subject—that provides us with a specific insight into what one set of notational marks means. It gives us our first specific reading of European Upper Palaeolithic communication, the first known writing in the history of Homo sapiens.

 

[Sid]

I can understand why early man lived in caves ~ for his own protection, and for keeping out of harms way particularly during the night, and the severest of weather, and predatory animals etc. However, I don't really understand why early man wanted, or needed to go so deeply into a totally dark cave and to decide to paint his graphics on those walls, with the chore of also supplying his own light. Surely, the motive to paint figures of animals, and other things during that time on to a caves walls would be to record, and to let it be seen?

 

[Mungoman]

I can understand why early man lived in caves ~ for his own protection, and for keeping out of harms way particularly during the night, and the severest of weather, and predatory animals etc. However, I don't really understand why early man wanted, or needed to go so deeply into a totally dark cave and to decide to paint his graphics on those walls, with the chore of also supplying his own light. Surely, the motive to paint figures of animals, and other things during that time on to a caves walls would be to record, and to let it be seen?

Maybe it was a animist religion thing, and like all religions, there were echelons - One for children, women, men...in other words the laity, and then there were the fellows who wore the funny hats who believed that their Gods spoke to them, and only them.

And the reason for the deep dark caves was so the upper echelon could 'set' a scene that would impress...or terrify the occasional, permitted viewing by the Laity. Think along the lines of the Vatican.

I don't know really - your guess would be as good as mine Sid.

 

[Sid]

Maybe it was a animist religion thing, and like all religions, there were echelons - One for children, women, men...in other words the laity, and then there were the fellows who wore the funny hats who believed that their Gods spoke to them, and only them.

And the reason for the deep dark caves was so the upper echelon could 'set' a scene that would impress...or terrify the occasional, permitted viewing by the Laity. Think along the lines of the Vatican.

I don't know really - your guess would be as good as mine Sid.

An un-educated guess. . . Shamanic journeying?

 

[Mungoman]

An un-educated guess. . . Shamanic journeying?

I'd think so too Sid, but the majority of these caves are in limestone stratas, and limestone releases CO2...I wonder what the average life span was for Shaman.

 

[Sid]

I'd think so too Sid, but the majority of these caves are in limestone stratas, and limestone releases CO2...I wonder what the average life span was for Shaman.

Seems that it's only where pockets of Co2 gets the chance to build-up that the breathing problems occur. . .
https://www.livescience.com/62983-thai-soccer-team-human-survival-caves.html

 

[pandacracker]

I also think it's important to remember that along with the paintings and flickering light (does anyone know what the would have used?)
there's also the acoustic element as well. I've seen documentary about it.

 

[Sid]

I also think it's important to remember that along with the paintings and flickering light (does anyone know what the would have used?)
there's also the acoustic element as well. I've seen documentary about it.

Natural pigments that would be ground down from what they could find (possibly from within the caves themselves in most cases, blown pigment, or fingerpainted onto the surfaces of the caves. Wood charcoal, for outlining or emphasising their 'painted' images, possibly even blood from the very animal that was hunted and killed, or anything at hand in order to create the nearest likeness to what they wanted to portray.
As to the flickering lights it seems it added an atmospheric kind of moving image to their works. https://www.sciencealert.com/scient...hting-to-understand-paleolithic-cave-dwellers

 

[Mungoman]

Seems that it's only where pockets of Co2 gets the chance to build-up that the breathing problems occur. . .
https://www.livescience.com/62983-thai-soccer-team-human-survival-caves.html

We would still be aware of our team mates lips whenever we went caving - no matter what.

 

[Mungoman]

Natural pigments that would be ground down from what they could find (possibly from within the caves themselves in most cases, blown pigment, or fingerpainted onto the surfaces of the caves. Wood charcoal, for outlining or emphasising their 'painted' images, possibly even blood from the very animal that was hunted and killed, or anything at hand in order to create the nearest likeness to what they wanted to portray.

There was great trade with oxide ochres and pipe clay, along with the genera of orchids used to 'fix' the colours, in Australian Cultures - the significance being mainly due to where the isolated deposits were, the Dreaming involved with the area, and who (Nation) were seeking it.

The ochre, in the majority of cases, was the earthly rendition of the blood of Ancesteral Heroes, so there were proviso's on who could use it, and even who could handle it. We have Trade Paths here that extended from Brisbane (Queensland), to the Lake Mungo complex....a distance of over 1600 kilometres (1000 miles).

It was more than merely painting a picture.

 

[Sid]

There was great trade with oxide ochres and pipe clay, along with the genera of orchids used to 'fix' the colours, in Australian Cultures - the significance being mainly due to where the isolated deposits were, the Dreaming involved with the area, and who (Nation) were seeking it.

