• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Are the Fundies for real?

Original Sin = The Sin of Adam and Eve, of disobeying God's explicit command not to eat from the Tree he indicated, sometimes called the Tree of Knowledge. Original Sin was wiped clean by the sacrifice of Jesus. Which begs the question - why do we still have baptism? :confused:

Probably something to do with Immaculate Conception and all that as well, Mary being born without the stain of Original Sin; and I suppose it goes without saying that Christ was as well.

Good excuse for a party, I suppose.
 
'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.'
- Mahatma Ghandi
 
Fundamentalists often remind me of a song, the version of which I've heard sung by Dick Gaughan, Stand Up For Judas. Although I'm not very familiar with the Bible and what actually went on, I'm told it's a bit unfair to Jesus, which I'm willing to believe :)
 
The new short series "Putting the Fun into Fundamental":

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsi ... ental.html

was very interesting and worth catching.

Do 59% of Americans really believe we are living in The End Times?

They even had a fascinating visit to Bob Jones University - I especially enjoyed the bit with the chapeone where he said that you didn't need to know about evolution to be a biologist but that they did tach evolution but only as a theory and they also taught about Creationism which was the right theory!! Oh how I laughed, then got a bit scared, then laughed, then got a bit scared, etc.

I have to say I though the Rapture Index ("The prophetic speedometer of end-time activity") sounded great (although strangely familiar) - its here:

http://www.raptureready.com/rap2.html

and has some great categorie: "False Chirsts: 2" This year!! How did we miss that? Who were they?

I don't wish to point this out but the numbers are decreasing since the Millenium. Does that mean we are the Left Behind? How would we tell?

I also don't wish to encourage this and I'm unsure how they get their numbers but they do seem a bit low. "Occult: 4"? I could give them 4 a week (then again I seemed to have missed the False Christs so who am I to talk?).
 
The Christmas Miracle

Most Americans believe the virgin birth is literally true, a NEWSWEEK poll finds

Newsweek
Updated: 2:08 p.m. ET Dec. 5, 2004

Dec. 5 - Seventy-nine percent of Americans believe that, as the Bible says, Jesus Christ was born of the Virgin Mary, without a human father, according to a new NEWSWEEK poll on beliefs about Jesus.

Sixty-seven percent say they believe that the entire story of Christmas—the Virgin Birth, the angelic proclamation to the shepherds, the Star of Bethlehem and the Wise Men from the East—is historically accurate. Twenty-four percent of Americans believe the story of Christmas is a theological invention written to affirm faith in Jesus Christ, the poll shows. In general, say 55 percent of those polled, every word of the Bible is literally accurate. Thirty-eight percent do not believe that about the Bible.


In the NEWSWEEK poll, 93 percent of Americans say they believe Jesus Christ actually lived and 82 percent believe Jesus Christ was God or the Son of God. Fifty-two percent of all those polled believe, as the Bible proclaims, that Jesus will return to earth someday; 21 percent do not believe it. Fifteen percent believe Jesus will return in their lifetime; 47 percent do not, the poll shows.

When asked if there would be more or less kindness in the world today if there had never been a Jesus, 61 percent of all those polled say there would be less kindness. Forty-seven percent say there would be more war if there had never been a Jesus (16 percent say less, 26 percent say the same); 63 percent say there would be less charity; 58 percent say there would be less tolerance; 59 percent say there would be less personal happiness and 38 percent say there would be less religious divisions (21 percent say more and 26 percent say the same).

Just 11 percent of those surveyed say American society as a whole very closely reflects true Christian values and the spirit of Jesus; 53 percent say it somewhat reflects those values. But 86 percent say they believe organized religion has a “a lot” or “some” influence over life in the United States today. Nine percent say it has “only a little” influence.

Sixty-two percent say they favor teaching creation science in addition to evolution in public schools; 26 percent oppose such teaching, the poll shows. Forty-three percent favor teaching creation science instead of evolution in public schools; 40 percent oppose the idea.

For this NEWSWEEK Poll, Princeton Survey Research Associates interviewed by telephone 1,009 adults, aged 18 and older on Dec. 2 and Dec. 3. The margin of error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.
© 2004 Newsweek, Inc.
Click to expand...

Source
 
An interesting link my brother sent me:
From http://www.rof.com/letters.htm
I find it interesting that the Christian symbol representing the faith of fisherman and the miraculous multiplication of fish has sprouted legs to become a serpent.
Click to expand...
Now, did I miss a meeting? When did the serpents get their legs back?
 
I love it when people who carefully use Xmas or Xtian so as to avoid even a tip of the hat validation to Christianity trip on their own keyboards.

