A
Anonymous
Guest
I know! That was a little " in-joke" as it would be as useless as finding real testiment from real and respected scientists on the authenticity of Meier's UFO evidence in a pro-believer way. :lol:
A
Anonymous
Guest
...Oh sod it! I'm going to get some 35mm film stock for my SLR in a couple of weeks and show how piss easy it is to replicate his photographs..(Well some of them anyway, and set in the Yorkshire back set!)
I've had enough of this! Ho ho...Anyone care to join in? (I don't mean with me, I mean to do the same thing. If enough of us do it, we can show them once and for all!)
As an aside...isn't the whole Meiere thing a cult religion type thing? This would be reason enough for them to perpetuate it and turn it into propaganda.
I've had enough of this! Ho ho...Anyone care to join in? (I don't mean with me, I mean to do the same thing. If enough of us do it, we can show them once and for all!)
As an aside...isn't the whole Meiere thing a cult religion type thing? This would be reason enough for them to perpetuate it and turn it into propaganda.
WRT the 'tampering' with the dinosaur photos - one wonders why whoever did this simply didn't do the same thing with Meier's 'UFO' photos... As usual with such conspiracies, those involved in the alleged hatchet job seem curiously inept.
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Michael812 said:
OK I'll add this into one of my batches of interlibrary loans - is this it though?:
www.galactic-server.com/rune/stewens.html
www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_meier6.htm
Because if so it doesn't appear to mention metal samples.
For those intersted the second link also has a good gallery of pictures including three at the right of Asket and Nera lookalike "maliciously forged by MiB"
Michael812 said:
I'm afraid that scientists require more than a video to go on - usually it requires a detailled rport preferably publsihed in a peer review journal or by a well respected body. This is then just he start of scientific investigations - crucial factors include reproducibility of the results in different labs for example. However, the video would be a start.
I can't find this video on your site is it in the DVD you are selling?
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This is a lengthy analysis of Korff's book on Billy Meier which contains information on the hoaxes as well as a restatement of the get out clause (its about half way down):
http://meiercase.0x2a.info/meiercase/temp/
http://meiercase.0x2a.info/meiercase/temp/
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Emperor said:
Good link, Emps
I came across those pictures myself when looking for images of 'Semjase' but curiously, according to my search results at least, she and 'Asket' are one and the same - is the alleged 'Semjase' pic referred to earlier in the thread available anywhere on the web?WRT the 'wedding cake' UFO picture, the example on display at bibliotecapleyades site is much clearer than another pointed at by a previous link. You can see it here: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/meir/ ... /f0829.jpg
To my (somewhat experienced) eye, this still looks like a model that's positioned between the camera and the rest of the scene. The main problem is with the focus involved, in comparison with the 'UFO' and the background, which seems consistent with an object which is much smaller than has been claimed.
To my (somewhat experienced) eye, this still looks like a model that's positioned between the camera and the rest of the scene. The main problem is with the focus involved, in comparison with the 'UFO' and the background, which seems consistent with an object which is much smaller than has been claimed.
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More on the Asket-Nera hoaxes.
Basically when it was found out that the pictures were going to be revealed as a haox a series of statements were released.
The main statements about them from the same Bullettin are only available online in the German - here are the Babelfish links:
Babelfish translation
Babelfish translation
but this page from Rense has a betetr translation:
www.rense.com/ufo/meierfraud2.htm
See also:
http://members.tripod.com/~A_U_R_A/Meierhoax.html
Basically when it was found out that the pictures were going to be revealed as a haox a series of statements were released.
The main statements about them from the same Bullettin are only available online in the German - here are the Babelfish links:
Babelfish translation
Babelfish translation
but this page from Rense has a betetr translation:
www.rense.com/ufo/meierfraud2.htm
See also:
http://members.tripod.com/~A_U_R_A/Meierhoax.html
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Again, thanks for the links Emps I was aware of the Aliens/Dean Martin Dancers debate (something which could be resolved very easily, surely?) but it was this image: -
which has especially intrigued me and which I'm keen to see...
I was aware of the Aliens/Dean Martin Dancers debate (something which could be resolved very easily, surely?) but it was this image: -which has especially intrigued me and which I'm keen to see...
A
Anonymous
Guest
There are no photographs of Semjase, as claimed by Korff, whose critique has been thoroughly shredded by both Deardorff and Jansen, as previously noted.
