9/11: The September 11th Attacks

dejanmikic

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that's so strange.... I have been following the case but I have not heard of this... is this a common knowledge and around the forum?
 

Ringo

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I caught most of an amazing documentary about 9/11 and Air Force One recently. It was incredible. I think it gave an honest indication of how things actually work in an emergency. It was chaos. And that's why I don't think the US government is capabe of a complex plot or conspiracy. I think their plans look fine on paper and then it all goes wrong when it goes down for real.

The President was in Florida when the first plane struck. Secret Service bustled the President, his staff and press core into Air Force One. There was a panic at the airport with Secret Service thinking someone was going to hit the plane with a Stinger missile from the end of the runway so the pilot did an about turn on the runway and did an emergency take-off in the opposite direction. They headed for Washington but then received a report that Air Force One was a possible target. So the headed out over the Gulf of Mexico and flew around in circles. They had no connections with the ground, had no idea of what was going on (was there a full scale attack going on or not, invasion, bombs?) and had no protective cover. Mobile phones weren't working properly, they got no incoming calls with info and the only news they got was from tuning into any local TV channels they could pick up. Basically, they knew less about what was going on that you or I did sitting watching it all live on TV.

Secret Service suspected an attacker may be onboard so armed guards were posted to protect the stairs up to the cockpit and at the midpoint of the plane. The press were locked down and the plane rescanned for weapons. There was panic onboard as they suspected an attack but had no idea from where it could come.

They called for Military escorts numerous times but they never arrived - the bases confused each other. I think one base scrambled jets but recalled them thinkning the other had already sent some. But they hadn't. So the leader of the free world, as the towers were falling, was cut off from the rest of the world, locked away in his own quarters, didn't know what was happening, no-one was communicating or co-ordinating any response and was flying at 30,000 feet somewhere over the Gulf of Mexico without protection.

The pilot was worried about attack from Ground-to-Air missiles so he pushed Air Force One up from 30,000 feet to fly at 45,000. The idea being that if anything came upwards to that height then it must be a threat. But this hampered communications even more and he had to come back down.

Eventually two unidentified blips were picked up by their onboard radar and they were warned by Houston that two planes were incoming. They had no idea who it was. The pilot, Secret Service and the President just looked out of the windows and waited to be blown out of the sky. The interviews on the documentary were so interesting (and harrowing). Bush was interviewed too and you could tell that he had been scared that day. They really thought that they were about to die. But it turned out to be two fighter escorts from a base in Houston and the imminent danger was over.
 

Vardoger

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In light of my earlier posts about the dancing Israelis...
----------
The Dancing Israelis: FBI Docs Shed Light on Apparent Mossad Foreknowledge of 9/11 Attacks

As another 9/11 anniversary comes and goes, many questions surrounding the events remain unanswered. MintPress brings you a freshly updated article, originally published in May, 2019 that seeks answers to some of those questions.

by Whitney Webb

September 10th, 2019
By Whitney Webb Whitney Webb @_whitneywebb


396 Comments
NEW YORK — For nearly two decades, one of the most overlooked and little known arrests made in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks was that of the so-called “High Fivers,” or the “Dancing Israelis.” However, new information released by the FBI on May 7 has brought fresh scrutiny to the possibility that the “Dancing Israelis,” at least two of whom were known Mossad operatives, had prior knowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center.
Shortly after 8:46 a.m. on the day of the attacks, just minutes after the first plane struck the World Trade Center, five men — later revealed to be Israeli nationals — had positioned themselves in the parking lot of the Doric Apartment Complex in Union City, New Jersey, where they were seen taking pictures and filming the attacks while also celebrating the destruction of the towers and “high fiving” each other. At least one eyewitness interviewed by the FBI had seen the Israelis’ van in the parking lot as early as 8:00 a.m. that day, more than 40 minutes prior to the attack. The story received coverage in U.S. mainstream media at the time but has since been largely forgotten.
The men — Sivan Kurzberg, Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Yaron Shimuel and Omar Marmari — were subsequently apprehended by law enforcement and claimed to be Israeli tourists on a “working holiday” in the United States where they were employed by a moving company, Urban Moving Systems. Upon his arrest, Sivan Kurzberg told the arresting officer, “We are Israeli; we are not your problem. Your problems are our problems, The Palestinians are the problem.”
For years, the official story has been that these individuals, while they had engaged in “immature” behavior by celebrating and being “visibly happy” in their documenting of the attacks, had no prior knowledge of the attack. However, newly released FBI copies of the photos taken by the five Israelis strongly suggest that these individuals had prior knowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center. The copies of the photos were obtained via a FOIA request made by a private citizen.

