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Chislehurst Caves Ghost

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Anyone got any info of the 'lady of the lake' down there? supposedly dragged one of the guides into the lake when he was doing the £5 challenge.
 
Sore Head said:
supposedly dragged one of the guides into the lake when he was doing the £5 challenge.
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Not according to my last tour guide, she didn't.

He reckoned one person was found in there unconscious in the morning after doing the challenge, and another had to be taken out after becoming ill a couple of hours into it. She's occasionally seen by members of the tour parties, but they don't realise until afterwards. I've never seen anything out of the ordinary there.

HTH
 
'Ere! More info required!

What's the story? What's the £5 challenge?

(Or is this just a Local Thread, for Local People...?)
 
England - Chislehurst ? Kent - Chislehurst caves - Chislehurst Caves are a labyrinth of dark, eerie mysterious passageways which have been hewn by hand from the chalk, deep beneath Chislehurst. There are over 20 miles of caverns and passageways, dug over a period of 8000 years. The vast complex of caves are a maze of ancient mines originally carved out in the search for flint and chalk. They are divided into three main sections, Saxon, Druid and Roman. Each section was later connected by digging joining passages. There is a haunted pond deep within the caves, the legend goes that a white lady appears and floats across the water. For many years there was a reward for anyone who could spend the night alone down in the caves, to date there have been some unsuccessful attempts, but so far nobody has been able to do it.. There is also an ancient Druid altar where sacrifices were carried out in the Druid section of the caverns.
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http://maxpages.com/mapit/HAUNTED_LOCATIONS_PAGE_1
 
DPL knows about this, it's on this section somewhere I'm sure, but not under Chislehurst Caves.
 
As well as the alleged "haunted lake" (more of a pond really) there's a small church carved into one of the caves - for the people using it as a bomb shelter as I recall - that has one or two creepy stories attached to it.

At about 21 miles of caving, I've always liked visiting there. If anyone wants to meet up en mass for a tour, count me in. I don't think they allow all night vigils anymore.

Takes me back to Live Action RPG!
 
to guides....chris and dave???? spent the night down there. one of them woke up to hear screaming...found the other face down in the lake.

went to hospital and founf out he'd had an epileptic seizure and his arm wrenched from the socket.

I want to find out more, as my gf was freaked out. I'm mean and want to scare her some more.
 
Lethe said:
DPL knows about this, it's on this section somewhere I'm sure, but not under Chislehurst Caves.
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Well recalled.

It's hidden amidst Most Haunted material here:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/most-haunted-poo-or-boo.8586/page-13#post-383725

[DPL]

The incident that I referred to happened sometime before
this. Two men went down into the caves overnight for a dare,
or charity, I forget which.

Anyway, they set up camp near the so-called haunted pool.
During the night, the two got separated; one decided to have
a sleep and the other went for a wander, and carved some
Lascaux-type markings in the rock (they were still there in
1986). When he returned, he found his friend having an
epileptic fit of some kind. An ambulance was called and he
was taken to hospital. He was a policeman, who took no
nonsense from anyone, and had never had an epileptic
seizure in his life before. He said that he had woken up and
had seen a woman come towards him from the area of the pool.
When the woman touched him, he had the fit.

The man's personality changed markedly overnight and he
became withdrawn and sullen.

ASSAP went down into the caves in 1987 to do some work
on ESP and some work on external influences on the human
brain. As far as I know, no-one has been allowed down there
at night since.
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Thanks Ythian, that's the one, I knew it was buried somewhere, I just couldn't remember where.
 
Thanks for remembering me! The only thing I can add is that the pool is of quite modern construction (made from black pond liners if my informant is right!)
 
I think I remeber you talking about this on Ghosts UK, DPL, when I read what you'd posted here, I definitely remember about not allowing people to do overnight vigils there any-more. Hum.. quite modern? :?
 
Well they should allow vigils, im sure if one were organized me and the Yithian would be well up for it. I tell you if i saw a white lady coming towards me (seemingly walking on water) that would make me belive, expcially if she "touches" Yithian ;)
 
PintQuaff said:
Well they should allow vigils, im sure if one were organized me and the Yithian would be well up for it. I tell you if i saw a white lady coming towards me (seemingly walking on water) that would make me belive, expcially if she "touches" Yithian ;)
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'tis true. I've been touched by many white ladies.

Unfortunately, they do all turn out to be insubstantial and disappear in the morning...

I must say, even if he charged and arranged insurance, I'm sure the owner would find people willing to pay a fee to use the caves for vigils. It's got to be worth his while. The cave complex is utterly huge, and he could easily tuck them away from the exhibits, the tours and the live-roleplayers.

It must be an easier way to make money than growing mushrooms or whatever the company does.

Mmm, mushrooms...
 
DPL said:
Thanks for remembering me! The only thing I can add is that the pool is of quite modern construction (made from black pond liners if my informant is right!)
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As authentic as the stalagtites and stalagmites in West Wycombe Caves then...
 
