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Amityville Horror: Where Do You Stand?

Did Something Supernatural Happen in Amityville?

  • No, it's a Hoax all the way and the Lutz family lied through their teeth

    Votes: 43 46.2%
  • No, but the Lutz family convinced themselves & the Warrens it was real over the years

    Votes: 28 30.1%
  • Yes, but it wasn't at all to the level of the book, just a minor haunting

    Votes: 20 21.5%
  • Yes, and it was exactly what was in the book

    Votes: 2 2.2%
  • Yes, but only the psychic impressions of the case were real - no material haunting

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    93
'Amityville Horror' Man Blasts Remake As "Drivel"

The original owner of the Amityville Horror house has blasted the remake of the movie after producers refused to call on his services as a consultant. George Lutz was the victim of the real-life horror tale about the possessed New York state home, and turned his terrible tale into a cult book, on which the original 1979 film was based. But Lutz is far from impressed with the new Andrew Douglas film, released in America this weekend, claiming the director ignored his offers of help and, as a result, has made a purely fictional film. Lutz tells movie website Moviehole.Net, "I was excluded from any participation that might have allowed for accurate depictions in this film. There is a craft to acting... Some actors are more serious about their art. They take time to research a part. In the case of retelling an actual event, they look into the history and research the people involved. That just didn't happen here. Based on what I've read from his interviews, this kid (Scott Kosar) thinkds his script is the true story because that's what he's been told. He's quite happy to look no further than that. A tremendous disservice has been orchestrated here. The filmmakers have fabricated many incredibly inaccurate statements made during promotion interviews and press packs. These serve to misinform with a drivel that is pure sophistry. I am appalled at the lack of personal integrity in the name of hype and promotion. This (film) is supposed to be about my family and the 28 days we lived in the house, instead it is something formed in the minds of others not concerned with anything more than box office numbers and self import."

http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/2005-04-12/

To me, this kinda thing looks bad for Mr. Lutz, because it sounds more like sour grapes than anything else... (and I'm a supporter of "something" actually occuring!)
 
I thought the commercial seemed really different from the book. Then I told myself it was a commercial and I couldn't tell by that and that I was just being stupid. Guess not.
 
That's true, but at the same time it is his and his family's story, and if they want it to be accurate it would make sense to consult him.
 
While not a proponent of the 'reality' of the events portrayed in the book/movie, what really scared me when I was a much, much younger fortean were the truly and utterly bizarre aspects of the haunting as detailed in the original book. There was just something horribly wrong about waking up to hear a marching band tromp through your living room, or a little girl having lengthy conversations with a flying satanic pig ( although I understand that neither of these occurances appear in the latest film incarnation). My answer to the book's detractors was always ''why would someone make something like that up?'' obviously, however, cash and notoriety can be great motivating factors, which might compel certain people to do/say almost anything in pursuit of their fifteen minutes of fame ( no matter how fleeting ).
 
ignatius said:
My answer to the book's detractors was always ''why would someone make something like that up?''

While the rewards can't be overlooked we shouldn't just go for a true or false - esp. as Forteans. There may be many reasons why people give genuinely werid accounts which they believe to be true but which have less than supernatural explanations.

There is certainly a hallucinatory quality to some of the accounts which suggest that lying might not be the simple explanation - the sound of a marching band and demonic pig don't sound like the kinds of things people would make up and expect everyone to believe.
 
Emperor said:
There is certainly a hallucinatory quality to some of the accounts which suggest that lying might not be the simple explanation - the sound of a marching band and demonic pig don't sound like the kinds of things people would make up and expect everyone to believe.
My point exactly, and in this regard it has always reminded me of some of the more bizarre events described in Keel's 'Mothman Prophecies'.
 
or a little girl having lengthy conversations with a flying satanic pig ( although I understand that neither of these occurances appear in the latest film incarnation).

That's not in the new movie! But that's the scariest part! :(

Anyway, conversation between me and my bf:

bf: What do you want to do to celebrate your birthday?

me: I don't know. I was thinking in might be fun to see The Amityville Horror if it's playing at the theatre near here.

bf: Well I figured that.


Does he know me or what? :D
 
What I find irritating about the advertising for the latest remake is their "Based on a true story" tag on it. From what I understand, the latest film incarnation is vastly different from what was claimed to have actually happened; in effect, they're using location, characters and selected events, making the rest up, and still billing it as "true" story, since most moviegoers skim right over that "based" part -- or, more likely, interpret it incorrectly as being true to the actual story as it was told.

