Bigfoot / Sasquatch In North America

Coastaljames

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I think that's more likely.
 

feinman

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A composite atavistic spectre from nature's collective unconscious, reified and given manifestation by the viewer, or a big stinky mystery ape --you choose!! :cool:
 

Souleater

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I have to ask, having seen quite a few 'bigfoot expeditions' on tv where samples have been collected and analysed, coming back as 'unknown', do all of the 'unknown' samples match each other or are they all different? Do they cross reference them with other samples collected on these expeditions? The results may tell us if it is one creature or many different creatures.
 

Bigphoot2

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I have to ask, having seen quite a few 'bigfoot expeditions' on tv where samples have been collected and analysed, coming back as 'unknown', do all of the 'unknown' samples match each other or are they all different? Do they cross reference them with other samples collected on these expeditions? The results may tell us if it is one creature or many different creatures.
I get the feeling that they all want to be first to find anything so sharing would be the last thing they do
There's more about DNA and cryptids here https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...gations-discoveries-incl-sykes-ketchum.50647/
 

stu neville

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Some posts copied and some outright moved to the DNA thread linked by Bigphoot2 as above. Please keep DNA discussions to that one.
 

Sharon Hill

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I have to ask, having seen quite a few 'bigfoot expeditions' on tv where samples have been collected and analysed, coming back as 'unknown', do all of the 'unknown' samples match each other or are they all different? Do they cross reference them with other samples collected on these expeditions? The results may tell us if it is one creature or many different creatures.
Cryptozoology efforts seem really unorganized. Normally, there would be a way to log or publish your results so comparisons could be done. But, because that field isn't working in a scientific framework, that group effort doesn't happen. And, no progress gets made.
 

Bigphoot2

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Cryptozoology efforts seem really unorganized. Normally, there would be a way to log or publish your results so comparisons could be done. But, because that field isn't working in a scientific framework, that group effort doesn't happen. And, no progress gets made.
In my brief foray into that sort of thing many years ago I was left with the impression it was like the scene in The Life of Brian with the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front. There was no interest in working with other groups, quite the opposite in fact.
 

Souleater

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In my brief foray into that sort of thing many years ago I was left with the impression it was like the scene in The Life of Brian with the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front. There was no interest in working with other groups, quite the opposite in fact.
It seems to be a sort of Amundson/Scott race to the pole type situation, the investigators just want to be the ones to prove the existance on their own so that they can take all the glory, rather than a systematic collation or sharing of information for the greater good of the field.
 

Bigphoot2

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It seems to be a sort of Amundson/Scott race to the pole type situation, the investigators just want to be the ones to prove the existance on their own so that they can take all the glory, rather than a systematic collation or sharing of information for the greater good of the field.
In my experience, they spent more time fighting with each other than doing any investigative work. After that, I got into metal detecting and saw exactly the same situation there too.
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Bigfoot and Me: A Tale of Unrequited Love.

Back in the 1990s, my husband and I flew to northern California on vacation, but also to go to those rhododendron forests where bigfoot was supposed to live. I had done my research and had noted a few very specific spots I wanted to investigate. It was summer, and I thought that it would be a good idea to stake out a creek where BF would likely visit.

First, the locals had removed all the signs in the national (public) forests. We found the signs stashed behind sequoias and redwoods in several parks. And marijuana groves which gave us pause. But we soldiered on for miles and miles.
Second, the flies and biting bugs were very annoying. We had welts on our arms. But we soldiered on.
Third, there was no parking close to where we wanted to do the stakeouts, so we humped all our gear (cameras, tripods, bug spray, food, water, cognac, etc.) and soldiered on.
Fourth, we had originally allocated 3-4 days to do all this, but at the end of the first bug-ridden day, my husband wanted to stop, but I insisted we fuckin’ soldier on.

Results
No bigfoot sightings, but a few very odd disruptions of the vegetation.