A high-quality photo, top, shows the area the dancing Israelis were staged. Credit | Panamza

According to a former high-ranking American intelligence official who spoke to the Jewish Daily Forward in 2002, the FBI concluded in its investigation that the five Israelis arrested “were conducting a Mossad surveillance mission and that their employer, Urban Moving Systems of Weehawken, NJ, served as a front.” At least two of the men arrested were determined to have direct links to the Mossad after their names appeared in a CIA-FBI database of foreign intelligence operatives. According to one of their lawyers, one of the men, Paul Kurzberg, had previously worked for the Mossad in another country prior to arriving in the United States. Another of those arrested, Oded Ellner, subsequently stated on Israeli TV that the five Israelis had been in New York at the time “to document the event,” meaning the attack on the World Trade Center.
The FOIA release of the photos is notable because responses to prior FOIA requests to the Department of Justice, which oversees the FBI, had previously claimed that all of the photos taken by the Israeli nationals had been destroyed in January 2014. The photos themselves are heavily redacted, making it impossible to see the Israelis’ facial expressions. However, previously declassified yet heavily redacted FBI reports state that the Israelis are “visibly happy” in nearly every photo, even when the burning towers are in the background. The photos released are also not original copies and instead appear to be photocopies of photocopies of the original pictures. In addition, of the original 76 pictures developed by authorities from the camera in the Israelis’ possession, only 14 were released.

Even more information can be found on https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-light-on-apparent-mossad-foreknowledge-of-9-11-attacks/258581/
 

Kingsize Wombat

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Those dancing Israelis in New Jersey has always been mystery. Got to suspect they were Mossad agents who has known about the hijacking plans for a time already, but did not inform the US government, or the Mossad has brainwashed arabs to do the attack.

I love it. Fox News accidentally uncovers something - and immediately drops it again. :clap:
 

AgProv

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Strange videos about 9/11. I'm really not sure about whether to start a new thread with this one.

but this is strange, poigniant, off-the-wall, espouses no conspiracy theory, and is a uniquely original take on the day. this is how America started the day. The everyday, the banal, the normal, that which would have passed without comment and been forgotten as ephemeral. Just before the world changed. The video is a seties of excerpts from breakfast TV shows, from the last hour or so before the towers were hit. It has an eerie feel to it (probably hindsight) and there is the inevitable momet where a presenter has a Michael Fish and remarks on how quiet a day it is for news and how nothing much is happening just now...

 

blessmycottonsocks

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In light of my earlier posts about the dancing Israelis...
----------
The Dancing Israelis: FBI Docs Shed Light on Apparent Mossad Foreknowledge of 9/11 Attacks

As another 9/11 anniversary comes and goes, many questions surrounding the events remain unanswered. MintPress brings you a freshly updated article, originally published in May, 2019 that seeks answers to some of those questions.