The ochre, in the majority of cases, was the earthly rendition of the blood of Ancesteral Heroes, so there were proviso's on who could use it, and even who could handle it. We have Trade Paths here that extended from Brisbane (Queensland), to the Lake Mungo complex....a distance of over 1600 kilometres (1000 miles).

It was more than merely painting a picture.

Suggests that maybe it was only the elders, or the 'dreamers(shamans?)' who undertook these tasks?

 

[maximus otter]

Newly-dated cave art tells a dark story in Borneo's history

The Gua Sireh Cave on the island of Borneo in the Malaysian state of Sarawak is known for hundreds of charcoal drawings lining the walls of its main chambers. Now, a team of researchers from Australia’s Griffith University, the Sarawak Museum Department, and the Bidayuh people have officially dated some of the drawings in the cave which tell a sad and true story.

The team dates the drawings to between 1670 to 1830 AD, which corresponds with a time of increasing conflict in the region.

The Bidayuh recall Gua Sireh’s use as a refuge during territorial violence in the early 1800s when a very harsh Malay Chief had demanded they hand over their children,” Mohammad Sherman Sauffi William, a Bidayuh descendent, Sarawak Museum curator, and co-author of the study said. “They refused and retreated to Gua Sireh, where they initially held off a force of 300 armed men trying to enter the cave from the valley about 60 meters [196 feet] below.

After two Bidayuh were shot and seven were taken as prisoners and/or enslaved, most of the tribe escaped through a passageway at the back of the largest entrance chamber to the cave.

“The figures were drawn holding distinctive weapons such as a Pandat which was used exclusively for fighting or protection, as well two short-bladed Parang Ilang, the main weapons used during warfare that marked the first decades of white rule in Borneo.”

https://www.popsci.com/science/borneo-malaysia-cave-art/

maximus otter

 

[ramonmercado]

Ancient Iberian Cave Art.

Archaeologists have discovered a major paleolithic cave art site, arguably the most important found on the Eastern Iberian Coast in Europe.

More than 100 ancient paintings and engravings, thought to be at least 24,000 years old, have been found in a 500 meter-long cave in "Cova Dones" or "Cueva Dones"—a site located in Millares near Valencia in Spain.

The cave site is well-known by locals and often visited by hikers and explorers, but the existence of paleolithic paintings was unnoticed until researchers from the universities of Zaragoza and Alicante (Spain), and affiliated to Archaeology at the University of Southampton (U.K.), made the exciting discovery in June 2021.

Findings of a study into the cave art, which highlight its true significance, are now published in the journal Antiquity.

Dr. Aitor Ruiz-Redondo, Senior Lecturer of Prehistory at the University of Zaragoza (Spain) and research affiliate at the University of Southampton (U.K.) comments, "When we saw the first painted auroch [extinct wild bull], we immediately acknowledged it was important. Although Spain is the country with largest number of Paleolithic cave art sites, most of them are concentrated in northern Spain. Eastern Iberia is an area where few of these sites have been documented so far.

"However, the actual 'shock' of realizing its significance came long after the first discovery. Once we began the proper systematic survey we realized we were facing a major cave art site, like the ones that can be found elsewhere in Cantabrian Spain, southern France or Andalusia, but that totally lack in this territory."

Two painted hinds heads. Credit: Ruiz-Redondo/Barciela/Martorell

The research team of Dr. Ruiz-Redondo, Dr. Virginia Barciela-González, Senior Lecturer of Prehistory at the University of Alicante (Spain) and Dr. Ximo Martorell-Briz, research affiliate at the University of Alicante (Spain), have painstakingly documented more than one hundred motifs, or designs, at Cova Dones so far.

The large number of motifs and the variety of techniques involved in their creation make the cave the most important Paleolithic cave art site on the eastern Mediterranean coast of the Iberian Peninsula. In fact, it is probably the Paleolithic cave with the greatest number of motifs discovered in Europe since Atxurra (Bizkaia), in 2015.

https://phys.org/news/2023-09-archaeologists-reveal-largest-paleolithic-cave.html

 

[Mungoman]

Ancient Iberian Cave Art.

Archaeologists have discovered a major paleolithic cave art site, arguably the most important found on the Eastern Iberian Coast in Europe.

More than 100 ancient paintings and engravings, thought to be at least 24,000 years old, have been found in a 500 meter-long cave in "Cova Dones" or "Cueva Dones"—a site located in Millares near Valencia in Spain.

The cave site is well-known by locals and often visited by hikers and explorers, but the existence of paleolithic paintings was unnoticed until researchers from the universities of Zaragoza and Alicante (Spain), and affiliated to Archaeology at the University of Southampton (U.K.), made the exciting discovery in June 2021.