Anyway. More of a rant against misleading advertising -- rampant in films, and I hate it -- than anything else. Other than that, the trailer looked satisfyingly creepy.
 
So, I saw the new movie Saturday night. Although there were some major differences (such as Jody being a little girl instead of a pig), the movie was REALLY REALLY GOOD! My bf, who is not usually scared by movies, described it as the scariest movie he had ever seen and said that he probably wouldn't be able to sleep for the next two nights. Personally, I thought Signs and The Exorcist were just as scary. Great movie.
 
But he was supposed to be being posessed or something by whatever was in the house. That happened in the original story. When I read the book I just kept thinking about how horrible he was.
 
It's been a while since I've read the book, but he's not exactly possessed... maybe he is once or twice in the original movie.

Even if he is possessed in this version... to portray a real living person in this way in wrong in my opinion.
 
I'm not sure if he was exactly posessed in the book, but the house was doing stuff to him and making him act different in ways which were similar to what it was doing to him in the movie.
 
Just mentioning in case anyone's interested.

Coast to Coast AM tonight (24 April) is a rebroadcast of a 27 December 2002 program featuring George Lutz. The little blurb on the Web site says he "discusses the frightening events that occurred to his family during their 28-day stay in the infamous Amityville House."
 
Well, I think I know what happened (and is still happening).

Something about the house and it's history was subconsciously picked up by the family, and played upon their minds. Each individual imagined something different, but each was affected (mathematical probability of all members being affected is pretty low but hey, these things are also mathematically likely to happen sometime, even sod's law succumbs to mathematical probability).

So as all were imagining something, they felt emotions in reaction to this and affected eachother. The effects and consequences of this snowballed into a sort of collective dellusion (sympathetic dellusions you might say, since each member of the family is close to the other by biology and psychology they all feel for eachother).

The same thing happened with some of the people (scientists or parapsychologists or just bog standard civies) who visited or stayed in the house later. The thing for them was, even if they told themselves otherwise, they wanted to believe.

This coupled with a subconscious analysis and sympathetic batch of feelings for all that had happened before means - yep, a similar effect was felt and of course that snowballed...

The whole thing is just a bunch of people saying there are hauntings because they want to believe.

:twisted:
 
but he's not exactly possessed...

Now George Lutz seems to be only possessed by greed and vengeance.

The only thing the Lutze$ were trying to accomplish by writing the book wa$ ca$h in. For Chri$t $ake, they go on national televi$ion (Hi$tory Channel doc$) and $ay that they decided to write the book over a bottle of wine with their lawyer.

Three thing$ that don't mix:

1) Plot to tell their $tory
2) Lawyer
3) Drunkene$$

In my mind, George Lutz i$ about as credible as Ronald DeFeo. Intere$ting how they both look alike, both lived in the $ame house, both have repeatedly ca$hed in on their time in the hou$e, and both change their $torie$ constantly.
 
quilty said:
but he's not exactly possessed...

Now George Lutz seems to be only possessed by greed and vengeance.

The only thing the Lutze$ were trying to accomplish by writing the book wa$ ca$h in. For Chri$t $ake, they go on national televi$ion (Hi$tory Channel doc$) and $ay that they decided to write the book over a bottle of wine with their lawyer.

LOL, are you kidding? Were you drunk when you saw those documentaries?

It was lawyer William Weber who claims it was "concocted" over bottles of wine - note, he was not their lawyer - and he only said this when he was in litigation with the Lutzes!

They met him to discuss the DeFeo's time in the house... he was more interested in putting their story in a DeFeo book he was planning...

He also made the story public by calling a press conference in Feb 1976.
 
LOL, are you kidding? Were you drunk when you saw those documentaries?

Gee, sherbetbizarre, that's kind of harsh. You seem to be taking this all a little too seriously (just like you've done on other Amityville boards with harsh language and honing in on details rather than the broad topic...and being belligerent toward those that disagree with your views :roll:).

Your criticism of my post are merely quibbles...inserting your facts into my post doesn't change the overall meaning of the post which is that the Lutzes are only concerned with keeping their name and checkbooks firmly connected with the franchise.

"their lawyer" vs. "he was in litigation with the Lutzes"...not a whole lot of difference as the overally meaning was that he was involved with the Lutzes. It was a passing comment in the documentary and a passing comment in my post.

As for their reasons for meeting with Weber, not much was made of it in the documentary...and changing the reason doesn't change the overall meaning of my message.

