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Amityville Horror: Where Do You Stand?

Did Something Supernatural Happen in Amityville?

  • No, it's a Hoax all the way and the Lutz family lied through their teeth

    Votes: 43 46.2%

  • No, but the Lutz family convinced themselves & the Warrens it was real over the years

    Votes: 28 30.1%

  • Yes, but it wasn't at all to the level of the book, just a minor haunting

    Votes: 20 21.5%

  • Yes, and it was exactly what was in the book

    Votes: 2 2.2%

  • Yes, but only the psychic impressions of the case were real - no material haunting

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    93
There is a lot of background to this. You're totally right, everything in the US is demons - including ghosts, aliens, Bigfoot and other cryptids. Everything scary and new gets "demonized" including people who have different views. It's a scapegoat (in more ways than one) to avoid adapting to new things. The ridiculous deference we have to Christianity in the US makes the culture backwards.
 
Souleater said:
...most if not all of the 'demons' the priest 'exorcised' are fictional characters lol
Click to expand...

In fairness that was the only bit I liked.

I do think if you're going to be "possessed" in 2021 then it's much more likely that you're possessed by Annabelle than Pazuzu, ancient Mesopotamian Demon God of Wind.
 
Coastaljames said:
Brilliant and I totally agree! Was only contemplating this yesterday...everything gets a "demon" label. So dull and unimaginative.

The religion aspect interests me...I'm a practising Christian and I have no interest at all to label everything weird and potentially paranormal a "demon".
Click to expand...

In Horror films it is sometimes possible to differentiate between a Ghost (Haunted) and a Demon (Possessed) house, even if the Demon uses Poltergeist actions, sometimes the Ghost becomes a Demon or an Angry Ghost in the East Asian Style.

Some examples (imo):

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-86#post-2045855

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-85#post-2042838

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-84#post-2037922

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-83#post-2026141

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-83#post-2029560
 
ramonmercado said:
In Horror films it is sometimes possible to differentiate between a Ghost (Haunted) and a Demon (Possessed) house, even if the Demon uses Poltergeist actions, sometimes the Ghost becomes a Demon or an Angry Ghost in the East Asian Style.

Some examples (imo):

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-86#post-2045855

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-85#post-2042838

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-84#post-2037922

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-83#post-2026141

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/horror-films.59441/page-83#post-2029560
Click to expand...
So maybe the American paranormal investigators are working under the influence of modern media, whilst ours in the UK are under the influence of folklore.
 
The TV shows all ape one another. Imitation is the sincerest form of television, and all that. They are all chasing what sells (or what is thought to be required for selling), and the audience for this kind of, er, entertainment generally likes be be freaked out by it. Demons are scary to them. More mind numbing crap. It's the same audience that watches dreck like Jerry Springer's show in order to "feel better about themselves". Sad, really.
 
Sharon Hill said:
There is a lot of background to this. You're totally right, everything in the US is demons - including ghosts, aliens, Bigfoot and other cryptids. Everything scary and new gets "demonized" including people who have different views. It's a scapegoat (in more ways than one) to avoid adapting to new things. The ridiculous deference we have to Christianity in the US makes the culture backwards.
Click to expand...
Only in some places. I promise you that in the NY metro area there is minimal deference to Christianity.
 
Lb8535 said:
Only in some places. I promise you that in the NY metro area there is minimal deference to Christianity.
Click to expand...
Totally get that. Metropolitan areas are usually less hung up about that. But most of America is not metropolitan, in fact, they shun "big city" ideas. These days, even the suburban areas are highly religious and open to "demons" interfering in their lives.
 
catseye said:
So maybe the American paranormal investigators are working under the influence of modern media, whilst ours in the UK are under the influence of folklore.
Click to expand...

I was contemplating this exact same thing last night.
 
Sharon Hill said:
Totally get that. Metropolitan areas are usually less hung up about that. But most of America is not metropolitan, in fact, they shun "big city" ideas. These days, even the suburban areas are highly religious and open to "demons" interfering in their lives.
Click to expand...
I suppose it makes everything more convenient for the church to involve themselves in and condemn.
 
