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"Chariots Of The Gods" BBC NOVA Program

In the Bible there are many references to flying machines.

When Ezekiel and Moses see the "glory of God" in Hebrew there is the term KAVOD, which means Battle Armament.

In the Bibles we have at home Moses asks God to see his Glory, in Hebrew his "Battle Armament" In the bible the "glory" is clearly described as something that flies and produces a low and subdued noise, as when it is seen to rise up near the temple of Jerusalem. The problem is the translation from Hebrew.

In the Bible there is not a single term that makes sense of God as we know it, in fact the Bible never speaks of God. It tells of a pact between one of the Elohim called "Jahweh" and one of Abraham's descendants, Isaac.

Then the Bible does not speak of a pact with humanity, but a pact between a family and their lord who had received as a dowry those people.
 
The problem with Von Daniken is that most of his observations are interpretative rather than factual. He'll point to ancient cave drawings of people with large round heads, for instance, and instantly conclude they must be astronauts wearing bubble helmets.

I don't agree that he is necessarily a liar. He loves to speculate and conjecture and throw a lot of ideas out there. What he does not do is back up his comments with carefully detailed research.

When I was young I was very inspired by Chariots of the Gods but, with time, I learned to accept Von Daniken for what he really is -- a fascinating impresario who is almost always entertaining but not always reliable.
 
I don't agree that he is necessarily a liar.
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But he has admitted, with some pride, that he is a liar. He said that large sections of The Gold of the Gods was untrue, but were instead something he called dramaturgische Effekte (theatrical effects). Von Daniken claimed to have seen, with his own eyes, 'mounds of gold' in a cave, but this was nothing more than dramaturgische Effekte - i.e. a lie.
 
He's also been corrected many times in the past. There's something to be said for telling a good story, I suppose But it isn't a good story, as shown by anytime they try to use it in a Hollywood film.
 
eburacum said:
Yes, but we live on a world where only one chirality of sugars and proteins is extant. Perhaps there were mirror-image organisms in the early biosphere, but they died out; we only need to eat food with one set of steroisomers in the current era, because that is all that occurs naturally here.
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Your position is a well reasoned one, but I haven't found any species that aren't homochiral in the literature. If you can find them please post the info. I would be very grateful. Guaranteed like and follow.
 
I am fairly sure that no specimens of life with the opposite eniantomers to ourselves have existed on this planet for at least 500 million years. The chirality of any organism from that long ago would not have been preserved. Perhaps the Ediacaran biota had mirror-image biochemistry; I somehow doubt it, but that might explain why they died out (they might have found themselves surrounded by inedible proteins and sugars, as the current biosphere took over).

More likely we will need to travel to other planets and other stars to find biospheres with alternate biochemistries, although Carol Cleland and Sheryl Copley think we might find evidence here on Earth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_biosphere
 
Shadowsot said:
Current work tends to treat the Aztecs treating the Spanish as gods as propaganda. The issue with your idea above is its flatly untestable. But we know religions arise spontaneously. They still do. And powers of flight and sky beings still have a hold on our cuckture and media. Super heroes, scifi, and even the most scientifically minded believer tends to link god to the heavens and the devil being down below.
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That is quite correct, and when I studied this at uni, that is the line of assumption we were encouraged to pursue. On closer inspection however the Aztecs and their concept of divinity wasn't like those of Europeans, even in the ancient and classical era. Aztec legends, for example speak about the god Tezcatlipoca coming to earth as a Tabascan slave (very low status enemy considered lazy peaceable good-for-nothings) with a very large penis, who proceeded to make merry havoc in the royal court and destroy a dynasty. The notion that the beards of the Spaniards were seen as symbolic of the "feathers" of Quetzalcoatl, their metal equipment and the appearance of horses and war hounds, all of which were alien to Aztec experience could easily have led them to think the Spaniards were deities, at least initially. A great deal of coverage was made in the period literature about the prophecies and bad omens in the Aztec Empire prior to the arrival of Cortez, culminating in the revenge of the abandoned, despised and enslaved princess Malinal becoming the primary translator for the Spanish. Malinal was born on a forbidden day, and was thus bound in fate to the similarly despised goddess Camaxtli. I would suggest that when the Spanish were chased out of Tenochtitlan, that the illusion of divinity was gone however.

I got a giggle out of your Alt-Right spelling of "culture" too so I added the extra "c" to make the typo even better.
 
I don't agree that he is necessarily a liar. He loves to speculate and conjecture and throw a lot of ideas out there. What he does not do is back up his comments with carefully detailed research.
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I think all this about aliens and ancient civilizations is quite out there. There are no ancient accomplishments given enough time and engineering - intelligence that man hasn't built.
As for speculation on the Bible well you either believe or don't. But wild interpretations trying to make sense out of these type of writing from a scientific standpoint can be very trying to say the least.
 
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the bible is full of technology.

the kavod of yhaweh, his battle armament, which Moses demands to see before accepting to serve yhaweh. in our bibles the kavod becomes the glory of God.

the "Ephod" worn by some priests, David when he wanted to talk with God, he had the "Ephod" worn, which was not an ornament, was worn under his clothes, every stone allowed to speak with a tribe of Israel.

the cherubim that are mechanical constructs, as the Jews know perfectly through the Talmud, and also the same ark of the alliance that generated electricity.
 