I live in NYC but went to Chislehurst this past October while on vacation. I'd gone once before, on the "Ghost Bus" tour - I was eleven, so that would have been seventeen years ago - and I'd loved it! So I asked my bf if we could return, despite having to take the train out to Kent.

This time we decided to see if we could get any "ghost photos" and took quite a few digital and film photos, not only of the haunted pool, but of other dark passages, the Druid altar, etc. We'd lag behind the group and wait until they were out of sight, then we'd stop and take some photos.

Two of our digital photos produced some interesting artefacts - one, I think, is definitely a mote of dust or moisture reflecting the flash, and the other I have no explanation for, but it might be the same thing. On the photograph with me in it, I had to lighten the photo a lot in order for the two "orbs" to become visible (I knew they were there because we could see them on the LCD screen on the camera - just not when I uploaded them).

caveorb1.jpg


caveorbs2.jpg


Both photos have been lightened for visibility and cropped. The full size versions are available here:

Haunted Pool
Caves

None of my film photographs produced anything of interest. :(

On my second visit, the guide picked about six of us to stand up on the altar, then took away our lanterns, and then took the rest of the group away down the passage until they could no longer be seen, nor heard. He left us there for what seemed like forever in the pitch dark - one young woman was beginning to get very agitated and afraid - then crept up on us in the dark and clapped his hands in the acoustic hollow, which made us all leap out of our skins. Quite fun! :D
 
yurei:

Always interesting to see photos, although I'm afraid flash against dust particles or a mildly reflective surface is my conclusion.

That said, I like the idea of someone from NYC singling out sleepy Chislehurst for a visit. It tends to fall somewhat lower on the 'must see' list than the obvious London sights!

Never heard of a 'ghost bus' tour - where else did it visit?

edit: I presume that's you being followed by the orb in the second photo.
 
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Hi Yurei,
How did you get access? I thought they didn't allow anyone down there at all these days!

I've been on the Ghost Bus too (in 1986) - unfortunately, it didn't last long because the year of its launch coincided with the Birtish/US bombing of Libya and the Americans were afraid to come over here, so the tour collapsed. The sister tour "A Bus Trip To Murder" continued though.....
 
DPL said:
Hi Yurei,
How did you get access? I thought they didn't allow anyone down there at all these days!
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They still do the tours - a couple of times daily - and very good they are too.

If you ask for some lurking about time - as I did - they'll let you too.

Labyrinth still runs LARP there, too. Just no overnight stays permitted.
 
Wimps!
My LARP days were fun - but in the spirit of "serious investigation" I'd be willing to pay for a vigil etc.
Warmth doesn't come into it - IIRC, there is a constant 21 degrees C down there. I know when we were "in costume", it wasn't an issue.
 
The Yithian said:
yurei:

Always interesting to see photos although i'm afraid flash against dust particles or a mildly reflective surface is my conclusion.
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Hehe, that's what I had to say... particularly since nothing turned up on film (which seems less prone to artefacts). Still, we were quite happy to capture dust motes.

That said, i like the idea of someone from NYC singling out sleepy Chislehurst for a visit - it tends to fall somewhat lower on the 'must see' list than the obvious London sights!

Never heard of a 'ghost bus' tour - where else did it visit?
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Hm, it went to Pluckley, I remember that much... where we saw a "pirate's grave", a haunted pub where we had lunch, and a bunch of the other Pluckley ghost sites. I don't remember where exactly else we went, to be honest - it was a long time ago. However, Chislehurst really stood out in my mind - children are impressionable, and it certainly made an impression on me! So much so, in fact, that seventeen years later I could still keep up with all the stories the tour guide told...

edit: I presume that's you being followed by the orb in the 2nd photo...
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Not the most flattering photo, I'm afraid :? however, I couldn't have cropped out my head without compromising the context of the photo. The Druid altar is somewhere at the end of the tunnel.
 
DPL said:
Hi Yurei,
How did you get access? I thought they didn't allow anyone down there at all these days!
Click to expand...

As someone else mentioned - a tour. I wish I'd thought to ask for "lurking about time" - I didn't know one was allowed!!! We wound up lagging significantly behind the rest of the group most of the time. It's much more atmospheric without the presence of a bunch of tourists, as you can imagine. The tour guide we had obviously relished his job very much and he was quite good at it, besides.

Still, he left out a lot of the information I got when I toured in 1987 - we were the last tour of the day and I think a bit of a rush job.

I've been on the Ghost Bus too (in 1986) - unfortunately, it didn't last long because the year of its launch coincided with the Birtish/US bombing of Libya and the Americans were afraid to come over here, so the tour collapsed. The sister tour "A Bus Trip To Murder" continued though.....
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Really? I was on in 1987! Mostly because I'd read about Pluckley in a children's book about ghosts, and was dying to visit, and my mom and grandma were more than happy to indulge me in the tour (which visited Pluckley). I was wondering what had happened to it - it was a lot of fun. Even got a t-shirt reading "I've been Ghost Bussed!" Hehe.
 
