Amityville Horror: Where Do You Stand?

[Coastaljames]

Even, as i pointed out in reply to that post, most if not all of the 'demons' the priest 'exorcised' are fictional characters lol

And I was serious in my answer about it.

I genuinely believe you are more likely to be "possessed" by Annabelle than Pazuzu, in 2021 in America.

 

[catseye]

I don't think we're necessarily 'knocking' the USA, they are as entitled to their beliefs as we are to ours. We are just pointing out the cultural differences.

 

[Coastaljames]

I don't think we're necessarily 'knocking' the USA, they are as entitled to their beliefs as we are to ours. We are just pointing out the cultural differences.

I'm certainly not. And, of course, it's foolish to think all American share the same beliefs.

My original point was just a lot of paranormal phenemoena witnessed seems to be very quickly labelled "demons". And this bores me because it shuts down the conversation.

 

[catseye]

I'm certainly not. And, of course, it's foolish to think all American share the same beliefs.

My original point was just a lot of paranormal phenemoena witnessed seems to be very quickly labelled "demons". And this bores me because it shuts down the conversation.

And also does away with any need for research, seemingly, WHY would demons be hanging around that particular house? We get some waffle about kids and ouija boards and that seems to take the place of any real, in depth investigation. At least 'a ghost' produces some questions - ghost of whom? What happened in the house to give rise to a ghost?

 

[Mythopoeika]

WHY would demons be hanging around that particular house?

The outstanding decor. Demons like that.

 

[GNC]

I'm not sure, but I think this new Amityville movie may not be based entirely on the facts:

 

[Junopsis]

And also does away with any need for research, seemingly, WHY would demons be hanging around that particular house? We get some waffle about kids and ouija boards and that seems to take the place of any real, in depth investigation. At least 'a ghost' produces some questions - ghost of whom? What happened in the house to give rise to a ghost?

yeah. stupid religious fundamentalism. The Warrens drive me up the wall and I'm disappointed they ever gave rise to a franchise.
If I was a ghost I'd be angry at them for lying about me and my nature.

 

[MrRING]

A 2005 documentary entitled The Real Amityville Horror:

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

To understand what happened at The Amityville Horror House, one has to realize that Ronald DeFeo murdered his whole family, claiming to hear voices in that house ordering him to do it.
Then there's the fact that at one time that whole area was inhabited by American Indians, and apparently many of them are buried there, right on that water.
And I think that some people are more susceptible than others to hearing and feeling the dead.
Having lived in a 'haunted' house for several years, which was also right on the water, I know these things happen.
And that house I lived in had many tragedies occur over the years, it was a very strange area - and also had a high population of American Indians at one time.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Another odd thing: right around the corner from us, George Washington crossed a river with his troops in 1776, it is a bridge with an Indian name, and he burned the bridge behind him.
We have a sign still on that bridge.
Never liked this area, gives me the creeps.

 

[escargot]

Have to say that I've never taken much interest in the Amityville stuff because, well, it's bollocks innit.
Brits wouldn't be taken in like that. We're not so superstitious.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Wow and I thought this was a Fortean site with open-mindedness?
And the Amityville story is not bollocks.
George and Kathy Lutz both passed lie detector tests.
I don't believe the British would be very happy if I called their reports 'bollocks'

 

[Yithian]

Have to say that I've never taken much interest in the Amityville stuff because, well, it's bollocks innit.
Brits wouldn't be taken in like that. We're not so superstitious.

If you've never taken much interest, then please don't post to say it's bollocks.

I've seen Brits taken in by all manner of nonsense.

 

[AmStramGram]

George and Kathy Lutz both passed lie detector tests.

Lie detectors are not reliable. It is a kind of myth. They simply measure some body parameters and assume that variations betray a lie, which is a bit bold. For instance, I personnaly have a very irregular heart beat. Quite often, doctors are surprised when they notice it, and tell me to calm down ... But I am already calm. It is just the way my heart beats ... So I wouldn't trust any "detector" assuming my body parameters to be indicative of a lie.

If you are interested by an American presentation of the lie detector and his drawbacks, here is a nice article by Robert Carrol (RIP), former owner of the Skeptic's Dictionary : http://skepdic.com/polygrap.html

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Lie detectors are not reliable. It is a kind of myth.

Well let's put it this way - they both didn't fail their lie detector tests, did they?
And they weren't inconclusive either.

 

[AmStramGram]

Well let's put it this way - they both didn't fail their lie detector tests, did they?
And they weren't inconclusive either.