by Whitney Webb

September 10th, 2019
By Whitney Webb Whitney Webb @_whitneywebb


396 Comments
NEW YORK — For nearly two decades, one of the most overlooked and little known arrests made in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks was that of the so-called “High Fivers,” or the “Dancing Israelis.” However, new information released by the FBI on May 7 has brought fresh scrutiny to the possibility that the “Dancing Israelis,” at least two of whom were known Mossad operatives, had prior knowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center.
Shortly after 8:46 a.m. on the day of the attacks, just minutes after the first plane struck the World Trade Center, five men — later revealed to be Israeli nationals — had positioned themselves in the parking lot of the Doric Apartment Complex in Union City, New Jersey, where they were seen taking pictures and filming the attacks while also celebrating the destruction of the towers and “high fiving” each other. At least one eyewitness interviewed by the FBI had seen the Israelis’ van in the parking lot as early as 8:00 a.m. that day, more than 40 minutes prior to the attack. The story received coverage in U.S. mainstream media at the time but has since been largely forgotten.
The men — Sivan Kurzberg, Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Yaron Shimuel and Omar Marmari — were subsequently apprehended by law enforcement and claimed to be Israeli tourists on a “working holiday” in the United States where they were employed by a moving company, Urban Moving Systems. Upon his arrest, Sivan Kurzberg told the arresting officer, “We are Israeli; we are not your problem. Your problems are our problems, The Palestinians are the problem.”
For years, the official story has been that these individuals, while they had engaged in “immature” behavior by celebrating and being “visibly happy” in their documenting of the attacks, had no prior knowledge of the attack. However, newly released FBI copies of the photos taken by the five Israelis strongly suggest that these individuals had prior knowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center. The copies of the photos were obtained via a FOIA request made by a private citizen.

A high-quality photo, top, shows the area the dancing Israelis were staged. Credit | Panamza

According to a former high-ranking American intelligence official who spoke to the Jewish Daily Forward in 2002, the FBI concluded in its investigation that the five Israelis arrested “were conducting a Mossad surveillance mission and that their employer, Urban Moving Systems of Weehawken, NJ, served as a front.” At least two of the men arrested were determined to have direct links to the Mossad after their names appeared in a CIA-FBI database of foreign intelligence operatives. According to one of their lawyers, one of the men, Paul Kurzberg, had previously worked for the Mossad in another country prior to arriving in the United States. Another of those arrested, Oded Ellner, subsequently stated on Israeli TV that the five Israelis had been in New York at the time “to document the event,” meaning the attack on the World Trade Center.
The FOIA release of the photos is notable because responses to prior FOIA requests to the Department of Justice, which oversees the FBI, had previously claimed that all of the photos taken by the Israeli nationals had been destroyed in January 2014. The photos themselves are heavily redacted, making it impossible to see the Israelis’ facial expressions. However, previously declassified yet heavily redacted FBI reports state that the Israelis are “visibly happy” in nearly every photo, even when the burning towers are in the background. The photos released are also not original copies and instead appear to be photocopies of photocopies of the original pictures. In addition, of the original 76 pictures developed by authorities from the camera in the Israelis’ possession, only 14 were released.

Even more information can be found on https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-light-on-apparent-mossad-foreknowledge-of-9-11-attacks/258581/
Rather dodgy source there. The founder of Mintpressnews, Mnar Muhawesh, is a supporter of Syrian dictator Assad and allegedly received sponsorship money from him.

Following the arrest and interrogation of the Israelis, the FBI concluded that there was no foreknowledge of the attacks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theories#Israel

What is likely though is that the Israelis were undercover Mossad agents, who were conducting surveillance of Islamic terrorist cells in New York at the time. They clearly thought they had hit the jackpot to witness such a significant incident. They were subsequently deported, which is the usual action for undercover agents when their cover has been blown.
 

AgProv

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There has never been a satisfactory explanation as to why building 7 collapsed.

It wasn't hit by anything; except, perhaps, a few bits coming of the other buildings.

In the contemporary footage of the event it is clear that hardly any smoke was coming from building 7. If you compare it with other tower block fires that billow huge clouds of smoke, it seems odd.

one has to wonder why they couldn't simply have gone into building 7 and extinguished whatever fire was burning right at the beginning.