But then again, I'm the sort of Christian who tells fundamentalists: if we're picking and choosing from the book of Leviticus, you can have bacon for breakfast & shellfish for dinner, and I'll go right ahead and ****** to my heart's content. :D
 
Fallen Angel said:
I love it when people who carefully use Xmas or Xtian so as to avoid even a tip of the hat validation to Christianity.
Click to expand...
But didn't they hijack someone elses holiday?
 
Where's the tolerance?

example said:
I love it when fundamentalist Christians are made to look ignorant. :)
Click to expand...

Only making yourself look ignorant with that comment, bud. Perhaps Santa will bring you the balls to start debating issues and stop defaming and stereotyping the demographic groups to whom said issues pertain.
I'll be wishing you luck.
 
Hi Chia ~ actually, I am female, but I get the gist of your post. I presume that you are a fundamentalist Christian, and as such are my sworn enemy. Really, so much of the 'evil' that I've seen has come from fundamentalist Christianity . . . it's so intolerant, hostile and apocalyptic . . . I was close friends with two girls in high school who both killed themselves because they were raped and then shunned by the Four Square Baptist Church their families attended, and that's just the tip of the iceberg that is my loathing of the more 'conservative' Christian denominations. Nevertheless, Merry Christmas and my apologies if I have ruined what was shaping up to be a thoughtful and non-confrontational thread about the origins of Christmas.
 
example: I'm sorry to hear about that :(

-------------
In an attempt to keep this discussion on topic I'd suggest people take this to PM if they still have things to say - somehow I can't see how starting a new thread will help (there are already a couple of general ones focused on fundamentalists).
 
example said:
Hi Chia ~ actually, I am female, but I get the gist of your post. I presume that you are a fundamentalist Christian, and as such are my sworn enemy.
Click to expand...

Actually not a fundamentalist, Example - just sick and tired of the currently fashionable mob mentality attacks against this group. But if I were a fundamentalist, I'd be your sworn enemy? You don't know me. You don't every fundamentalist Christian. Still, you choose to stereotype. As is the case with any group, not all those labelled as fundamentalists are identical, nor do they hold identical beliefs. I live in rural Indiana and am surrounded by plenty who would call themselves Biblical fundamentalists; the vast majority of them are good, genuinely caring, compassionate and tolerant people.
Intolerance? Your post is a textbook case.
Merry Christmas to you too, w/ no sarcasm intended - I'm not trying to be purposely antagonistic here, I've just had as much as I can take of folks painting each and every so-called Christian fundamentalist with the same brush. I am truly sorry to hear about what happened to your friends, but it is still not right to assume that all conservative Christian churches would behave in the same way. This is simply not the case.
 
example said:
Hi Chia ~I presume that you are a fundamentalist Christian, and as such are my sworn enemy. .... fundamentalist Christianity . . . it's so intolerant
Click to expand...

Let's see, what exactly is that definition of intolerance again? Oh yes, here it is: "intolerant: ADJECTIVE: Not tolerant, especially: a. Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs. b. Opposed to the inclusion or participation of those different from oneself, especially those of a different racial, ethnic, or social background. c. Unable or unwilling to endure or support"

Gee who is being intolerant to whom?
 
FA,

Ever listened to the Short Wave Radio fundie stuff? It is, to say the least disturbing... I'm a great fan of the premise of 'live and let live', however, when a movement is SO politically active and, basically SO bigoted and vehement, and its done in English, it tends to have more of an effect than similar idea espoused by certain heavily breaded Arab gentlemen...

Effectively, Chritianity, should put its own house in order before trying to inflict its moral superiority on an audience who does not respond to the type of vitriol and bile the fundamentalist community, by and large, pump out. I would refer to the interested to Landover Baptist site, which, altohugh a parody, does capture they essence of what a lot (NOTE: I dont say all) fundamentalist Christians do espouse...
 
Hey, I thought we were going to let this thread reclaim itself. Chia, you have a PM from me. Fallen Angel, looks like your next.

~ ooo, I just read Hugo Cornwall's post . . . I do so want to start posting on this again . . . what to do? . . .
 
Hugo, I admit that the political activism of fundamentalists is really disheartening. As a Christian, I believe in spreading the word. I do NOT believe in ramming the word down people's throats nor using a group of followers who trust in their leaders beliefs/intentions/motivations to float a political platform, which circumvents the democratic process. However, painting all Christians as fundementalists, or being hateful towards Christians as a knee-jerk reaction is equally wrong. I understand that many people have had bad experiences with narrow minded people who use Christianity to shore up their own bigotry. But using that as justification to be intolerant in turn...that is about on par with teaching children to abhor violence by beating the concept into them.
 
Gordon Bennet people don't know when to quit.

