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Antikythera Mechanism

Antikythera Shipwreck Yields More Amazing Finds
10/06/2017 06:00:00 PM

For the third consecutive year, the Greek Ephorate of Underwater Antiquities has conducted an underwater excavation at the site of the Antikythera shipwreck. Work was carried out between the 4th and the 20th of September, under particularly good weather conditions, as has been announced by the Ministry of Culture and Sports.

During research, excavations continued in the sea area, from where come the remains of skeletons from last year’s operation, as well as components from the ship itself such as: sections of lead tubing, counterweights and aggregates of iron objects. At the same time, a multitude of shards of amphorae and other vessels were recovered in this year’s excavation season.

Among the most significant finds to be pulled up is a section of the bronze folds from a statue’s garment, as well as a right arm made of bronze, in one piece. An aggregate was also recovered formed round some iron object that is entirely oxidized and has left its imprint.


Read more at https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blog...hipwreck-yields-more.html#3YVpvDwdyfeRMdIJ.99
 
A bronze piece has been found in the same wreckage that the world famous enigmatic antikythera mechanism was found leading people to speculate it could be a missing part:


aclock01.jpg


aclock02.jpg


https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology...6p1Ygz8jhoRu2zTHOoZcdMYZ3l5rkAyyVDAAsz7GXmd0s
 
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Swifty said:
A bronze piece has been found in the same wreckage that the world famous enigmatic antikythera mechanism was found leading people to speculate it could be a missing part."
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I thought it was pretty well established that the antikythera device is an orrery and its purpose was for the calculation of horoscopes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
I would have thought that the evidence was pretty conclusive.
 
An interesting channel on the tooling and making of the mechanism
Also, in addition to AlchoPwn's point, the mechanism appears to have had a use in calculating festival dates (eg for Olympiads) and for predicting eclipses
 
OneWingedBird said:
Some sort of clock would have been hugely useful in order to calculate longitude?
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The antikythera device was not a clock. It tracked the movement of the heavens, and could be described as an orrery. As such, that wasn't what the antikythera device was for, nor did it have any astrolabe function, so it wasn't for use in navigation.

How longitude is calculated from timepieces:
https://www.google.com/search?q=How....12126j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=1
 
oo-eer!

I mean that

* you will be aware of new evidence, or the lack of it

* you will have changed as a person, stepping in the same river twice stuff

* you will have had time to sift and process
 
Just been doing some reading about Minoan technology and saw this article about the Palaikastro carvings.

They depict objects with geared wheels, with quite a striking similarity to the Antikythera mechanism.

These Minoan objects are significantly older though, dating from the second millennium BC.

Perhaps mechanical astronomical computers are far older than we thought?

Minoan.JPG
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Just been doing some reading about Minoan technology and saw this article about the Palaikastro carvings.

They depict objects with geared wheels, with quite a striking similarity to the Antikythera mechanism.

These Minoan objects are significantly older though, dating from the second millennium BC.

Perhaps mechanical astronomical computers are far older than we thought?

View attachment 27795
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Or it is a depiction of a sun symbol. Not every circle ringed by triangles is a cog wheel.
 
AlchoPwn said:
Or it is a depiction of a sun symbol. Not every circle ringed by triangles is a cog wheel.
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I appreciate that, AlchoPwn, but I felt that the central cruciform structure and peripheral cog-like protruberances on the carving did have a certain resemblance to the Antikythera device (see reconstruction below)
IMG_1051.JPG
 
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And the Antikythera wreck was obviously discovered only a short stretch of the Aegean away from Knossos (Crete).
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
I appreciate that, AlchoPwn, but I felt that the central cruciform structure and peripheral cog-like protruberances on the carving did have a certain resemblance to the Antikythera device (see reconstruction below)
View attachment 27818
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I actually didn't and don't disagree that it looks similar. You made that point and made it well, but let's face facts, the resemblance is happenstance. What is all-important is the gearing ratios, and those giant triangular teeth on the minoan picture couldn't do the job. I have also personally doodled circles with decorative crosses in them in primary school that looked a lot like the Antikythera mechanism without having any idea of the similarity.
 
AlchoPwn said:
I actually didn't and don't disagree that it looks similar. You made that point and made it well, but let's face facts, the resemblance is happenstance. What is all-important is the gearing ratios, and those giant triangular teeth on the minoan picture couldn't do the job. I have also personally doodled circles with decorative crosses in them in primary school that looked a lot like the Antikythera mechanism without having any idea of the similarity.
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Understood, but the proximity of the Minoan carvings to the discovery of the Antikythera mechanism struck me as possibly more than mere coincidence too.
As the carvings are separated from the device by some 1,400 years, I just find it nice to speculate that the former were perhaps some simple prototype blueprints, before the technicians perfected the mechanical device.
Maybe complete nonsense, but a pleasing thought all the same!
 
I tend to agree with the theory the "sun disk" figure in one of the Palaikastro plates is a template for producing a static astronomical calculation aid rather than a depiction of a component within a dynamic such aid (or any other machine).

The Palaikastro items are plates with figures carved into their surfaces. They are not finished artifacts, but rather dies or molds used to create such artifacts.

This 2013 research paper describes the sun-ray figure in detail and correlates its features with a long-term eclipse cycle. In addition, the authors note the artifact created from this die / mold could also serve as a sundial and navigation aid.

http://maajournal.com/Issues/2013/Vol13-1/FullTextTsikritzis.pdf
(PDF; circa 8 Mb)

My guess is that the Palaikastro plate figure may well represent a precedent for the "knowledge" programmed into the Antikythera Mechanism, but not a precedent for the "mechanism" per se.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Understood, but the proximity of the Minoan carvings to the discovery of the Antikythera mechanism struck me as possibly more than mere coincidence too.
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Save that the Minoan civilization got tsunami-ed out of existence circa 1590BC, and the antikythera mechanism is dated to 205BC at the very earliest. Given that the Bronze Age collapse occurred in 1177BC, and civilization pretty much had to reinvent itself in the interim, I don't think the evidence supports this observation as meaningful. For example, have we ever found a similar device on Crete's Minoan ruins? Only that inscription, which is decontextualized by the picture. I am not going to completely dismiss the possibility, but it needs plenty more evidence.
 
"My guess is that the Palaikastro plate figure may well represent a precedent for the "knowledge" programmed into the Antikythera Mechanism "

Which is what I was getting at, but you put it far more eloquently than I did!
 
AlchoPwn said:
Save that the Minoan civilization got tsunami-ed out of existence circa 1590BC, and the antikythera mechanism is dated to 205BC at the very earliest. Given that the Bronze Age collapse occurred in 1177BC, and civilization pretty much had to reinvent itself in the interim, I don't think the evidence supports this observation as meaningful. For example, have we ever found a similar device on Crete's Minoan ruins? Only that inscription, which is decontextualized by the picture. I am not going to completely dismiss the possibility, but it needs plenty more evidence.
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That's debatable, AlcohPwn.
There is no doubt that the tsunami clobbered Knossos, but evidence exists that the Minoan civilisation continued for at least a few generations after that. It was though in something of a tailspin and evidence of burned and ransacked temples hints at military conflict or possibly revolution at some level.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/pl...ami-wipe-out-a-cradle-of-western-civilization
 
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