Contrails & Chemtrails

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Anonymous

Guest
#1
contrails are freaking me out

Is my own government out to get me and the masses in America. Are they spreading wierd biological chemicals as to prepare us for an upcoming epidemic. I have heard airplanes fly over me too often and seemingly return over and over again to spook me out. I've read on web sites that this is going on everywhere all the time in the U.S.. Is this story for real? and if so, I'm really starting to get mad at the nwo. In the states we have http://www.artbell.com if anyone's interested in this contrail story. Oh yeah, Europe people--You really do have mysterious crop circles right? Rupert Murdoch owns Fox network here. He is a tool for the nwo, and he puts on shows saying it was a couple locals in snow boots doing all the damage in yorkshire or aberdeen or wherever ye are. Basically he puts on shows that discredit crop circles and ufos eventhough there is so much evidence. Isn't there?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#2
Crop Circles

Is it true that with large parts of the countryside closed off this year that no new crop circles within these areas have been reported?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#3
With all the foot and mouth issues in the english countryside there have been little reports on other news!

there have been no new reports of crop circles, this may be because none are forming or there is no one there to see them.

It has been demonstrated that large complex patterns can be formed by a few men with basic tools...a plank of wood with a string at each end (to hold) stepping on the plank lays the crop down without damaging it. a long peice of string gives perfect circles etc...

but there are some mysterious circles that would take a huge amount of time, appearing over night....

lets hope who/what ever attempts one at the moment is immune to foot and mouth :eek:
 

The late Pete Younger

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#4
Most people in europe find crop circles amusing artistic creations, definitely not from other worldly beeings, if aliens wanted to contact us why would they be so cryptic.?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#5
I've read more than once that good aliens want to help out but very strongly believe in free will. If this is true, then they should hightail it down here and save us. As for crop circles, maybe in England then there aren't too many to find that are real or that there is too much disinformation there about them. But there are so many of them-Mexico, Peru, and elsewhere that could never have been done by a couple locals in snowboots or whatever Murdoch wants us to think.
 

The late Pete Younger

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#6
:cool: Why are you so credulous, dont you think if aliens exist they have their pick of countless thousands of earth type worlds to choose from, why pick on a polluted world like ours?.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#7
I lean toward thinking there are ufos. There's just too much that points to this. Crazy anomalies on other celestial surfaces. Too many people are witnesses and many probably feared being labelled loony tunes to admit it. I believe Jimmy Carter witnessed it. Uhm, what's up with all that area 51 stuff, and how has technology accelerated so soon. I hope there are people out there who can help me argue for the case that there are ufos. The bible code seems to make sense, uhm, shadow conspiracy govts seem to exist. Basically, to answer your question, when I was 17 I wrote my first paper on the JFK assassination, and that's when one loses all fear in facing the oppressor. If that murder can be so hidden, then why can't all this ufo stuff be true. And for the contrails, I am very curious about them, if people could help prove or disprove. The U.S. govt. has attacked its own people before. Why isn't it possible that they are doing it again.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#8
p.younger said:
:cool: Why are you so credulous, dont you think if aliens exist they have their pick of countless thousends of earth type worlds to choose from, why pick on a polluted world like ours?.
"Credulous" ???? In support of nwoisevil,
A) Where are all theses "countless (?) thousends (?)" (sic) of inhabited planets? Do you know something NASA doesn't, please elucidate.
B) Do you not think "polluted" could just as easily mean "prepared", as in made ready for habitation by an alien race whose environmental requirements are slightly different to ours?
C) Have you ever read any of Fort's books? I thought not. Note this is a FORTEAN forum, NOT http://www.skeptics.com
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#9
p.younger said:
Most people in europe find crop circles amusing artistic creations, definitely not from other worldly beeings, if aliens wanted to contact us why would they be so cryptic.?
A)"Most people in europe find crop circles amusing artistic creations, definitely not from other worldly beeings," speak for yourself, buddy.

B)"if aliens wanted to contact us why would they be so cryptic.?" Perhaps They wish to start a new religion? Read "Book of the Damned" and have a long hard think, if it doesn't hurt too much.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#10
I don't know enough about contrails to comment about them, but I'm not sure I can see much of a problem with the whole crop circle thing. People have film evidence showing them making some of the most complex designs out there! This may not be sceptic.com, but surely Fortean studies is no more about unquestioningly accepting dubious phenomena and conspiracy theories than it is about unconditional disbelief. I don't deny that UFOs exist, but the jump from that to the claim that they are alien visitors who like to make pretty patterns in corn seems a pretty big one to make entirely without evidence.