Sharon Hill said:
Totally get that. Metropolitan areas are usually less hung up about that. But most of America is not metropolitan, in fact, they shun "big city" ideas. These days, even the suburban areas are highly religious and open to "demons" interfering in their lives.
Click to expand...

Just thinking aloud here and might be totally inacurate...

But I, and I'm not there, am not sure how much this focus on "demons" is a result of Christianity's influence.

I'm not sure how much these "demons" are related to the Christian faith.

For me, and this is personal opinion, they seem to be much more based in the very American and very popular internet/Creepy Pasta/Reddit influence on talking about paranormal phenomena...all seems very shallow and designed to thrill and delight (which is not a bad thing) rather than actually be thoughtful about this stuff...

Demons
Shadow Men
Hat men
Slender Man
Rakes
Black eyed children


American contemporary legends. Very much disseminated via the internet.

(Before anyone says that demons are hardly contemporary, obviously I know that...what am I trying to say? I don't feel these "demons" are anything to do with Biblical demons.)
 
Coastaljames said:
Just thinking aloud here and might be totally inacurate...

But I, and I'm not there, am not sure how much this focus on "demons" is a result of Christianity's influence.

I'm not sure how much these "demons" are related to the Christian faith.

For me, and this is personal opinion, they seem to be much more based in the very American and very popular internet/Creepy Pasta/Reddit influence on talking about paranormal phenomena...all seems very shallow and designed to thrill and delight (which is not a bad thing) rather than actually be thoughtful about this stuff...

Demons
Shadow Men
Hat men
Slender Man
Rakes
Black eyed children


American contemporary legends. Very much disseminated via the internet.

(Before anyone says that demons are hardly contemporary, obviously I know that...what am I trying to say? I don't feel these "demons" are anything to do with Biblical demons.)
Click to expand...
There simply must be American 'apparitions' and simple hauntings that aren't characterised by 'evil', but the high profile ones all seem to be based on a perception of 'paranormal = evil'. Whereas in the UK there is much less of that and, by and large, our apparitions seem very neutral. Apart from one or two (and they seem almost inevitably to be modern, and therefore influenced by media) hauntings, ours are either benign or simply have no interaction in any way with onlookers.

The big 'sense of evil, voices saying 'get out', flies and maggots and presence of 'darkness'' mostly seem to emanate from across the pond.
 
Not just the US.

Grandmother captures image of 'demon' standing over her granddaughter's bed

She said it had horns and long claws.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/...5sLDb_OL1A8mcXKGAjFW1akWlI6Yltg2Z9UIZG9of4Qbs
Screen Shot 2021-03-17 at 7.55.37 AM.png
 
^ Case in point...why is it a demon?

I mean, obviously for a start, it's 99.999999% likely to be a person being caught at a odd angle and position. But in the unlikely event that it IS something paranormal then why a demon?
 
Coastaljames said:
Just thinking aloud here and might be totally inacurate...

But I, and I'm not there, am not sure how much this focus on "demons" is a result of Christianity's influence.

I'm not sure how much these "demons" are related to the Christian faith.

For me, and this is personal opinion, they seem to be much more based in the very American and very popular internet/Creepy Pasta/Reddit influence on talking about paranormal phenomena...all seems very shallow and designed to thrill and delight (which is not a bad thing) rather than actually be thoughtful about this stuff...

Demons
Shadow Men
Hat men
Slender Man
Rakes
Black eyed children


American contemporary legends. Very much disseminated via the internet.

(Before anyone says that demons are hardly contemporary, obviously I know that...what am I trying to say? I don't feel these "demons" are anything to do with Biblical demons.)
Click to expand...
Yeah, in modern Internet times, this must certainly be at play. The US exports its zany ideas worldwide.
But the US has had plagues of demons from our very religious beginnings. It's definitely related to the deep Judeo-Christian heritage that still keeps much of the US population from accepting evolution and has them voting for a candidate solely on the abortion issue. IMO, it's pathological.

But, I see similar things in countries like Zimbabwe where everything bad appears to be attributed to demons or witchcraft. Lately, there has been an uptick in stories regarding djinn here as well, reflecting non-Christian evil spirits.
 