In several places in the thick rhododendron forests, individual trees were pulled up by the roots and discarded 5-10 feet away from the hole. These trees were over 10 feet tall, and had trunk diameters of 8-10 inches. Big root systems. I very carefully inspected a few of these trees for bite or claw marks, or for branches with stripped away leaves, and saw nothing to indicate how they were pulled from the ground. My husband and I experimented with pulling together at a smaller tree to see if we could dislodge it. We couldn’t budge it at all. I was looking for claw or bite marks because that is how a bear or pig would dislodge a bush. Whatever had dislodged the tree was stronger than us.

It also didn’t use a shovel, because we inspected the ground around the hole and saw no evidence of this. We saw marks in the soil as if something was rooting in the hole, and had cast earth 5 feet or more away from the hole (the cast soil had dried out more than the undisrupted soil, and so was a slightly different color). I rooted around in the hole with a stick, and uncovered grubs, earthworms, and some bug with a white body that I couldn’t identify.

Not immediately near the rhododendrons, but about a quarter mile from the trees, we noticed a different specie of deciduous tree in small groves. Some of these trees had had their top branches twisted together; three to five trees in a straight line, not in a circular bunch. The trees were a few feet taller than we were (10 feet?), and the twisted tops were always higher than we could reach, let alone manipulate. Taller people than us, 6 feet tall lets say, could have done this if there were several people coordinating their efforts. We had seen these kinds of twisted together trees in southern Indiana in the deep forests, and could not imagine why anyone would bother. These trees were woven together.

Staking out the creek: for two half-days, I staked out a creek by myself. My husband had given up on the heat and uselessness of the endeavor, and went for a hike by himself. I never saw, heard, or smelt anything unusual. On the second day, my husband found me and persuaded me to give it up in favor of cold beer and air conditioning. On our walk back to the car, I casually looked down a ravine and THERE WAS BIGFOOT! I thought I was imagining things, but there it was. I was so excited, and then scared, that I became dizzy with adrenaline. I kept looking, frozen to the spot, when I realized bigfoot was really scared too as it was not moving at all. I then became worried that it would attack me if it was feeling threatened. What had I gotten my poor husband into?

Then as my eyes adjusted to the shadows in the ravine, I realized that the bigfoot shape was a big tree stump, looking remarkably like a bigfoot gazing up at the spot I was in.

Fuck bigfoot. My heart is forever broken.
 
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Sharon Hill

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Cryptozoology in the US is basically a fan convention. People love this stuff in their spare time, it makes them feel special, and they geek out at conferences where the cast of TV shows sign autographs. The latest exciting "news" is that the cast of "Finding Bigfoot" reunited and maybe will restart the series. The scholarship bar is not only on the ground, it's below ground.
 

dr wu

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Cryptozoology in the US is basically a fan convention. People love this stuff in their spare time, it makes them feel special, and they geek out at conferences where the cast of TV shows sign autographs. The latest exciting "news" is that the cast of "Finding Bigfoot" reunited and maybe will restart the series. The scholarship bar is not only on the ground, it's below ground.
Sharon,
You often talk like a scientist or one who has training in a specialized area. I'm curious how you would do an investigation into the Bigfoot phenomenon. Theoretically if you had enough money to do a proper look into it what would you do, where would you go to do it ,and who would you take with you?
btw..just an odd question but are you from Sharon Hill, PA in Delaware County...? :confused:
 
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feinman

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Sharon,
You often talk like a scientist or one who has training in a specialized area. I'm curious how you would do an investigation into the Bigfoot phenomenon. Theoretically if you had enough money to do a proper look into it what would you do, where would you go to do it ,and who would you take with you?
btw..just an odd question but are you from Sharon Hill, PA in Delaware County...? :confused:
Ha! That's what I thought about the source of her name too! :hahazebs:
Then I found her site.
 

catseye

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I was a determined unbeliever until I started reading Jeff Meldrum's 'Sasquatch, Legend Meets Science'. I am still wavering, but I find his argument, backed with all the science that can be mustered, to be persuasive.
 

dr wu

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I take bitcoin... :hahazebs: Here it is. Public, so I am posting it, Sharon:
https://sharonahill.com/
Thanks....looks like she's a 'professional debunker'............:hide:

(that was humor btw.....in case anyone didn't get it.:))

But I am looking forward to what Sharon can tell us on my question...one would think she would be in a perfect position with her background to lead a campign to find the truth on Bigfoot.
 