Perhaps, but what does it change about the case, if lie detectors are simply inaccurate ? It alas does not prove anything.

There may indeed have been uncanny things happening at Amityville (as in other places). However, although I won't follow Escargot's footsteps calling the whole story "bollocks" (as I am no expert), I am afraid that any discussion of the case is fundamentally flawed / biased by the fact that it almost immediately gave way to a book, The Amityville Horror : A true Story, which was, it appears, full of non-confirmed information (to speak politely). You may have a look at the "Criticism and controversy" section of the wikipedia page here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amityville_Horror ) for a selection of fake data that got into the story (for instance, mentions of footsteps in the snow when there had been no recorded snowfall).

So, most unfortunately, through the book, and through the interests of some participants (if I had been de Feo, I would also have attempted to plead insanity through "hearing voices"), fiction interminggled with what may or may not have happened ... Hence it is probably not the best case to investigate weird phenomena.

I suspect that's what spurred Escargot's vigorous answer. She probably did not intend to insult anyone

 

[escargot]

Wow and I thought this was a Fortean site with open-mindedness?
And the Amityville story is not bollocks.
George and Kathy Lutz both passed lie detector tests.
I don't believe the British would be very happy if I called their reports 'bollocks'

Call away, it wouldn't bother me.

 

[escargot]

If you've never taken much interest, then please don't post to say it's bollocks.

I've seen Brits taken in by all manner of nonsense.

I read the book when it came out and didn't believe a word, and have since read various articles and seen items about it on TV that didn't convince me.
After evaluating the subject objectively, as with the Enfield Poltergeist, the Cottingley Fairies and sundry other mysteries, I came back to the testicular explanation.

I do this a lot. Thinking in a Fortean way doesn't mean swallowing everything that's chucked at you.

 

[ChasFink]

Maybe it's because I am probably the member who lives closest to Amityville, but I never believed anything supernatural was happening there beyond maybe some run of the mill ghost phenomena. You'd think there would be lots of talk about the place throughout Long Island if a lot of people bought into the story, but to be honest it seems like belief waned more and more as the fictional stories of the movie series, etc. proliferated.

To say that American Indians lived, died, and were buried anywhere in Suffolk County (and continue to do so) is kind of like saying trees grow in the forest. I've never understood why old Native American graves are more likely to cause spooky things than any other graves of similar vintage.

To me Amityville is just a not particularly interesting place on the South Shore.

 

[Lb8535]

Maybe it's because I am probably the member who lives closest to Amityville, but I never believed anything supernatural was happening there beyond maybe some run of the mill ghost phenomena. You'd think there would be lots of talk about the place throughout Long Island if a lot of people bought into the story, but to be honest it seems like belief waned more and more as the fictional stories of the movie series, etc. proliferated.

To say that American Indians lived, died, and were buried anywhere in Suffolk County (and continue to do so) is kind of like saying trees grow in the forest. I've never understood why old Native American graves are more likely to cause spooky things than any other graves of similar vintage.

To me Amityville is just a not particularly interesting place on the South Shore.

Agreed on all points; from about 10 minutes after what sounds like an act of severe mental illness, this became a revenue source.

 

[charliebrown]

There have been four owners since and each owner has rebuilt, remodeled, and changed the house into looking like something else.

But the real mystery is that the post office has given this house a made up a secret address for mail delivery because the house has no numbering.

But even stranger is Google Maps as blurred this area out, and it is claimed only military can blur things out on Google maps for sensitive, above top secret items.

 

[Damien]

There have been four owners since and each owner has rebuilt, remodeled, and changed the house into looking like something else.

But the real mystery is that the post office has given this house a made up a secret address for mail delivery because the house has no numbering.

But even stranger is Google Maps as blurred this area out, and it is claimed only military can blur things out on Google maps for sensitive, above top secret items.

It's NOT only the military that can blur out a place on Google maps, you can make applications for a private residence to be blurred out, it's a simple process.

 

[catseye]

'Hearing voices' sadly, is not usually a sign of the 'occult'. I've known too many people who have heard voices without the slightest suggestion that it was anything other than their own inner voice. If it were occult, then I wouldn't have expected the anti-psychotic drugs to have worked worth a jot. But they did, and do, and save a lot of lives.

 

[escargot]

There have been four owners since and each owner has rebuilt, remodeled, and changed the house into looking like something else.

But the real mystery is that the post office has given this house a made up a secret address for mail delivery because the house has no numbering.