And so the explanations provided to and by Meier are not sufficient for you since, of course, in your perfect world, nothing of the sort could be true. Obviously that would mean that all of Meier's photos, including sequence shots of up to four craft, all of his films and video, which you haven't seen yet, the sound recordings that you claim to be able to reproduce, the metal samples that must be irrelevant because you didn't get to personal see/analyze them, everything the experts said, including David Froning's comments that he made at a presentation of mine...all of this is simply bogus and irrelevant. I see. (The video with Vogel's analysis is titled "The Metal" at www.theyfly.com and I included a couple of minutes of his conclusions on my DVD.)
In 1975, when Meier's official contacts began (meaning the ones in which he would transcribe and then publicly disseminate the contents) he was to not only number each contact but to number each sentence spoken by any of the extraterrestrials who were speaking with him. When he asked why, he was told that in future times he would be accussed of being a hoaxer and falsifier of information (as well as of his physical evidence, as is done here) and it would be necessary to have the numbering in place as a means of establishing the authenticity of the material, through continuity and by making it effectively impossible to insert or delete information at a later time.
Meier commenced and has maintained this simple but effective method for the last 30 years, starting with the first mimeographed copies that were disseminated in Europe and first caught the attention of investigators there and then Lt. Col. Stevens in the U.S. The examples I have posted are but a relative few. There are books in German that have dozens and dozens that were confirmed AFTER the foretold events occurred.
I suggest going to this link and reading both some of the examples I noted and the second version of the Henoch Prophecies (the first being from 1981, which I read in 1986):
http://nexusmagazine.com/articles/Henoc ... ecies.html
Now if it's true that this information (and much more) was given to and published by Meier before the events occurred, I wonder if you'll come up with an ORIGINAL explanation that debunks it. Just to recap that which is already established, the informaion was published first in unalterable documents in German, then in various English translations. It was also published in copyrighted books by Wendelle Stevens (I have the entire set).
Perhaps I'm naive but I'm unaware of how Meier could insert information after the fact in books and documents that I have possessed since 1986, I'm sure the deep thinkers here will explain it to me. A little item like Meier's transcribing, publishing and disseminating specific accurate information regarding Jupiter (as well as Venus, Saturn and the planes beyond Pluto) many months before official discovery (just like all of you here did, right?) must have a simple explanation.
So, while we await the next hatchet job, let me also venture a guess that neither the "duplicated" photos nor the sound recordings, that you are certainly going to produce to back up YOUR claims will pass the same levels of scrutiny and test parameters as Meier's did. And let me also venture a guess that none of you here will publish 60 or so specific, detailed predictive items ranging from a few weeks to years in advance.
But then again, since everyone has caught on to how Meier "faked" everything, I may be mistaken.
And so the explanations provided to and by Meier are not sufficient for you since, of course, in your perfect world, nothing of the sort could be true. Obviously that would mean that all of Meier's photos, including sequence shots of up to four craft, all of his films and video, which you haven't seen yet, the sound recordings that you claim to be able to reproduce, the metal samples that must be irrelevant because you didn't get to personal see/analyze them, everything the experts said, including David Froning's comments that he made at a presentation of mine...all of this is simply bogus and irrelevant. I see. (The video with Vogel's analysis is titled "The Metal" at www.theyfly.com and I included a couple of minutes of his conclusions on my DVD.)
In 1975, when Meier's official contacts began (meaning the ones in which he would transcribe and then publicly disseminate the contents) he was to not only number each contact but to number each sentence spoken by any of the extraterrestrials who were speaking with him. When he asked why, he was told that in future times he would be accussed of being a hoaxer and falsifier of information (as well as of his physical evidence, as is done here) and it would be necessary to have the numbering in place as a means of establishing the authenticity of the material, through continuity and by making it effectively impossible to insert or delete information at a later time.
Meier commenced and has maintained this simple but effective method for the last 30 years, starting with the first mimeographed copies that were disseminated in Europe and first caught the attention of investigators there and then Lt. Col. Stevens in the U.S. The examples I have posted are but a relative few. There are books in German that have dozens and dozens that were confirmed AFTER the foretold events occurred.