Findings of a study into the cave art, which highlight its true significance, are now published in the journal Antiquity.

Dr. Aitor Ruiz-Redondo, Senior Lecturer of Prehistory at the University of Zaragoza (Spain) and research affiliate at the University of Southampton (U.K.) comments, "When we saw the first painted auroch [extinct wild bull], we immediately acknowledged it was important. Although Spain is the country with largest number of Paleolithic cave art sites, most of them are concentrated in northern Spain. Eastern Iberia is an area where few of these sites have been documented so far.

"However, the actual 'shock' of realizing its significance came long after the first discovery. Once we began the proper systematic survey we realized we were facing a major cave art site, like the ones that can be found elsewhere in Cantabrian Spain, southern France or Andalusia, but that totally lack in this territory."

Two painted hinds heads. Credit: Ruiz-Redondo/Barciela/Martorell

The research team of Dr. Ruiz-Redondo, Dr. Virginia Barciela-González, Senior Lecturer of Prehistory at the University of Alicante (Spain) and Dr. Ximo Martorell-Briz, research affiliate at the University of Alicante (Spain), have painstakingly documented more than one hundred motifs, or designs, at Cova Dones so far.

The large number of motifs and the variety of techniques involved in their creation make the cave the most important Paleolithic cave art site on the eastern Mediterranean coast of the Iberian Peninsula. In fact, it is probably the Paleolithic cave with the greatest number of motifs discovered in Europe since Atxurra (Bizkaia), in 2015.

https://phys.org/news/2023-09-archaeologists-reveal-largest-paleolithic-cave.html

Maybe 'P' Horses, rather than deer?

 

[Sid]

Maybe 'P' Horses, rather than deer?

View attachment 69582

Or 'Aurochs?

 

[ramonmercado]

Impressive carvings.

The animal footprint carvings you can find in the Doro Nawas Mountains of western Namibia are quite something: the artists have captured the tracks so accurately, they can reveal plenty of useful information about the animals they represent.

A team from the Heinrich Barth Institute and the University of Erlangen-Nuremberg in Germany, and the Nyae Nyae Conservancy in Namibia, worked with Indigenous tracking experts from the Kalahari region to look at a total of 513 carvings.

For more than 90 percent of them, Indigenous experts could identify the species, sex, age group, and even which leg the carving was from. It's like a wildlife compendium, written in rock.

Footprints categorized by the researchers. (Lenssen-Erz et al., PLOS ONE, 2023)

"The study represents further confirmation that Indigenous knowledge, with its profound insights into a range of particular fields, has the capacity to considerably advance archaeological research," write the researchers in their published paper.

Animal and human footprints often feature in prehistoric cave art – there are hundreds of them in this particular collection – but what's not clear is why the artists of ancient times wanted to get these tracks on the record.

One idea is that they could have been used as a teaching aid. However, the locations of some of the engravings, the height at which they're placed, and the general darkness of the caves mean they wouldn't make ideal classrooms. The researchers couldn't come up with a suitable hypothesis that completely made sense for these rock carvings.

https://www.sciencealert.com/prehis...animals-sex-age-and-species-can-be-determined

 

[ramonmercado]

They only have a hunch about who created the camel carvings.

Life-size carvings of camels have been found in the Saudi Arabian desert, but archaeologists aren't sure who created them and when.

The mysterious camel carvings in the Saudi Arabian desert were likely created thousands of years ago. Virtual white lines are drawn over the carvings to enhance them for viewers. (Image credit: Maria Guagnin, et al)

Archaeologists have documented a cluster of carvings depicting camels on a rock outcropping near the southern edge of Saudi Arabia's Nafud desert.

The monumental artwork portrays a dozen life-size wild camels, a now-extinct species that once roamed this swath of the Arabian Peninsula desert thousands of years ago but has never received a scientific name, according to a study published in the December issue of the journal Archaeological Research in Asia.

While the site, named Sahout, had been recognized by other archaeologists for some time, this is the first time someone noticed the camel carvings on the outcropping.

"We learned about the site from another paper — but the panel was difficult to find because its location wasn't precise, and this isn't an easy landscape [to navigate]," study lead author Maria Guagnin, a postdoctoral researcher at the Max Planck Institute of Geoanthropology in Germany, told Live Science.

Finding the outcropping in the sand dunes wasn't the only challenge. Because the carvings have newer etchings overlapping the camels, there's an added layer of mystery surrounding which culture created the artwork and when.

"The outcroppings contain a dense cluster of rock art from many different periods," Guagnin said. "You can see that the carvings were done in various phases and are stylistically different."