Sharon Hill

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Sharon,
You often talk like a scientist or one who has training in a specialized area. I'm curious how you would do an investigation into the Bigfoot phenomenon. Theoretically if you had enough money to do a proper look into it what would you do, where would you go to do it ,and who would you take with you?
btw..just an odd question but are you from Sharon Hill, PA in Delaware County...? :confused:
I'm fairly confident I've examined the primary literature on Bigfoot in the past 30 years and interacted with very knowledgeable people pro and con on the Bigfoot phenomenon. I don't think a singular creature called "Bigfoot" exists that corresponds to a "North American ape". I feel like I've been very fair as well. I can do f--- all with someone's story if there is no follow-up information. The scholarship in the past 20 years has been non-existent. I am NOT a fan of Meldrum's work as he is simply too far invested in his reputation as a Sasquatch expert. He finds it pleasing to be in that role - he's the Grover Kranz of the 21st century; his work is scientifically sloppy.

I liked what the North American Wood Ape Conservancy did in reporting from Area X. That's the way it should be done. But the response to that white paper was generally poor. Similarly, I think it's really interesting what the Olympic Project does. They may find interesting stuff. But I would wager no one will ever find Bigfoot proper because it doesn't exist. The reason why I conclude that is because various lines of evidence do not converge on Bigfoot as an answer, unfortunately. The biology, zoology, ecology, and fossil record don't point that way. And, the lack of evidence is getting worse as the technology gets better. Sure, there is a chance that eDNA will show something interesting but, again, it's almost certainly not going to be a NAPE that is at the end of this line because the sole evidence for this is footprints (which have been misidentified and hoaxed) and stories.

I'm just playing the odds. I know it sounds romantic to "hope" but, effectively, Bigfoot doesn't exist. Every day that goes by, when no one finds it, takes us ever farther from Bigfoot as reality. It's absurd to believe based on the evidence (and everyone really does agree to this or there would be no need to push qualifiers* about Bigfoot sightings), so people believe for other reasons.

To "look into it", it makes no sense to aim to find a Bigfoot. That's actually not the proper framing of the question because it assumes too much. The REAL question is what are people "seeing" when they claim to have a Bigfoot experience. That is a perpetually interesting question and has way more than one answer. Bigfoot is a cultural subject, not a zoological one. As my friend Daniel Loxton once called the current field, this is post-cryptid cryptozoology. There is no zoological thing but the cultural aspects grow ever more powerful and alluring. If it was my choice how to define cryptozoology, including Bigfoot studies, it would be based on folklore and human psychology, with just a bit of wildlife biology in it. I certainly recognize that it will not be like that and that view is unpopular. But, to me, that's the reasonable path that would be the most productive to explain the Bigfoot phenomenon.

*"You may think I'm crazy but...." "I used to be a skeptic until..." "Too many people have claimed to see it..."
 

monkeyfudger

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In my experience, they spent more time fighting with each other than doing any investigative work. After that, I got into metal detecting and saw exactly the same situation there too.
Unfortunately that is true of most of human activity.
 

monkeyfudger

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@Sharon Hill I too liked what NAWAC did with their Area X stuff and report. Sadly they have not produced much since. If they are not seeing and experiencing bigfoot activity, then what is your best guess to explain their experiences?
Also, with regard to Prof Meldrum, could you expand on what is scientifically sloppy in his work? As a non-scientist layperson reading his work, it would be good to hear some specifics from another scientist.

Thanks
 

Kondoru

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I still want to know what makes the tracks.

If there is tracks...something made them. Fakes are a possibility but I suspect easily detected.
 

Bigphoot2

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It's also pretty spiffy until Bigfoot shows up. Nasty smell he's supposed to have, clears out the room.
A friend in America has often raised the issue of Bigfoot's smell - how can a predator catch anything if the prey can smell it from miles away?
 
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