I suggest going to this link and reading both some of the examples I noted and the second version of the Henoch Prophecies (the first being from 1981, which I read in 1986):
http://nexusmagazine.com/articles/Henoc ... ecies.html
Now if it's true that this information (and much more) was given to and published by Meier before the events occurred, I wonder if you'll come up with an ORIGINAL explanation that debunks it. Just to recap that which is already established, the informaion was published first in unalterable documents in German, then in various English translations. It was also published in copyrighted books by Wendelle Stevens (I have the entire set).
Perhaps I'm naive but I'm unaware of how Meier could insert information after the fact in books and documents that I have possessed since 1986, I'm sure the deep thinkers here will explain it to me. A little item like Meier's transcribing, publishing and disseminating specific accurate information regarding Jupiter (as well as Venus, Saturn and the planes beyond Pluto) many months before official discovery (just like all of you here did, right?) must have a simple explanation.
So, while we await the next hatchet job, let me also venture a guess that neither the "duplicated" photos nor the sound recordings, that you are certainly going to produce to back up YOUR claims will pass the same levels of scrutiny and test parameters as Meier's did. And let me also venture a guess that none of you here will publish 60 or so specific, detailed predictive items ranging from a few weeks to years in advance.
But then again, since everyone has caught on to how Meier "faked" everything, I may be mistaken.
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In fact lots of sites have similar information, so it's hardly a breath-taking 'prophecy'. (More like splitting hairs, in fact!)
I repeat:
Chimborazo is the highest mountain in the world if you measure from the center of the Earth instead of measuring from sea level.
So Semjase's info was incorrect anyway!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Apparently rynner is so desperate for this to be wrong that he misses the obvious regarding the following:
• Jonestown massacre (Nov 18, 1978)
• Overthrow of the Shah of Iran (Jan 1979)
• Chinese invasion of North Vietnam (Feb–Mar 1979)
• Iran Hostage Crisis (Nov 1979–Jan 1981)
• Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (Dec 1979)
• Terrorist attack on Iranian Embassy, London (Apr–May 1980)
• Abdication of Queen Juliana of The Netherlands (Apr 1980)
• Death of Tito of Yugoslavia (May 4, 1980)
• Mount St Helens eruption (May 18, 1980)
• Assassination of Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi (Oct 31, 1984).
All of these were given to and published by Meier on October 19, 1978, which certainly appears to me to be before the dates of occurrence. Further, they were ALL in the possession of Wendelle Stevens on March 9, 1979.
As I said, I'm sure that you will come up with original "reasons" as to how Meier accomplished this kind of "hoax".
Next.
• Jonestown massacre (Nov 18, 1978)
• Overthrow of the Shah of Iran (Jan 1979)
• Chinese invasion of North Vietnam (Feb–Mar 1979)
• Iran Hostage Crisis (Nov 1979–Jan 1981)
• Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (Dec 1979)
• Terrorist attack on Iranian Embassy, London (Apr–May 1980)
• Abdication of Queen Juliana of The Netherlands (Apr 1980)
• Death of Tito of Yugoslavia (May 4, 1980)
• Mount St Helens eruption (May 18, 1980)
• Assassination of Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi (Oct 31, 1984).
All of these were given to and published by Meier on October 19, 1978, which certainly appears to me to be before the dates of occurrence. Further, they were ALL in the possession of Wendelle Stevens on March 9, 1979.
As I said, I'm sure that you will come up with original "reasons" as to how Meier accomplished this kind of "hoax".
Next.
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rynner said:
If you find a bookmaker who will, please let me know...
A
Anonymous
Guest
Perhaps one might w begin to understand the nature and intensity of the campaign against Meier, the (documented) assassination attempts, the intense debunking of his still irreproducible physical evidence by Korff and friends.
If this really isn't so much about UFOs and ETs, the "now-that-we-have-your-attention" mechanism, and more about little old us and our collectively brainwashed, cultic, religious, pathetically political, non-thinking, non-self-responsible mindset and how willingly we allow ourselves to be manipulated by the powers that be, is it really any wonder that that more energy will be put into "debunking" it than actually examining to see what the truth is?