I've split all this from the "X in Xmas" thread and merged it here so feel free to carry on your debate.

Keep the punches above the belt, avoid personal insults, digs, jibes, etc. and no baiting, flaming, etc.

Follow those guidelines and we can avoid any nastiness (like issuing warnings, etc.).
 
Fallen Angel, are you implying that I think ALL Christians are fundamentalist hatemongers? Because I never said that. Please re-read my posts and the PM I've sent you.
 
I just made up this rhyme in an effort to smooth things over:

Let's agree to disagree,
And when you're in Heaven,
And I'm in Hell,
You can pee
On me!



Whaddaya think?
 
Ah, but then it just turns to steam!

FA,
something that, to me the more moderate Christian world should do is basically deny that Fundies ARE Christians at all...
 
Hugo Cornwall said:
Ah, but then it just turns to steam!
Click to expand...
I was thinking it would help put the fire out if I were literally burning, also maybe act as a disinfectant . . .
 
Pissing on boiling suphur just causes explosive vapourisation...
 
Hugo Cornwall said:
FA,
something that, to me the more moderate Christian world should do is basically deny that Fundies ARE Christians at all...
Click to expand...

I realize the question wasn't posed towards me, but certainly a key question right now is how can (not sure how to make this sound not-pejorative) more englightened followers of different faiths in the world best oppose the extremism the seems to be a strong current (or at lleast undercurrent) in many of them these days?

A tit-for-tat ( 'They' claim theirs is the One True Faith, then 'We' do) besides being counter-productive, is probably antithesis of the message a lot of "the more moderate" Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus see themslves as proclaiming. It's one thing for me to point out that the economic policies of george W. Bush are Biblically unsupportable, but as someone who doesn't actually believe every word of the either the Nicene or Apostle's Creed, I'm not sure I'm in a position to be calling out anyone for being so unorthodox in their beliefs as to be 'non-Christian'. ;)

That being said, "the more moderate" (at times prophetic voices) have an obligation and responsibility to present a different path of being on, not only to their co-religionsists and the larger community, but for the integrity of their very faith itself. But to a disturbing degree, these voices have not done a good job of being heard and influencing the discussion.

So what are we ("the more moderate") to do these days? There are ongoing reflections on that very topic, especially since the US elections, on a lot of levels of American Christianity, and I suspect are taking place in other faith communities all over the world. Alexius has touched on this issue some in the Islamic world.

Personally, for myself, I'm not sure what to do or what the best response is regarding the contuing growth of fundamentalism among many of the world's religions (I mean even Buddhism has strains of it right now!){shrug}
 
lopaka ~ not being religiously active in any faith myself, I've no idea how to respond to your post (not qualified, I guess!) But I'm curious, do you think moderate Christianity leads to lapsing, then agnosticism? What I'm getting at is: does religious faith need to be supported by passion . . . and does moderate Christianity inspire passion in its followers?
 
Moderate Islam, when given a voice, does bascially say that the Fundie Islamics are apostates at best and borderline insane at worst (I'm sure the esteemed Alexius will correct me forthwith if that is not the case)
 
example said:
lopaka ~ not being religiously active in any faith myself, I've no idea how to respond to your post (not qualified, I guess!) But I'm curious, do you think moderate Christianity leads to lapsing, then agnosticism? What I'm getting at is: does religious faith need to be supported by passion . . . and does moderate Christianity inspire passion in its followers?
Click to expand...

Well, the position that 'moderate' (and I'm using a fairly ill-defined term here) faith has inherently less *spark* in it definitely has merit to it. It's a lot less difficult me to imagine someone 'going through the motions' at a typical Anglican service than one where speaking in tongues is featured. Almost any kind of committment to a spiritual path needs a certain amount of passion it or it does cease to exist. On the other hand, I know many, many people who, though coming down on the 'moderate' side of the continuum are very juiced about their faith.

And I don't think it can then be concluded that extremism is a likelier outcome to being a faithful, practising whatever than moderation is. (There's a thread on that topic somewhere....).

I think it may seem natural at the moment due to historical circumstances. While it's true that since the begining people have constantly said "there have never been times like this before, we've never seen such change" , I think that the world and people's day-today lives in it has changed in truly significant and profound ways in the last 50-150 years to a degree not seen since the dawn of agriculture. Just take the role of women in society . That's a huge social dislocation that has cut across all kinds of boundries: social, religious and political. (And not just confined to developed, western, *Christian* nations, either.) During times of great change and uncertainty, producing fearfulness, the idea of hearkening back to a time when (supposedly) everything was in black and white has great appeal to a lot of folks.

Complex times demand simple answers, not nuance. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top