We have a perfectly servicable explanation for this; the idea that some patterns are too big or complex to be made in a night is demonstrably wrong. The whole UFO explanation seems to me to have been fairly comprehensively torpedoed. So why does anyone still insist on dragging aliens into it, a far more complicated and difficult explanation? Apart from convincing themselves that everything going on around them is part of a grand pattern, and that life is intrinsically meaningful and coherent, that is...
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#11
I've always had problems with 2 types of people, those who say everything that is unexplainable has to be a fraud, and those who will blindly believe anything told to them. Contrails are all over the skies simply because we now have more air travel, whether any chemicals are being introduced, I have no idea. I do know that I've heard of this off & on since the 70's, mostly in the tabloids. Personally, I LOVE The Weekly World News!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#12
I the course of my investigations into crop formations I have found this:
We accept the existence of complex man made hoaxes. There is still an undeniable core of phenomena that is not understood, characterised by certain evidence NO fakers have been able to replicate (swollen nodes, burst grains, genuine formations continue to ripen and can still be harvested, historical cases, I could go on but perhaps you might like to get off your arse and ask a few farmers like I did 12 years ago, instead of relying on second-hand testimony.):mad:
And no, I don't necessarily believe in aliens...
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#13
My problem is that I can be all over the place and I apologise for that. Tabloids are a joke, and I've never read them. Tabloid nonsense tends to make me believe more in all this mysterious stuff. I believe that there are disinformation campaigns, and one is to make all those who speak of the unknown to be not all mentally there. It does seem nutty when people make huge jumps in logic from various bits of information. This reminds me of the police tune too much information. We are bombarded with so much that it becomes more difficult to put it all together. I believe that those in power love the internet because they know that it is outside of the canon of academia. You can't footnote the internet. I do believe however that there are intrinsic ties, that if we study one thing it can shed light on other things. And my biggest fear in life is how those in power circumscribe the protest into the status quo. We never seem to learn from Santayana's message of learning not to repeat the errors of the past. Our error I believe is that we think there is this natural progression to a greater world. We believe that oh that's what happened in the past and that doesn't happen anymore. The last thing I want to do is help the status quo by fitting their slot as a lunatic. I am no expert on any of this, and that is why I sought out help from others who may better articulate how I feel. I am no Immanuel Kant, but it's been said that there are writers who are better at explaining Kant's ideas than he was. The last thing i wanted to do was come across as a tabloid reader.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#14
:) Do not worry. Keep an open mind above all else. There is a culture in the UK at the moment of dumbing down and scepicism, and probably rightly so, but there are always people out there working hard in the field, actually investigating stuff. There are unfortunately many armchair critics who just sit in front of their tvs and accept the spoon-fed version of reality. They call themselves Forteans, yet they are not even familiar with his work.
I reject all explanations ultimately, from the believers and the non-believers, and prefer to make judgements based on my own researches. I work full time in a dull IT job and am limited in terms of time and money, but at least I make time to get out and do some leg work, and no bullsh*t is gonna stop me...
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#15
Thanks for the insights Tubal Cain and for making me feel comfortable as a new visitor to the forteantimes. You inspire in that you are not mad at being poor and not having time, and that instead of caving in, you show others how to be strong. I can relate to your armchair forteans, those talking heads who have big egos and who talk about things without any humility. The greatest sociologist from America may be argued to be C. Wright Mills who talked about the power elite and the sociological imagination. Perhaps the sociological imagination is similar to the fortean drive for truth and insight. What gets me is when the non-true take other's ideas and fit them into their cozy worldview. One case in point is the sociological imagination. I've seen it mentioned a lot in a us textbook for high schoolers. They totally botch it to serve their own capitalist ideas. This is what i think those in power and those who serve power do. They take any good point or threat to the status quo and then fit it into the status quo. So I guess I am saying keep up the good work in defending this guy Charles Fort and not letting his vision be distorted.
 

whippsa

Fresh Blood
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#16
vapor trail

Jet vapor trails would be a pretty poor method of distributing anything. This would not be done to distribute anything expensive.