Sharon Hill said:
Yeah, in modern Internet times, this must certainly be at play. The US exports its zany ideas worldwide.
But the US has had plagues of demons from our very religious beginnings. It's definitely related to the deep Judeo-Christian heritage that still keeps much of the US population from accepting evolution and has them voting for a candidate solely on the abortion issue. IMO, it's pathological.

But, I see similar things in countries like Zimbabwe where everything bad appears to be attributed to demons or witchcraft. Lately, there has been an uptick in stories regarding djinn here as well, reflecting non-Christian evil spirits.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think there is a lot of validity in all of that. Thanks for your insights.

(Except from the evolution and abortion bit....there are lots and lots and lots of U.S. Christians who accept both the scientific theory of evolution and the need for women to have access to abortion...but hey that's not really the discussion on this thread I guess :) )


As it stands - I'm bored of "demon" reports!

:actw:


And while I think there was some really grotty stuff going on in the Amityville house, I'm pretty sure it was good, old-fashioned human grottiness.
 
Sharon Hill said:
Yeah, in modern Internet times, this must certainly be at play. The US exports its zany ideas worldwide.
But the US has had plagues of demons from our very religious beginnings. It's definitely related to the deep Judeo-Christian heritage that still keeps much of the US population from accepting evolution and has them voting for a candidate solely on the abortion issue. IMO, it's pathological.

But, I see similar things in countries like Zimbabwe where everything bad appears to be attributed to demons or witchcraft. Lately, there has been an uptick in stories regarding djinn here as well, reflecting non-Christian evil spirits.
Click to expand...


What Sharon said. It's a mistake to underestimate the power fundamental religious beliefs hold over vast swaths of the population here. It's intellectually lazy but also easier for ignorant people to accept than some complicated reality that includes taking responsibility for what happens to us.
 
Not sure I can get much out of that.

There is a point to be made that those more willing to believe in religion are more willing to believe in the supernatural.

Jews apparent lack of belief seems odd since the Torah is full of "demons" and "ghosts". See also the Greek Orthodox and the New Testament.
 
Coastaljames said:
Not sure I can get much out of that.

There is a point to be made that those more willing to believe in religion are more willing to believe in the supernatural.

Jews apparent lack of belief seems odd since the Torah is full of "demons" and "ghosts". See also the Greek Orthodox and the New Testament.
Click to expand...
And considering the 10% number for atheists, it appears the error bar would be quite high. I think the important point may be that groups like Baptists, Pentecostals and general evangelical preachers seem more likely to push the demon angle than Catholics. Yet, we typically think of exorcism as a Roman Catholic rite. Also, Jewish people don't take stories so literally, I guess. We seriously lack critical thinking in the US.
 
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Austin Popper said:
What Sharon said. It's a mistake to underestimate the power fundamental religious beliefs hold over vast swaths of the population here. It's intellectually lazy but also easier for ignorant people to accept than some complicated reality that includes taking responsibility for what happens to us.
Click to expand...

The stories phoned into various popular US podcasts, (we all know who you are), I think you are right.
 
If it helps - (& I'm not American) - I would class myself as a believer in 'nothing in particular- I have a vague belief in the the survival of the self and a higher power, but don't follow any religion.
 
Coastaljames said:
Just thinking aloud here and might be totally inacurate...

But I, and I'm not there, am not sure how much this focus on "demons" is a result of Christianity's influence.

I'm not sure how much these "demons" are related to the Christian faith.

For me, and this is personal opinion, they seem to be much more based in the very American and very popular internet/Creepy Pasta/Reddit influence on talking about paranormal phenomena...all seems very shallow and designed to thrill and delight (which is not a bad thing) rather than actually be thoughtful about this stuff...

Demons
Shadow Men
Hat men
Slender Man
Rakes
Black eyed children


American contemporary legends. Very much disseminated via the internet.

(Before anyone says that demons are hardly contemporary, obviously I know that...what am I trying to say? I don't feel these "demons" are anything to do with Biblical demons.)
Click to expand...

Going back to this story, originally posted by @maximus otter

https://mb.com.ph/2021/03/05/priest-exorcist-warns-public-on-the-danger-of-patronizing-horror-films/

It appears the catholic chuch in the US doesnt just concern itself with biblical demons but also fictional characters from popular films, which it seems to think are demons too :hahazebs:
 
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