Swifty is right, the hole in the Pentagon wall didn't match what was supposed to have happened. Particularly when you consider the spacing of the engines and the fact that the wings would have been almost full of fuel. No raging fire.

Here is a crumb for the conspiracy bods. Maybe the plane that was brought down before it arrived was supposed to hit building 7. But didn't get that far.

INT21
Both the towers collapsed in a straight-downwards sort of way. That amount of weight dropping into a relatively small area of land. This must have been a localised earth tremor - did anything pick it up as anything registering on the richter scale? Building Seven might have been triggered by earth movement,, harmonics, and resonance? Although - argument against - why was this the only one?
 

EnolaGaia

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Both the towers collapsed in a straight-downwards sort of way. That amount of weight dropping into a relatively small area of land. This must have been a localised earth tremor - did anything pick it up as anything registering on the richter scale? ...
The Richter Scale is specifically designed to measure seismic disturbances from below (ground upward), so technically it doesn't apply directly to seismic disturbances caused by impact from above. Having said that ...

The calculated Richter equivalents for the airliners' initial impacts into the WTC towers were 0.7 and 0.9.

The Richter equivalents for the collapses of the twin towers were 2.1 and 2.3 (in sequential order of collapse).

For more details, etc., see:

The Seismology of 9/11
https://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/news-events/seismology-911
 

tuco

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I have a whacky personal theory about why the WTC came down so perfectly in its own foot print, to me it would make sense when building mega story skyscrapers to build in demolition charges that could drop them straight down in the event of serious damage that would over wise have them fall at an angle taking out several blocks of buildings, now if this was true it could not be admitted for fear of terrorists using them. Maybe the charges in building 7 got detonated by accident ? As I said whacky and out there but no less than some others.
 

EnolaGaia

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I have a whacky personal theory about why the WTC came down so perfectly in its own foot print, to me it would make sense when building mega story skyscrapers to build in demolition charges that could drop them straight down in the event of serious damage that would over wise have them fall at an angle taking out several blocks of buildings, now if this was true it could not be admitted for fear of terrorists using them. Maybe the charges in building 7 got detonated by accident ? As I said whacky and out there but no less than some others.
Both these issues have been discussed at length in this and other threads.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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I have a whacky personal theory about why the WTC came down so perfectly in its own foot print, to me it would make sense when building mega story skyscrapers to build in demolition charges that could drop them straight down in the event of serious damage that would over wise have them fall at an angle taking out several blocks of buildings, now if this was true it could not be admitted for fear of terrorists using them. Maybe the charges in building 7 got detonated by accident ? As I said whacky and out there but no less than some others.
Not all that wacky! I've always thought that the way the building collapses is pretty much identical to the way a demolished-on-purpose building collapses.

But that it might have been accidental rather than deliberate... interesting. I like your thinking.
 

tastyintestines

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Yes really. We've been going over this for 18 years {unnecessarily rude addendum deleted ... }
 
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Ringo

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Not really, it was the fire that did for the towers. Grenfell burnt for a lot longer. But was built of different material.
Well I suppose the Grenfell Tower fire was on the outside of the building fuelled by the cladding. The 9/11 fires were on the inside of the towers, aviation fuel and burning office materials spread over several floors, down elevator shafts and into the very heart of the buildings already weakened by impacts from a 737.
 

MorningAngel

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Well I suppose the Grenfell Tower fire was on the outside of the building fuelled by the cladding. The 9/11 fires were on the inside of the towers, aviation fuel and burning office materials spread over several floors, down elevator shafts and into the very heart of the buildings already weakened by impacts from a 737.
A lot of Grenfell ended up on the inside too and burnt for a very long time.

