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Aleister Crowley

gordonrutter said:
Whatever Crowley was he was a great self publicist. Yes he claimed to have give inspiration for the V for Victory sign, but this has only ever been said by Crowley himself or others repeating him, as far as I am aware there is no independent verification of this.

And Crowley as the most evil person in the world - yes he loved that as that is how he described himself. The Beast.
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I don't have any of his magic books , but I do have his whole story collection. I also have Dark Horse Comics Alistair And Adolf Graphic Novel :) Also i don't think he was as bad as he made out. It was in those times seen as an aboration of the Church. But he was just different didnt follow the crowd.
 
Aurora Newman said:
I don't have any of his magic books , but I do have his whole story collection. I also have Dark Horse Comics Alistair And Adolf Graphic Novel :) Also i don't think he was as bad as he made out. It was in those times seen as an aboration of the Church. But he was just different didnt follow the crowd.
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I think he was just into everything for his own sake and would have done whatever to have been able to go around doing whatever he wanted. Which is pretty much what he did!
 
"The goal of religion the method of science". Crowley's methods remind one of left-hand path Tantra. Crowley's ego may not have managed the transformation properly :cool:
 
Aurora Newman said:
I don't have any of his magic books , but I do have his whole story collection. I also have Dark Horse Comics Alistair And Adolf Graphic Novel :) Also i don't think he was as bad as he made out. It was in those times seen as an aboration of the Church. But he was just different didnt follow the crowd.
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In terms of whether he was "evil" - no, not like Hitler or someone like that who was genuinely a horrific human being. But Crowley was a really terrible father and I can see why people think him "wicked" since he treated people badly.
I still greatly respect and appreciate his writings and magickal ideas though.
 
I reckon he just wanted to be famous. In the absence of YouTube, he had to do it through writings and 'claimings'.

If he were still alive he'd probably be going on 'I'm a Celebrity' and claiming that he could 'influence' the other contestants. Would do wonders for the book sales.
 
^ God that's GREAT!! :D
This is what really happened when he was possessed by Choronzon...:evil:
 
God, if people thought Crowley was pure evil before that'll prove it.
 
Crowley wasn't evil. Let alone pure evil.

The fact you think he was would have pleased him greatly!

He was...unusual. Possessed with a selfish lust for himself. An explorer of within and without. A very different type of person.

He fostered and encouraged tawdry tales of his "evilness". Teasing others that he was the devil incarnate was a childish and silly pursuit he engaged in since childhood and never got bored of. He adored confusing, tricking, misdirecting, spreading disinformation about himself and the world, and the worlds around us. His goal was manipulation and he was very, very good at it. Manipulating others for his own goals.

Fascinating man.

His "evil" largely seems composed of taking lots of drugs and shagging lots of blokes. Living a licentious lifestyle but a lifetsyle that's these days judged very differently.

He was a master of occult theory...but even that...was deliberately meant to confuse others and make him appear pretty blxody spooky.


Talk of his pure evil power and unimaginably powerful magickal techniques...if all these were true it's fairly likely he wouldn't have died a penniless junkie in some cruddy B and B in Hastings, alone and ignored.
 
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Coastaljames said:
Crowley wasn't evil. Let alone pure evil.

The fact you think he was would have pleased him greatly!

He was...unusual. Possessed with a selfish lust for himself. An explorer of within and without. A very different type of person.

He fostered and encouraged tawdry tales of his "evilness". Teasing others that he was the devil incarnate was a childish and silly pursuit he engaged in since childhood and never got bored of. He adored confusing, tricking, misdirecting, spreading disinformation about himself and the world, and the worlds around us. His goal was manipulation and he was very, very good at it. Manipulating others for his own goals.

Fascinating man.

His "evil" largely seems composed of taking lots of drugs and shagging lots of blokes. Living a licentious lifestyle but a lifetsyle that's these days judged very differently.

He was a master of occult theory...but even that...was deliberately meant to confuse others and make him appear pretty blxody spooky.


Talk of his pure evil power and unimaginably powerful magickal techniques...if all these were true it's fairly likely he wouldn't have died a penniless junkie in some cruddy B and B in Hastings, alone and ignored.
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That's pretty much my view of the man too. A shameless self promoter, someone who wanted to be famous for being famous, without really having to put too much into it. Talk yourself up as Evil Incarnate, make up a few stories of licentious behaviour, actually display some other licentious behaviour, get everyone talking - Bob's your uncle. You've made a name for yourself.
 
catseye said:
If he can find my pelvic bone, he can lick away...
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Abrahadabra!!!

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Aleister+Crowley

Wear what panties thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law!!! Do that and no man shall say nay.
https://www.cafepress.com/+aleister_crowley_classic_thong,1130286438
 
Coastaljames said:
Crowley wasn't evil. Let alone pure evil.

The fact you think he was would have pleased him greatly!
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If that was aimed at me, I don't.

Oh, I managed to buy a copy of Magick Without Tears for a tenner plus postage! They usually sell for about £80!
 

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XEPER_ said:
If that was aimed at me, I don't.

Oh, I managed to buy a copy of Magick Without Tears for a tenner plus postage! They usually sell for about £80!
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Coastaljames said:
^ That's a good find, well done.

Don't take it too seriously :p
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Brings to mind Karswell's History of Witchcraft, which was both critically panned and condemned as 'an evil book'.