As for the WTC prediction, unfortunately I only picked that up in 2002 when it was first (publicly) released. It, and a few other things, weren't in the 1981 version that I first acquired in 1986. Of course, there were plenty of things that were/are in both versions, and in the other material that I acquired at that time from 1975-1978 that first led me to start to note the presence and accuracy of the prophetic information. And I'm surprised that the obvious question hasn't been raised regarding the predictions (things that will happen with certaity, as oppossed to prophecies, which are alterable if acted upon in time): Isn't there a huge amount of erroneous predictive information? No. If so, I sure haven't found it. And there's toms more even in English that has so far all checked out.
No need for me to defend it, make of it what you will. But I will add a little note from my own perspective as to why I think that both the U.S. and England will fall as predicted. One of the fundamental laws of the universe is the law of cause and effect. No matter how much "spin" is given to acts of aggression and state sponsored terrorism, such as our two contries are engaged in under the guise of fighting a war on terrorism, the law cannot be fooled or tricked away, the pendulum returns, inevitably, in its own timing.
Humanity demonstrates its painful, self-imposed ignorance and abyssmal stupidity in its denial of "the way things work", which, contrary to our beliefs, doesn't make it all just go away. The Plejaren mission has been centered around attempting, in an oblique and non-interferring manner, through a seemingly unlikely mediator, to assist us to assure our future survival and to go through some of the inevitable changes as painlessly as possible while helping us to avoid some of the things that may still be (or have been) changeable.
In their own opinion, the Plejaren have, unfortunately, failed to a large degree. Saturated with armchair know-it-alls and self-satisified materialists, we're simply too "smart" to be taken in by such things, or to be bothered and inconvenienced by actually having to think, collect and gather information and evidence and use the same kind of reasonning that might be applied in a legal matter, i.e. preponderance of evidence, circumstantial evidence, expert testimony, motive, opportunity, etc.
Nope, we're too smart for that. It's far easier to sit back and throw darts and mentally masturbate ourselves out of the building tension of uncertainty.
And, of course, should any of you trouble yourselves to read the Talmud of Jmmanuel (www.tjresearch.info), discovered in 1963, translated by 1970 and first published around 1974, you'll undoubtedly have further explanations as to how specific prophecies contained in the original 2,000 year-old document could possibly have also occurred after the book was in print, let alone when first writtena nd discovered.
It's really all the more pathetic and worthy of embarrassment that their method involved using a one-armed man, to whom incredible abilities of deception and actual genius are attributed instead of even reasonable conclusions in light of the volume and magnitude of the entire matter.
So let's get with it, let's take the next shot and, hey, what about those phony dinosaur photos anyway?
If this really isn't so much about UFOs and ETs, the "now-that-we-have-your-attention" mechanism, and more about little old us and our collectively brainwashed, cultic, religious, pathetically political, non-thinking, non-self-responsible mindset and how willingly we allow ourselves to be manipulated by the powers that be, is it really any wonder that that more energy will be put into "debunking" it than actually examining to see what the truth is?
As for the WTC prediction, unfortunately I only picked that up in 2002 when it was first (publicly) released. It, and a few other things, weren't in the 1981 version that I first acquired in 1986. Of course, there were plenty of things that were/are in both versions, and in the other material that I acquired at that time from 1975-1978 that first led me to start to note the presence and accuracy of the prophetic information. And I'm surprised that the obvious question hasn't been raised regarding the predictions (things that will happen with certaity, as oppossed to prophecies, which are alterable if acted upon in time): Isn't there a huge amount of erroneous predictive information? No. If so, I sure haven't found it. And there's toms more even in English that has so far all checked out.
No need for me to defend it, make of it what you will. But I will add a little note from my own perspective as to why I think that both the U.S. and England will fall as predicted. One of the fundamental laws of the universe is the law of cause and effect. No matter how much "spin" is given to acts of aggression and state sponsored terrorism, such as our two contries are engaged in under the guise of fighting a war on terrorism, the law cannot be fooled or tricked away, the pendulum returns, inevitably, in its own timing.
Humanity demonstrates its painful, self-imposed ignorance and abyssmal stupidity in its denial of "the way things work", which, contrary to our beliefs, doesn't make it all just go away. The Plejaren mission has been centered around attempting, in an oblique and non-interferring manner, through a seemingly unlikely mediator, to assist us to assure our future survival and to go through some of the inevitable changes as painlessly as possible while helping us to avoid some of the things that may still be (or have been) changeable.