As for how their story was made public...again, not really relevant.

None of your objections change the fact that the evidence points to the Lutzes and Weber cashing in.

So, you see...a casual post to add my personal opinion to a discussion is really no cause for attack and accusing me of being drunk simply because I don't remember three words from a five year old documentary isn't very fair.
 
quilty said:
LOL, are you kidding? Were you drunk when you saw those documentaries?

Gee, sherbetbizarre, that's kind of harsh. You seem to be taking this all a little too seriously (just like you've done on other Amityville boards with harsh language and honing in on details rather than the broad topic...and being belligerent toward those that disagree with your views :roll:).

I've always tried to avoid "harsh language" and "being belligerent toward those that disagree ", so maybe you have me confused with someone else...

As for "honing in on details rather than the broad topic" - how on Earth is that a bad thing???

Why do you think most people conclude this was an out-and-out hoax? It's because they read "passing comments" like yours and take them on board as the truth.

The why's and the when's of how the story broke are important to understanding who exactly was cashing in... and they should never be glossed over.

Your criticism of my post are merely quibbles...inserting your facts into my post doesn't change the overall meaning of the post which is that the Lutzes are only concerned with keeping their name and checkbooks firmly connected with the franchise.

"their lawyer" vs. "he was in litigation with the Lutzes"...not a whole lot of difference as the overally meaning was that he was involved with the Lutzes.

It changes the meaning entirely... you imply that they decide to "cash in" over a drunken meeting with their lawyer, when nothing of the sort happened.

I apoligise for calling you drunk btw, it was just a reference to the "bottle of wine" thing and I should have made that clearer.

None of your objections change the fact that the evidence points to the Lutzes and Weber cashing in.

And speaking of evidence, how has George "contantly changed his story" as you stated in your original post?

Jason

http://www.amityvillefaq.com
 
so maybe you have me confused with someone else...

Yup. sherbetbizarre is a pretty common name. That multiplied with your writing style and tone is merely a coincidence.

As for "honing in on details rather than the broad topic" - how on Earth is that a bad thing???

Paints you as doing anything to make your views seem correct rather than have an interesting discussion that casual observers want to talk part in or even read for that matter.

Why do you think most people conclude this was an out-and-out hoax? It's because they read "passing comments" like yours and take them on board as the truth.

Well, the Amityville "haunting" took place 30+/- years ago...not many people REALLY care about it anymore. All you're going to get is passing comments. All of the different facets of the entire incident (murders, alleged haunting, post-book/movie mania) are interesting...but not in a way that most people are going to tireless research every detail and nuance of the case.

The bottom line is that only a handful of people know what happened the night of the murders and none of 'em are talking. One of them refuses to give a consistent or logical story about what actually happened.

As for the alleged haunting, only handful of people know what actually happened. And none of them seem to have stories that align with each other. If they were on trial, they'd be convicted...because no one can keep their story straight from one telling to the other (and if I were fanatical about this case...then I'd insert a carefully-researched bibliography here about every interview and every instance in which their story has changed. But since Amityville for me, like the overwhelming majority of the people on Earth, only holds a slight interest...I don't really care to compile such a bibliography simply to prove a point in an online p*ssing contest). Also, the fact that there hasn't been, to my knowledge, a firm statement from anyone that's lived in the house before or since that anything spooky was going on doesn't really lend much credibility to the Lutzes.

I apoligise for calling you drunk btw, it was just a reference to the "bottle of wine" thing and I should have made that clearer.

Yes, you should have. Remember that online is text and not the inflection of your voice. I'm sure had I heard you say it, it would have been hysterically funny. But I didn't...and it wasn't.

And speaking of evidence, how has George "contantly changed his story" as you stated in your original post?

It's pretty much known that George, Kathy, and the kids (whatever their names are or whatever they've changed them to) all have different stories about what happened and that details in the book change from printing to printing. If this were a common occurance (and George described the haunting as all of them having their own experiences...which seems like a convenient way to write off any inconsistencies), then I'd buy it. But I've never heard of anyone having a similar experience with a haunting.

I will say this...it's the publisher's fault through and through. Had the original publisher of "The Amityville Horror" not splashed "A true story" across the front of that book and said "Based on true events"...or made it clear in a disclaimer that liberties were taken for dramatic effect...the story might have a little more credibility.

That being said, there are other interesting topics on this message board that I'd love to discuss. Discussing anything with die-hard Amityville fans or those involved with the haunting, always seems to degrade into he-said-she-said/prove-every-word nastiness. It's just not worth it.

