- Joined
- Aug 21, 2001
- Messages
- 680
Sensitive? Perhaps.... but mainly because I grow weary of idealogues of one stripe bashing OTHERS as idealogues, or those with preconceived opinions re groups of folks bashing OTHERS as having bigotries. Not pointing at you here, merely reflecting on the overall tone on this board whenever certain topics (Christianity, for one) are raised...
And Annasdottir, your post STILL suggests that, absent a deity or deities, a right or wrong that transcends man, one should be no better than one has to be to insure benefits to oneself. You basically assert that the reason one should "do good" is because if we were ALL bad, we would all be worse off. Hmmm...
Take the taxes thing... you can certainly make the case that if we ALL cheated on our taxes, we would ALL be worse off for it. BUT... your "moral model" simply suggests that what I should do is campaign HARD for everyone to pay their taxes, suggest it is moral, etc, etc...and then cheat like mad MYSELF if I could get away with it. For example, if I COULD get away with not paying my school taxes after my kids graduated, I should... since my only concerns are practical.
Similarly, take your ambulance example... again, I would certainly want to campaign for everyone to respect the right of way of emergency vehicles - after all, as you correctly point out, I may need one one of these days! - BUT... I have NO reason not to cut one off, etc, when I am NOT the occupant. I just would prefer that YOU don't do so.
All you suggest is that I should not be dishonest or selfish because if EVERYONE did that, I would be worse off... the logical answer to that is that I should campaign for my neighbors to be "suckers" (of course, I would not say that openly, but would rather praise their morality, etc) while acting for MY benefit in every case I could. This is, of course, the position most "evil" or "bad" people adopt - have you ever really known a cheat, in sports, business, etc, who wasn't offended when OTHERS cheated?
So, I don't know you have really convinced me that you stand for anything except self-interest...which means that I should seek to have my neighbors be as altruistic as possible, while getting away with as much as I possibly can (while avoiding punishment and being found out!).
Shadow
And Annasdottir, your post STILL suggests that, absent a deity or deities, a right or wrong that transcends man, one should be no better than one has to be to insure benefits to oneself. You basically assert that the reason one should "do good" is because if we were ALL bad, we would all be worse off. Hmmm...
Take the taxes thing... you can certainly make the case that if we ALL cheated on our taxes, we would ALL be worse off for it. BUT... your "moral model" simply suggests that what I should do is campaign HARD for everyone to pay their taxes, suggest it is moral, etc, etc...and then cheat like mad MYSELF if I could get away with it. For example, if I COULD get away with not paying my school taxes after my kids graduated, I should... since my only concerns are practical.
Similarly, take your ambulance example... again, I would certainly want to campaign for everyone to respect the right of way of emergency vehicles - after all, as you correctly point out, I may need one one of these days! - BUT... I have NO reason not to cut one off, etc, when I am NOT the occupant. I just would prefer that YOU don't do so.
All you suggest is that I should not be dishonest or selfish because if EVERYONE did that, I would be worse off... the logical answer to that is that I should campaign for my neighbors to be "suckers" (of course, I would not say that openly, but would rather praise their morality, etc) while acting for MY benefit in every case I could. This is, of course, the position most "evil" or "bad" people adopt - have you ever really known a cheat, in sports, business, etc, who wasn't offended when OTHERS cheated?
So, I don't know you have really convinced me that you stand for anything except self-interest...which means that I should seek to have my neighbors be as altruistic as possible, while getting away with as much as I possibly can (while avoiding punishment and being found out!).
Shadow