In their own opinion, the Plejaren have, unfortunately, failed to a large degree. Saturated with armchair know-it-alls and self-satisified materialists, we're simply too "smart" to be taken in by such things, or to be bothered and inconvenienced by actually having to think, collect and gather information and evidence and use the same kind of reasonning that might be applied in a legal matter, i.e. preponderance of evidence, circumstantial evidence, expert testimony, motive, opportunity, etc.
Nope, we're too smart for that. It's far easier to sit back and throw darts and mentally masturbate ourselves out of the building tension of uncertainty.
And, of course, should any of you trouble yourselves to read the Talmud of Jmmanuel (www.tjresearch.info), discovered in 1963, translated by 1970 and first published around 1974, you'll undoubtedly have further explanations as to how specific prophecies contained in the original 2,000 year-old document could possibly have also occurred after the book was in print, let alone when first writtena nd discovered.
It's really all the more pathetic and worthy of embarrassment that their method involved using a one-armed man, to whom incredible abilities of deception and actual genius are attributed instead of even reasonable conclusions in light of the volume and magnitude of the entire matter.
So let's get with it, let's take the next shot and, hey, what about those phony dinosaur photos anyway?
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Michael812 said:
It doesn't have to be perfect but it has to be plausible. As you have so much invested in Meier let me phrase it in a more hypothetical manner:
1. A man has a series of pictures of fantastical scenes which he has distributed for years.
2. When he gets a whiff of the fact that some of these images are about to be revelaed as fakes he remembers a conversation with a mysterious entity years previously that they were faked.
Now would you find that plausible?
And "But look at the stuff people haven't been able to prove is a fake yet!!" isn't addressing the question.
Michael812 said:
Ah right - the one you are selling for $25?
www.theyfly.com/products.htm
Michael812 said:
Which makes me wonder how he managed to forget such important information as "some of those photos have been faked."
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graylien said:
Sorry for not replying to this before - I suppose the recreating them isn't to prove they are fake or not but to prove if they are reproducible or not. As there are claims (from both Believers and, in the case of the photos mentioned and addressed in the FT 197 article, the Skeptics) that they aren't reproducible then the first step would be to test that claim and thats what Alan Friswell did with the models.
Timble2
Imaginary Person
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Don't you see the credibility problem with this statement?
Yes, the Talmud of Jmmanuel, another case where all the original and irrefutable evidence has gone missing.
Just a question, is there actually a "J" in Aramaic or Hebrew?
Oh, and why the Edward Albert pseudonym?
A
Anonymous
Guest
A few final thoughts before I move on.
A careful reading of the Meier material will reveal that he suffered a rather severe head/brain injury in the 1980s that prevented him from transcribing many contacts at that time. There are literally thousands of pages of information in this case transcribed, single-handedly (literally) by Meier. If you are troubled by a human being having some problems with memory, or in any other way that doesn't meet your stringent standards of truthfulness, if you ignore the actual parameters for duplicating the photos, and not simply the "effect", as the skeptics attempted to claim, then I can't help you there either. If hundreds of clear daytime photos with multiple craft, etc., etc., etc. aren't sufficient to PROVOKE THINKING then so be it.
As far as the video, yes, that's right, $25 (US). The same one that I bought for that price when I was interested enough to want to know more about the case. But I should tell you that it's in VHS format and not PAL and would have to be transferred to that system. A small clip of Vogel's conclusions, as well as the film clip the skeptics didn't even try to duplicate and a video in which Meier zooms about 300' across an open field in on a 14' UFO hovering by a tree, are all on the DVD, which plays universally.
If you don't know, I divide the case into that which is speculative and that which is factual. I submit that there is sufficient factual proof in the physical evidence, and in the higher standard of proof, to claim that the case is authentic far beyond a reasonable doubt. I do not say that everything in the case is true as I have no way of knowing, many foretold events haven't occurred and we don't as yet have a means to check out the accuracy of the past historical information either. But the complete absence of to be expected volumes of erroneous information, unlucky guesses, etc. is absolutely stunning. There are three incidents that I found in the material where the events foretold took place at a different time than the Plejaren had anticipated, i.e. the fall of the Berlin Wall, the death of Reagan (who they said would be one of the people to contribute to bringing about WWIII) ad the death of the last Pope.