So, Jason, it was good to see you again. Enjoy yourself. I'm off to the crypto board to read about a new bigfoot video.
 
You raise some interesting points, Quility! Although I disagree with your overall conclusion.

First I'd like to apoligise to everyone if I bought this thread down to the standards of an average Amityville fight-fest (yes, they get very nasty), I realise this is not the place for it.

As for "honing in on details rather than the broad topic" - how on Earth is that a bad thing???

Paints you as doing anything to make your views seem correct rather than have an interesting discussion that casual observers want to talk part in or even read for that matter.

This is where I have the problem -- why would anyone want to choose the facts over an "interesting discussion"... and then base their opinion on those discussions?

I remember reading a post on this board by someone who was "getting fed up with full-page rebuttles on the letters page" - lol - so it's OK for someone like Rick Moran to print speculation and opinion - as a Fortean cover story no less - under the banner of "the true story" and not be taken to task?

Is it ok when Mark Kermode takes this article as the basis for dismissing Amityville on his Channel 4 page? http://www.channel4.com/film/reviews/feature.jsp?V=3&SV=3&id=144535 If Kermode did just an 8th of his Exorcist research, he'd dismiss Moran's article and find his own conclusions.

So much of what the public believes on Amityville comes via Chinese whispers... "they held a garage sale the day after fleeing"... "the priest admitted he was involved in a hoax"... do have basis in truth... but twisted to the point where the meaning becomes something else entirely.

I for one think Forean readers deserve better than this.
 
Rick Moran will be appearing in a new Amityville documentary to be shown on Channel 4 on October 24th...

The one-hour show will include new interviews from George Lutz, William Weber and many others. Hopefully we'll see more opinions added to poll once it airs!

TheRealAmity.jpg
 
Interesting documentary but it did leave me wanting to know more about what what was, something which did previously leave me cold.

My gut feeling has always been it was a hoax, a rather large one but a hoax all the same.I still feel the same after watching last night's documentary. However i'm now intruiged by the post-Lutz experiences and especially the "little demon boy" picture, which is either one of the best ghost pictures ever or a fantastic hoax.Either way it was wonderfully creepy as were much of the stories.
 
I caught the last half of the programme, which included the 'demon boy' photograph, and it seems to me that it's more than likely simply a shot of a curious boy caught in the flash of the camera, especially when you consider that other photographs in the sequence show that there were people milling about the scene.

PS: Found the photos: -

http://www.xmotu.com/graphics/photos_1.jpg

http://www.xmotu.com/graphics/photos_2.jpg
 
I thought they said there were no children in the house when they were taking those pictures?
 
They might well believe that there were no children in the house, but if they didn't observe any children, that doesn't necessarily mean that no children were there.

* edit for spellign
 
The show was for me quite balanced and didn't set out to prove or disprove anything merely allow the protagonists to speak for themselves.

The original article that appeared in 'Good Houskeeping' by Paul Hoffman that just mentioned cold spots and odd noises and was mentioned in the program would've been interesting to read but despite a fairly extensive google I can't find it. That for me makes more sense than slimey walls and demonic faces.

Hans Holzer came across as barmier than a bag of ferrets and the Psychic he used who said 'when I walked in I knew a teenager had made a decision there that was life changing', erm, yeah you think? :roll:

Shame they didn't get an interview with Lloyd Auerbach who did a fairly extensive investigation and found nothing at the house and some fairly glaring inconsistancies in the original book.
 
Heckler20 said:
The original article that appeared in 'Good Houskeeping' by Paul Hoffman that just mentioned cold spots and odd noises and was mentioned in the program would've been interesting to read but despite a fairly extensive google I can't find it. That for me makes more sense than slimey walls and demonic faces.

It doesn't appear to be online at the moment.

I'd have liked to see George give examples of what to ignore in Jay Anson's book... because when he says its "mostly accurate" the average person thinks only of the high points of drama in the book.

For instance the green slime and ripped doors are all exagerations...

And that's usually the stuff Rick Moran & Peter Jordan talk about when they say they've debunked the case!

Hans Holzer came across as barmier than a bag of ferrets

For more of the same, check out his commentary on the '79 movie DVD :shock:

Shame they didn't get an interview with Lloyd Auerbach who did a fairly extensive investigation and found nothing at the house and some fairly glaring inconsistancies in the original book.

I've never heard of this guy! Who the hell is he?
 
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