AlchoPwn said:
That is quite correct, and when I studied this at uni, that is the line of assumption we were encouraged to pursue. On closer inspection however the Aztecs and their concept of divinity wasn't like those of Europeans, even in the ancient and classical era. Aztec legends, for example speak about the god Tezcatlipoca coming to earth as a Tabascan slave (very low status enemy considered lazy peaceable good-for-nothings) with a very large penis, who proceeded to make merry havoc in the royal court and destroy a dynasty. The notion that the beards of the Spaniards were seen as symbolic of the "feathers" of Quetzalcoatl, their metal equipment and the appearance of horses and war hounds, all of which were alien to Aztec experience could easily have led them to think the Spaniards were deities, at least initially. A great deal of coverage was made in the period literature about the prophecies and bad omens in the Aztec Empire prior to the arrival of Cortez, culminating in the revenge of the abandoned, despised and enslaved princess Malinal becoming the primary translator for the Spanish. Malinal was born on a forbidden day, and was thus bound in fate to the similarly despised goddess Camaxtli. I would suggest that when the Spanish were chased out of Tenochtitlan, that the illusion of divinity was gone however.

I got a giggle out of your Alt-Right spelling of "culture" too so I added the extra "c" to make the typo even better.
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That was an accident.
There's some evidence the Aztec were also overconfident in their dealings with the Spanish at first, and what the Spanish took as worship was essentially mocking them
 
Did the spanish just not get it when the aztecs used air quotes?
 
growl said:
the bible is full of technology.

the kavod of yhaweh, his battle armament, which Moses demands to see before accepting to serve yhaweh. in our bibles the kavod becomes the glory of God.

the "Ephod" worn by some priests, David when he wanted to talk with God, he had the "Ephod" worn, which was not an ornament, was worn under his clothes, every stone allowed to speak with a tribe of Israel.

the cherubim that are mechanical constructs, as the Jews know perfectly through the Talmud, and also the same ark of the alliance that generated electricity.
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Why assume that a "battle armament" implies some kind of higher technology? In the Psalms, the "Kavod" of God is mention in relation to his shield, Job's Kavod is mentioned alongside his bow. In context, the Kavod quite clearly represents a sword or sidearm.

An Ephod is a sleeveless top. Are you suggesting that the stones of the Ephod were some kind of higher technology? Is it not more safe to assume that certain stones and precious gems were associated with mystical properties by the Hebrew people at the time, as almost all cultures have throughout time?

I've never heard of the Cherubim being interpreted as mechanical before. Is this because of the word "wheels"?



There are plenty of problems with Von Daniken's work, but chiefly it - and most of its ilk - comes down to a complete ignorance of context, historical or geographical. He takes artwork out of cultural context and talks about what it looks like as a standalone piece, rather than how it sits in a long cultural, artistic and historical tradition. He looks at diverse, long-lasting historical civilisations and condenses them down to one or two "facts" that fit his argument.

My two biggest problems of it, though, are that they assume a complete lack of imagination on the part of our ancestors. Any mention of a God, angel, dragon, or anything that cannot be observed to exist must be a literal account. There seems to be no thought given to the notion that our ancestors were just as capable of imagination, storytelling, allegory, and straight up lying, as any of us are today, or that many of the stories in question have been handed down for hundreds, if not thousands of years, across multiple translations. If we are to assume, against all common sense, that said stories are all literally true accounts, which of the countless contradictory versions do we choose to believe?

The other is that it is fundamentally ignorant - either ignorant of human nature, or in many cases just plain racist. No one questions the human ingenuity that allowed for all the great monuments of European culture, and the great advances in science and technology of that continent. But we assume that those people, over there, they can't possibly have been smart enough, or resourceful enough, to have achieved all this on their own. They're just savages. So there must have been a guiding hand - whether that's lost civilisations forgotten to history, a secret Aryan race coming down from Tibet, technology borrowed from Atlantis or Lemuria, or our most recent version of the same old trope, Ancient Aliens, it all amounts to the same thing.
 
In the biblical passages in which we speak of KAVOD (as Exodus 33) some evident data emerge:

I summarize them:

• The KAVOD of "God" (the alleged "spiritual glory" of monotheistic philologists) can be seen by planning in advance the meeting that must be organized in precise ways.

The philologists must therefore take note of the fact that, if it was a so-called spiritual attribute, it was not permanent.

• The KAVOD of "God" (the alleged "spiritual glory" of monotheistic philologists) did not constantly accompany Yahweh.

• KAVOD of "God" (the alleged "spiritual glory" of monotheistic philologists) kills in an inevitable way, but only those who are within a few hundred meters. The supoi effects are therefore only accepted in a limited space and "God" is not able to control them.

• The effects of KAVOD that "God" is not able to control can instead be controlled by normal rocks, the ones behind which Moses is hiding.

• Rocks are more powerful or effective than "God", since they do what "God" can not do.

• We have a KAVOD (the alleged "spiritual glory" of monotheistic philologists) with a front, a back and side parts.

• The KAVOD (the alleged "spiritual glory" of monotheistic philologists) can only be seen from the back: those in front of them die.

• KAVOD (the alleged "spiritual glory" of monotheistic philologists) moves in space from one direction and from another.

• The KAVOD (the alleged "spiritual glory" of monotheistic philologists) passes in front of a person and then continues allowing a non-dangerous view from the back.

This says the Bible without the need for special translations.

Now we have two options:

1) the Bible tells the truth: in this case we have a "glory" of God at least very very strange.

2) The Bible tells stories: we take note of it and then God and his glory are like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

So I seem to understand from the biblical text, so we could also avoid translating KAVOD and simply call it by that name. kavod indicates a weapon, this is clear, but it is the comtest that counts. In Ezekiel it is too easy to understand that God is seated on an object that flies and makes noise, it is useless to pretend not to understand.
 
Well, yes, the Bible tell stories. That's your answer.

It's absurd to take any myth or folklore as a literal retelling, especially when it's dependent on hundreds of years of translation, reinterpretation, and on an oral tradition before that, in which stories would have changed in the telling any number of times.
 
if I indicate the moon, do not look at the finger.

that the kavod is a flying object is clear ;) so true or false the bible tells it, this is the interesting data.
 
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