The case differs from a "religion" in very important ways. Religions rest on the childishly nonsensical, painfully idiotic and completely inadmissible premise that "what's in this book is true...because the book says it's true." Please! And billions of people have, and continue to, drink that Kool-Aid. On the other hand, the Meier case contains the most voluminous, specific, prophetically accurate body of information that I am aware of. It proves its authenticity without the need for any beliefs whatsoever. Religions are built on beliefs, faith, fear, superstitions, rituals, giving away one's power to an (often vengeful, menacing) God, angels, saints, and other outside forces, etc., etc.
There is no such nonsense connected to this case, though, in the past, the prophets in this lineage and their teachings were corrupted into religions. We are being encouraged to leave behind the age of beliefs for the age of knowledge and wisdom. This is also said to be an 800-year mission, with another 700+ years to go, if we use Meier's life in the timeline. It also kind of reaffirms the perception that people will not "get it" in time to avoid a whole lot of hurt but that, ultimately, it will work itself out.
As for originals for the TJ, two things. Please first produce the "originals" for the Old and New Testament. Take your time. Second, once you deign to familiarize yourself with it (perhaps after you've exhausted your handful of darts) you'll find that, again, the prophetically accurate information (hint: how did a man 2,000 years ago know about the Kuwait oil fires, which also happened about 16 years AFTER the book was in print?) trumps the argument.
As for pseudonyms, may I suggest you read a little bit and not embarrass yourself by revealing how shallowly you've perused the material?
I have much to do now and may not be able to insert comments as often as I'd like. But really, everything you need to find out the truth about the case is available to you, most of it for free, just requiring time and interest on one's part. In case you didn't already find it, there's the Swiss site at: www.figu/us (for English language readers, the master site is www.figu.org)
Believing that something is true or false is irrelevant to whether it is. I guarantee that if you reasonably conclude that the case is true you will still find plenty of things to disturb or even offend you.
I sincerely thank everyone here, especially those who are adversarial to the case (hey, is that everyone but me?) as it helps to bring forth different elements of the case that need more exposure and some that I may have forgotten about or not focused on that recently. I've informed some other people who are studying the case about this for too and perhaps some will jump in and make comments.
Again, this is either the biggest, most impenetrable hoax or the most important story in all of human history. Time will tell.
Best.
A careful reading of the Meier material will reveal that he suffered a rather severe head/brain injury in the 1980s that prevented him from transcribing many contacts at that time. There are literally thousands of pages of information in this case transcribed, single-handedly (literally) by Meier. If you are troubled by a human being having some problems with memory, or in any other way that doesn't meet your stringent standards of truthfulness, if you ignore the actual parameters for duplicating the photos, and not simply the "effect", as the skeptics attempted to claim, then I can't help you there either. If hundreds of clear daytime photos with multiple craft, etc., etc., etc. aren't sufficient to PROVOKE THINKING then so be it.
As far as the video, yes, that's right, $25 (US). The same one that I bought for that price when I was interested enough to want to know more about the case. But I should tell you that it's in VHS format and not PAL and would have to be transferred to that system. A small clip of Vogel's conclusions, as well as the film clip the skeptics didn't even try to duplicate and a video in which Meier zooms about 300' across an open field in on a 14' UFO hovering by a tree, are all on the DVD, which plays universally.
If you don't know, I divide the case into that which is speculative and that which is factual. I submit that there is sufficient factual proof in the physical evidence, and in the higher standard of proof, to claim that the case is authentic far beyond a reasonable doubt. I do not say that everything in the case is true as I have no way of knowing, many foretold events haven't occurred and we don't as yet have a means to check out the accuracy of the past historical information either. But the complete absence of to be expected volumes of erroneous information, unlucky guesses, etc. is absolutely stunning. There are three incidents that I found in the material where the events foretold took place at a different time than the Plejaren had anticipated, i.e. the fall of the Berlin Wall, the death of Reagan (who they said would be one of the people to contribute to bringing about WWIII) ad the death of the last Pope.
The case differs from a "religion" in very important ways. Religions rest on the childishly nonsensical, painfully idiotic and completely inadmissible premise that "what's in this book is true...because the book says it's true." Please! And billions of people have, and continue to, drink that Kool-Aid. On the other hand, the Meier case contains the most voluminous, specific, prophetically accurate body of information that I am aware of. It proves its authenticity without the need for any beliefs whatsoever. Religions are built on beliefs, faith, fear, superstitions, rituals, giving away one's power to an (often vengeful, menacing) God, angels, saints, and other outside forces, etc., etc.