Quote from the article I linked to. ‘The apartment block was built in the early 1970s at a time when strict new building regulations had come into effect to ensure high rises would not fall down in the event of a blast or major fire. The regulations were introduced following a deadly gas explosion at the Ronan Point high-rise in East London. It marks the only time a block of flats in London has collapsed.
Emeritus professor of structural engineering at Newcastle University, Dr John Knapton, who advised insurers Lloyds of London in the wake of the Twin Towers terrorist attack, said:
“I don’t think this building will collapse because in 1968, a block of flats at Ronan Point in East London partly collapsed as a result of a gas explosion in a kitchen,” The Telegraph reported.

“As a result of that, the design of tower blocks in the UK changed from about 1971 onwards.” From then on, the design had to allow for an explosion or a fire to remove part of the supporting structure and for the building to remain standing.’
 

Ringo

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A lot of Grenfell ended up on the inside too and burnt for a very long time.

Quote from the article I linked to. ‘The apartment block was built in the early 1970s at a time when strict new building regulations had come into effect to ensure high rises would not fall down in the event of a blast or major fire. The regulations were introduced following a deadly gas explosion at the Ronan Point high-rise in East London. It marks the only time a block of flats in London has collapsed.
Emeritus professor of structural engineering at Newcastle University, Dr John Knapton, who advised insurers Lloyds of London in the wake of the Twin Towers terrorist attack, said:
“I don’t think this building will collapse because in 1968, a block of flats at Ronan Point in East London partly collapsed as a result of a gas explosion in a kitchen,” The Telegraph reported.

“As a result of that, the design of tower blocks in the UK changed from about 1971 onwards.” From then on, the design had to allow for an explosion or a fire to remove part of the supporting structure and for the building to remain standing.’
Wasn't that why the Fire Brigade said residents should stay in their own homes as each flat was its own fire cell?

The floors of the WTC towers were all open plan.
 

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Wasn't that why the Fire Brigade said residents should stay in their own homes as each flat was its own fire cell?

The floors of the WTC towers were all open plan.
Probably but the fire didn’t act as it was supposed to.

There would be more open plan in office. I do wonder if the towers had had the same structure (concrete) as Grenfell if it would have faired better. But then just concrete might not have been feasible in such a tall building.
 

EnolaGaia

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... There would be more open plan in office. I do wonder if the towers had had the same structure (concrete) as Grenfell if it would have faired better. ...
No. These two buildings were constructed using very different techniques or approaches. The conventional rigid internal architecture of the Grenfell Tower simply can't be scaled up to build something the height of the former WTC towers.
 

Lizard King

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I think one of the main problems with the twin towers was the fireproofing. The girders that formed the structure were not completely fire proofed and there was weak points which had not been fire proofed.
 

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FBI accidental release brings scrutiny to bear on Saudis once again.

WASHINGTON — The FBI inadvertently revealed one of the U.S. government’s most sensitive secrets about the Sept. 11 terror attacks: the identity of a mysterious Saudi Embassy official in Washington who agents suspected had directed crucial support to two of the al-Qaida hijackers.
The disclosure came in a new declaration filed in federal court by a senior FBI official in response to a lawsuit brought by families of 9/11 victims that accuses the Saudi government of complicity in the terrorist attacks.

The declaration was filed last month but unsealed late last week. According to a spokesman for the 9/11 victims’ families, it represents a major breakthrough in the long-running case, providing for the first time an apparent confirmation that FBI agents investigating the attacks believed they had uncovered a link between the hijackers and the Saudi Embassy in Washington.

It’s unclear just how strong the evidence is against the former Saudi Embassy official — it’s been a subject of sharp dispute within the FBI for years. But the disclosure, which a senior U.S. government official confirmed was made in error, seems likely to revive questions about potential Saudi links to the 9/11 plot.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fbi-...ebb2dbdc5b6ae915a8bba22?ncid=newsltushpmgnews
 

EnolaGaia

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There's a Ukrainian site (ua-cam.com) which lists a 9/11 video with the same ID as the YouTube video (3wycDqNI2HA).
 
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