But even stranger is Google Maps as blurred this area out, and it is claimed only military can blur things out on Google maps for sensitive, above top secret items.

Blurring or otherwise concealing of certain infamous buildings does go on, or at least that's what I've found.
I can think of three recentish examples when I've ghoulishly looked up the addresses of well-known crimes. Two were sites of 20th century murders and another was where a certain photo was taken.

In each case Google Earth showed the wrong house in the street and I couldn't step along to the right one. There seems to be censorship of it, perhaps because the current inhabitants asked for privacy.

 

[Lb8535]

There have been four owners since and each owner has rebuilt, remodeled, and changed the house into looking like something else.

But the real mystery is that the post office has given this house a made up a secret address for mail delivery because the house has no numbering.

But even stranger is Google Maps as blurred this area out, and it is claimed only military can blur things out on Google maps for sensitive, above top secret items.

Every house in NY has to have an address for the 911 system whether the occupants choose to use it and put it on the outside or not. You don't have to have mail delivery - mail in your name can go to a PO box without the box being "tied" to an address it replaces. But I guarantee that the tax lot has an "address" even if no one except the 911 system uses it, although that address is not public information. There are places outside of NY, like Carmel, CA, which are twee enough to have no street addresses (and come to think of it I bet that for the CA 911 system they have them too.)

 

[ChasFink]

But the real mystery is that the post office has given this house a made up a secret address for mail delivery because the house has no numbering

It's nowhere near that secret. The former 112 Ocean Avenue was renumbered to 108 to discourage folks from bothering the residents. House number sequences on Long Island often have gaps, owing to small lots being consolidated to build large houses, so this probably didn't disrupt the order of the house numbers. This information is very easy to find online, but I guess the theory was if you're smart enough to research it, you're smart enough to know they don't want you knocking on their door.

 

[Junopsis]

The house got made famous by a series of media works and some really shady people (not a fan of the Warrens; not just for their attitude about the supernatural but the accusation of abuse). At any rate, I wouldn't want people coming to take photos if I lived there. Even if the resident themselves wasn't freaked out by that sort of indirect harassment, the neighborhood probably has opinions, too.

 

[sherbetbizarre]

I am afraid that any discussion of the case is fundamentally flawed / biased by the fact that it almost immediately gave way to a book, The Amityville Horror : A true Story, which was, it appears, full of non-confirmed information (to speak politely). You may have a look at the "Criticism and controversy" section of the wikipedia page here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amityville_Horror ) for a selection of fake data that got into the story (for instance, mentions of footsteps in the snow when there had been no recorded snowfall).

George Lutz kept his original copy of the book in which he and Kathy had circled various passages they had questions about... In other words, they were the first to realise Jay Anson had made stuff up (usually to end his chapters strongly)

The only thing Anson admitted to was re-arranging dates, so the snow incident did not occur on the date Anson chose.

There's a new Podcast called Very Scary People, which includes interesting bits from people who knew the DeFeo's, but unfortunately they also have Ric Osuna, the self-styled "expert" who "believes" there were multiple people involved in the murders, followed by a police cover-up

https://edition.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/very-scary-people

 

[charliebrown]

Not being that familiar, reading into this situation is like a Agatha Christie book with a lot of red herrings.

Ron DeFeo, Jr. said the mother killed everyone then changed his story that the sister Dawn killed everyone.

There were multiple friends involved.

With the victims, there was no struggle, no drugs in their body, no silencer on the rifle, no noise reported by the neighbors, and all the victims according to wikipedia were found stretched out face down in their beds.

But Ron was bad on LSD and heroin which fried his brain.

And as mentioned horrible physical and mental abuse by the father with all the family and family members against family members, which is probably the reason Ron killed everyone.

But this haunted house could had driven every crazy !

I think the house was haunted.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

Not being that familiar, reading into this situation is like a Agatha Christie book with a lot of red herrings.

Ron DeFeo, Jr. said the mother killed everyone then changed his story that the sister Dawn killed everyone.

There were multiple friends involved.

With the victims, there was no struggle, no drugs in their body, no silencer on the rifle, no noise reported by the neighbors, and all the victims according to wikipedia were found stretched out face down in their beds.

But Ron was bad on LSD and heroin which fried his brain.

And as mentioned horrible physical and mental abuse by the father with all the family and family members against family members, which is probably the reason Ron killed everyone.

But this haunted house could had driven every crazy !

I think the house was haunted.

If the house wasn't haunted before the murders, it may be now. BTW, if I was going to kill someone and get caught, I would claim to hear voices too.