It also doesn't help that most of the carvings were made inside crevices, making them difficult to access and radiocarbon date. However, radiocarbon dating of two trenches and two hearths nearby indicate that the Sahout site was repeatedly occupied between the Pleistocene (2.6 million to 11,700 years ago) and the Middle Holocene (7,000 to 5,000 years ago), according to the study.

https://www.livescience.com/archaeo...l-carvings-discovered-in-saudi-arabian-desert

 

[ramonmercado]

Rock carvings revealed due to drought.

A drop in water levels of the Amazon has revealed rock carvings which had been mostly submerged since they were carved more than a thousand years ago.

A severe drought means that the human faces carved into rocks on the shore can now be easily spotted.
Some had been sighted during a previous drought but archaeologists say they have been able to locate a greater variety of the carvings this time.

The discovery was made in the city of Manaus, in northern Brazil.

Some of the faces are rectangular in shape while others are oval

A severe drought means the faces can be spotted more easily

They are located on a stretch of shore known as Ponta das Lajes, near where the Rio Negro and the Solimões river flow into the Amazon.
Archaeologist Jaime Oliveira told local media that they were carved by people who lived in the area in pre-Columbian times.

"This region is a pre-colonial site which has evidence of occupation dating back some 1,000 to 2,000 years," he said. "What we're seeing here are representations of anthropomorphic figures."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-67204409

 

[Sid]

Rock carvings revealed due to drought.

A drop in water levels of the Amazon has revealed rock carvings which had been mostly submerged since they were carved more than a thousand years ago.

A severe drought means that the human faces carved into rocks on the shore can now be easily spotted.
Some had been sighted during a previous drought but archaeologists say they have been able to locate a greater variety of the carvings this time.

The discovery was made in the city of Manaus, in northern Brazil.


Some of the faces are rectangular in shape while others are oval

A severe drought means the faces can be spotted more easily

They are located on a stretch of shore known as Ponta das Lajes, near where the Rio Negro and the Solimões river flow into the Amazon.
Archaeologist Jaime Oliveira told local media that they were carved by people who lived in the area in pre-Columbian times.

"This region is a pre-colonial site which has evidence of occupation dating back some 1,000 to 2,000 years," he said. "What we're seeing here are representations of anthropomorphic figures."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-67204409

This one (above) seems to look more animal-like with ears on the top of it's head, possibly displaying that it has a curly tail? I would guess that this is a depiction of a cat of some kind.

 

[ramonmercado]

This one (above) seems to look more animal-like with ears on the top of it's head, possibly displaying that it has a curly tail? I would guess that this is a depiction of a cat of some kind.

Or a demon emerging from a snail shell.

 

[Mungoman]

They are two different techniques, so I'm assuming (I know) the pecked glyph (face) is older, with the spiral coming later, indicating that drought is not uncommon to the Amazonian area.

 

[maximus otter]

Human faces sculpted into stone up to 2,000 years ago have appeared on a rocky outcropping along the Amazon river after the water levels dropped to record lows.

The new carvings were revealed during the region’s worst drought in more than a century.

Some rock engravings had been discovered before, but now there is a greater variety that will help researchers establish their origins, archaeologist Jaime de Santana Oliveira said.

“The engravings are prehistoric, or precolonial. We cannot date them exactly, but based on evidence of human occupation of the area, we believe they are about 1,000 to 2,000 years old,” Mr Oliveira said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-rock-carvings-on-amazon-river-after-drought/

maximus otter

 

[Sid]

They are two different techniques, so I'm assuming (I know) the pecked glyph (face) is older, with the spiral coming later, indicating that drought is not uncommon to the Amazonian area.

Yes 'Mungoman,' I see what you mean.
Looking at the detail, the 'catlike' face has been simply been chipped away, probably using a harder stone tool giving the outline of the cat by straight forward punching it at the surface.
Whereas the 'tail,' or whirl is formed by cutting (chasing) a groove into the rock surface.

 

[Sid]

Human faces sculpted into stone up to 2,000 years ago have appeared on a rocky outcropping along the Amazon river after the water levels dropped to record lows.

The new carvings were revealed during the region’s worst drought in more than a century.

Some rock engravings had been discovered before, but now there is a greater variety that will help researchers establish their origins, archaeologist Jaime de Santana Oliveira said.

“The engravings are prehistoric, or precolonial. We cannot date them exactly, but based on evidence of human occupation of the area, we believe they are about 1,000 to 2,000 years old,” Mr Oliveira said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-rock-carvings-on-amazon-river-after-drought/

maximus otter

I'm wondering if the depictions are not meant to be the faces of the Amazonian people - rather depictions of Amazonian face masks that they might have worn in troubled times (i.e. tribal fighting)?

 

[Kondoru]

If these are under running water why havent they eroded away?