Stormkhan said:
Wimps!
My LARP days were fun - but in the spirit of "serious investigation" I'd be willing to pay for a vigil etc.
Warmth doesn't come into it - IIRC, there is a constant 21 degrees C down there. I know when we were "in costume", it wasn't an issue.
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I'd volunteer to spend the night! I'm not easily spooked and that kind of thing is right up my alley - plus I love the caves; they are so unique and incredible. Of course, the owner says no more overnights. Perhaps with a video crew? I don't know. I guess they don't want lawsuits in case something similar happens.

The two tour guides who spent the night allegedly were out of sight of one another and had a tape recorder set between them in order to ensure they didn't speak to one another. It apparently was when one of them started screaming that the other ran to check on him and found him face-down in the pool, frothing at the mouth.

I'd still love to know the story behind those bones found buried in the pool. Whose were they and where are they now? Our tour guide told us they were discovered while digging for a suitable place to store ammunition - which seems unlikely to me. Also, the story we were told about the supposed origin of the bones seems unlikely also. I'd like to know more but there don't seem to be many sources for this kind of info.

Has anyone ever done any EVP recordings there? Now that would be something relatively easy to do, I would think, and wouldn't require special access of any kind.
 
Something seems a bit odd here. Its pitch black in the caves, and so it should make no difference whether a stay is during the day or at night!
 
I'm up for a little investigating if something is organised. I'm in Essex, but can easily get a train throuh London to Kent.
I went there as a child and loved the place.
 
DPL said:
Something seems a bit odd here. Its pitch black in the caves, and so it should make no difference whether a stay is during the day or at night!
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No, except for the fact that during the day you'll have to dodge tour groups, one after another. They seem to scare away the ghosts. ;)

(Particularly the groups of children who are led to scream all at once in the most blood-curdling way...)

But I agree with you - barring the tour groups, it would feel just as spooky to spend eight to twelve hours of the day down there, alone, in the dark. However, we all know that spooky things happen more during the night - particularly if it's a dark and stormy one!

There is definitely some incredible ancient energy surrouding this site. Ghosts seem paltry compared with it, in fact. (Of course, I probably wouldn't feel the same way if a ghost were wrestling me into a haunted pool, would I?) I find that in most supposedly haunted tourist destinations, the endless flow of people has robbed the site of its atmosphere, and perhaps even of its ghosts themselves.

However, with Chislehurst, even with a group of tourists (many of whom are chatty kids), the place has not failed to give me goosebumps. There is something about descending from the sunlight into a dark subterranean tunnel which has a powerful effect on the psyche. Not to mention the fact that it's got some curious acoustics in some places. The Druids obviously made full use of this effect. Even to our modern minds the place is powerful, but to an ancient mind, any ritual conducted in the spot (particularly the human sacrifice, as is claimed) would have been overwhelmingly awesome. I can only imagine.

Of all the groups which have used the site, the Druids seem to be the only ones who used it for ritual purposes (as opposed to utilitarian purposes). It possesses a tremendous energy which they no doubt respected.

The owners of the place have done a wonderful job of preserving the atmosphere and energy of the site. I love the fact that they have dispensed with electrical lighting in favour of the handheld lanterns.

I have a question to anyone who knows something about the site or has been there. When I was eleven and I went the first time (1987), our tour guide was an older fellow who apparently was the greatest guide ever - in the sixties or seventies he actually navigated the caves blindfolded while a camera crew followed him. IIRC, it took him three hours. He gave the most in-depth tour - much more so than my last tour - even having us lay our hands on the stone to feel the energy. There was also an enormous fossil in the ceiling of one of the tunnels which I was dying to see but missed on this past tour. I imagine the gentleman is probably either very old or deceased now... anyone have any more information on him? He was wonderful.

Sorry for the longish post.
 
After its appearance on a recent Most Haunted, I posted my info on Chislehurst on the HauntedKent.com website and got the following reply:

--

I am the person that supplied haunted kent with the info regarding the challenge . The person talking about the policeman and challenge has got it a little muddled read haunted kent's info from my transcripts.

The most haunted programme was a farce. I offered them my whole book to help them and they werent interested. The haunted pool was formed after the war from a leaky pipe from the men's toilets it was NOT deep hundreds of years ago.

There are NO accounts of a hunchback absolute nonsense i spoke to almost all the guides that worked there dating back to the sixties for my research in the early nineties. 30 years of accounts not one mention of the hunchback. their historian should be shot for fraud.

What a shame the programme couldn't be bothered with the truth. I know there are ghosts there but why make up nonsense it just makes all of us look like fools

I hope the book will be out later this year. I hope you enjoy it. It will include a cd of film of our 1991-1992 research with a pychic who GENUINELY had not heard of the place and if I can find it the original tape recording of the challenge I will put that on their too, it is truly spine chilling.
 
When I went to Chislehurst caves, I was most disappointed - the guide poo-poohed just about everything and instead seemed intent on stressing the decidedly unglamorous Kent Mushroom Company angle. My illusions were shattered.
 
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