There is no such nonsense connected to this case, though, in the past, the prophets in this lineage and their teachings were corrupted into religions. We are being encouraged to leave behind the age of beliefs for the age of knowledge and wisdom. This is also said to be an 800-year mission, with another 700+ years to go, if we use Meier's life in the timeline. It also kind of reaffirms the perception that people will not "get it" in time to avoid a whole lot of hurt but that, ultimately, it will work itself out.
As for originals for the TJ, two things. Please first produce the "originals" for the Old and New Testament. Take your time. Second, once you deign to familiarize yourself with it (perhaps after you've exhausted your handful of darts) you'll find that, again, the prophetically accurate information (hint: how did a man 2,000 years ago know about the Kuwait oil fires, which also happened about 16 years AFTER the book was in print?) trumps the argument.
As for pseudonyms, may I suggest you read a little bit and not embarrass yourself by revealing how shallowly you've perused the material?
I have much to do now and may not be able to insert comments as often as I'd like. But really, everything you need to find out the truth about the case is available to you, most of it for free, just requiring time and interest on one's part. In case you didn't already find it, there's the Swiss site at: www.figu/us (for English language readers, the master site is www.figu.org)
Believing that something is true or false is irrelevant to whether it is. I guarantee that if you reasonably conclude that the case is true you will still find plenty of things to disturb or even offend you.
I sincerely thank everyone here, especially those who are adversarial to the case (hey, is that everyone but me?) as it helps to bring forth different elements of the case that need more exposure and some that I may have forgotten about or not focused on that recently. I've informed some other people who are studying the case about this for too and perhaps some will jump in and make comments.
Again, this is either the biggest, most impenetrable hoax or the most important story in all of human history. Time will tell.
Best.
Timble2
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There's at least fragmentary evidence in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Oxyrhynchus Papyrii, there are Hebrew and Latin texts...all we have for TJ is Mr Meiers.
In this case it's different because Mr Meiers says it's true.
BTW: I was just wondering why he'd misplaced his surname in India. Funny how a lot of his photos were stolen.
Graylien
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Emperor said:
...And a very fine job he made of it too. But did he actually change anyones mind? Did the article give any of Meiers supporters pause for thought? And is it worth the time of serious UFO researchers to even bother investigating these types of cases?
The history of UFO contactee cults appears to demonstrate that the more you challenge their beliefs, the closer knit they become. I would suggest that Meier would still have a loyal following even if he had never produced any photos, simply because he is a charismatic man promoting a belief system which (for whatever reason) fulfills a spiritual hunger in his followers. Attacking the photos will not discourage Meiers followers in the least because it is not actually the photos that they believe in - it is the man himself.
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graylien said:
Well again that comes down to one's objectives - the Skpetics already know they can't be real and the Believers well... believe. Luckily there is a lot of people in the middle ground and claims like "this can't be reproduced" leads to a number of potential reactions:
1. Blimey then it must be true!!
2. Hmmmmm - well lets see then shall we.
etc.
Things were stuck in a rut with the Skeptics saying "they can be easily faked" and the Believers saying "well go on fake them then!!!" so it was time to move things on and thats what I think he article has helped do. At least for us in the middleground. I have emailed IIG (and Randi
) and passed along a message for Alan Friswell and it would be interesting to see their take on things too. Everyone has different aims in this kind of thing but the (successful) attempts to fake Meier's UFOs weren't aimed at convincing anyone one way or ther other (as far as I can tell - I'm sure Alan would phrase it diffrently) it was to test the claims that they couldn't be faked. You can draw your own conclusions and inferences from that.
Timble2
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A
Anonymous
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Oh the third world war has been coming since the early 60s.
Aren't we, as humans...completely stubborn and complaicent in thinking that if any highly evolved alien species were to contact the Earth, they would go to us?
I'd favour communal insects like Bees. wasps, ants and Chavvies! lol!
Aren't we, as humans...completely stubborn and complaicent in thinking that if any highly evolved alien species were to contact the Earth, they would go to us?
I'd favour communal insects like Bees. wasps, ants and Chavvies! lol!