After a time the talk reverted to the History of Witchcraft, 'Did you ever look into it?' asked the host.

'Yes, I did,' said the Secretary. 'I went so far as to read it.'

'Was it as bad as it was made out to be?'

'Oh, in point of style and form, quite hopeless. It deserved all the pulverizing it got. But, besides that, it was an evil book. The man believed every word of what he was saying, and I'm very much mistaken if he hadn't tried the greater part of his receipts.'
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('Receipts' here means 'recipes'. He is disparaging Karswell's magical practices. Most unwisely, as it turns out.)

I do love Casting The Runes. :pipe:
 
It does surprise me that people who admit they've never read his magickal writings have strong opinions on what AC was like. I mean, read his stuff and make an informed opinion - much of it is FREE on this fantastic website:
https://hermetic.com/crowley/index

I think his work is very odd. A bit like HP Lovecraft, a first reading made me think it was poor. Then it wormed into my brain and made me curious and I am a huge fan now - there's so many gems in his writing, even just little lines here and there that hit me quite powerfully. But there's been times I've ended up really confused. I managed to borrow a copy of 777 from my local library a good few years ago now and remember thinking it was amazing (not the tables of symbols, the essay part). But I bought a copy more recently and can't get my head around it at all, it's fucking gibberish! There really does seem to be some sort of connection needed when you read certain books if you are to GET them. Hopefully one day that copy of 777 will make sense again!
 
XEPER_ said:
...it's fucking gibberish!
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Thread closed. We're done here :bananas:



But joking aside, I agree with you Xeper...so many with an opinion have never read anything of his. His work is a trip...it's not conventional. It's a rabbit hole...with no answers...with the questions unclear. But there is...movement in it...it is working as you read it. It is special and genuinely magical in that context. Is there anything in it? I don't know...I don't think it works like that...it's individual, as you say it may be dependant on where you are in your head at the time. It can be of worth and value to you, as an individual. And this individual internal psychological exploring was what the Big C was all about.
 
What people forget is that Crowley was writing about, and acting out in his own life, concepts that were absolutely taboo at the time. Many of his ideas were considered obscene and undermining of public morality.

Just the thought of homosexuality or bisexuality, or that an unmarried couple could have sex without the woman being publicly ruined, were scandalous.

These things did go on of course but in private or in secret. Crowley didn't see why this hypocrisy was necessary.*
It's no coincidence that Crowley's fame revived and became almost mainstream in the late '60s/early '70s.

So yup, he might seem a crap writer to us, but the style was of its time and the content is more important.

*I can remember being personally told by my Grammar School headmistress that unmarried sex was wrong, in about 1972. She was a lesbian who lived with her girlfriend all her adult life.
 
escargot said:
What people forget is that Crowley was writing about, and acting out in his own life, concepts that were absolutely taboo at the time. Many of his ideas were considered obscene and undermining of public morality.

Just the thought of homosexuality or bisexuality, or that an unmarried couple could have sex without the woman being publicly ruined, were scandalous.

These things did go on of course but in private or in secret. Crowley didn't see why this hypocrisy was necessary.*
It's no coincidence that Crowley's fame revived and became almost mainstream in the late '60s/early '70s.
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This is true, important and well-writen, thank you.

He was effectively living the hippy dream of drugs and free-love lifestyle 50, 60 years before San Fransisco. A very modern sort of man. As you say, it is no suprise he got trendy in the 60s and 70s and then once again the late 80s/90s as part of the underground acid house scene in the UK.

It is no wonder the establishment labelled him "the wickedest man in the world", which he has absolutely loved and took as license to push things even further.
 
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Coastaljames said:
It is no wonder the establishment labelled him "the wickedest man in the world", which he has absolutely loved and took as license to push things even further.
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Exactly. He was seen as wicked because he promoted antinomianism and homosexuality and not just blindly following the herd. I guess this is one reason why so many metal bands have been into his teachings.
Nowadays he'd be a big hero. In fact, he'd probably seem quite tame in comparison to some stuff out there, even stuff pushed and pushed in the mainstream like that WAP song.

Escargot, it's quite sad to think of your teacher, being a lesbian and undoubtedly feeling anguish about it her whole life, passing on the idea that sex before (Christian no doubt) marriage was wrong to the next generation.
 
XEPER_ said:
Nowadays he'd be a big hero. In fact, he'd probably seem quite tame in comparison to some stuff out there, even stuff pushed and pushed in the mainstream like that WAP song.
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Why did I immediately imagine Crowley dropping a guest verse and appearing in the video of that song! :D


Darn, him, this is why he is so bloxdy subversive!!!
 
XEPER_ said:
Escargot, it's quite sad to think of your teacher, being a lesbian and undoubtedly feeling anguish about it her whole life, passing on the idea that sex before (Christian no doubt) marriage was wrong to the next generation.
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Yup, it was most unfair. No doubt what she said to me was expected of someone in her position but she was living a lie.
This was the early 70s. Lesbianism has never been illegal but if she'd come out she'd've been sacked.

On the other hand, at the time I didn't know she was a lesbian (or indeed what a lesbian was or even the very word 'lesbian'!) or I'd have said 'So how's it OK for you then?'

Whereas if she were alive now now she'd be happily married to her loving spouse and nobody'd bat an eyelid.
 
Part of the Left Hand Path is to break taboos and deprogram yourself, realizing the divine in even the most depraved violations of religious law and societal norms. That even excrement is god.
 
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