I personally feel that the whole vapor trail thing is pretty silly. What you are seeing is, well, vapor trails and exhaust from jets.

If there is anything hidden it may be the degree that they stimulate cloud cover and therefore global warming, or as an unintended byproduct, introduce ozone depleting chemicals high in the air.

Let us assume for a minute that there is some kind of environmental damage and not secret biological experiments. If one were doing disinformation then there would be nothing better than to degrade the argument. Make ALL discussion about jet exhaust untouchable by University researchers by painting it as a 'kook' subject.

The distribution of virus' or other biologicals or other way out experiements via jet exhaust is just silly, stop it!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#17
I did not make up this story, and when people said that Oswald wasn't behind Kennedy's murder, they too were told that they were silly. I believe that Fort would want people to not stop researching a subject because it didn't seem to fit into scientific theory. I think through earlier posts that I have made clear I am against disinformation. This contrail stuff is new to me too. This is why I was asking for information on it. It may just be the goofiest thing ever thought of, but yet again, weren't the ideas of cointelpro(counter intelligence program) or college of the americas or super computer echelon , these must have seemed far-fetched too. Another example, you try to tell people here how cops are for the majority of them jerks and most people wave the flag and call those critics loony leftists or worse. Now in the past year all this stuff has come out about widespread police corruption and harrassment of citizens. I think the person who thinks the extension of a contrail discussion is silly needs to disprove it better, and when there are people out there who seem honest and agree with you, then I will apologize for any silliness. I admit that police corruption is a much easier topic to research and discuss. Yet this is the fortean times, and this is where I believe no idea should be simply discarded, especially without a tighter repudiation.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#18
"The distribution of virus' or other biologicals or other way out experiements via jet exhaust is just silly, stop it! "


I have several newsclippings on file concerning the UK govt, MOD releasing E.coli bacterium along with other agents that remained unspecified from navy ships along the coast of Dorset from 1970's onwards. The original files can be found at Kew Public Records Office, London, if you care. So if our government does it, it's likely yours does, too.
Didn't Clinton apologise for some experiments that were carried out on unwitting patients, or did I dream that?

Just who is the silly one, Whippass?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#19
The U.S. govt. has given syphillis to its black soldiers at Tuskegee. They have formed Cointelpro which infiltrated legal domestic groups. They have set up the college of the americas to export state sponsored terrorism. They have put Japanese Americans in camps simply because they were of Japanese origin. They have conducted obscene experiments on mentally retarded folks (those we should most love, cherish, and protect) with radiation. They have made pacts with Nazis who they thought could help them fight commies. We have police who love to beat up on people or worse, look to Rodney King. We had the atrocities in Vietnam. We supported racists in South Africa. The only thing i will concede is that I read a Fortean Times article on the contrails after my last post, and have to now admit that I may have been drawn into a natural hysteria, but then again, i still feel there is truth somewhere in this story.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#20
I heard recently that just before all that Lewinsky business, Clinton was trying to get the CIA to open it's files.
Is this true?
Is GW Bush as intimate with the CIA as his father?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#21
I'm not sure about Clinton trying to get to CIA files, but it would not surprise me. Clinton seems to have really tried to get things done, and unfortunately he let mundane desires sap his credibility. I believe that GW is a puppet of the CIA. Dick Cheney, the vp, has a disgusting background with the defense industry. James Baker, another evil republican, was behind helping GW get elected during the florida recount. C. Wright Mills wrote about the power elite. He spoke of an Iron Triangle, in which an institutional conspiracy exists between the executive(president), the military-industrial complex, and big business. He wrote that many people rotate from one of the three to the others. I think Fort would have appreciated his theory, because if it is true it doesn't fit into the model as america being the model of democracy. He wasn't into any grand conspiracy. He saw it as an institutional conspiracy. In America, right now, we are under the direction of the CIA and shadow govt. scum. I think Clinton posed a threat to this order, and that's why they went after him. I think Clinton was too naive and too egotistical to overcome it. Carter was another democrat who was too naive. Mike Dukakis, same thing. We need a ghandi who plays football- oops american football.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#22
Going back to the original query about contrails/vapour trails/chemtrails, I have to say that the sampling of "evidence" photos that I have seen does not seem to suggest the occurence of deliberate "chemtrails". There seems to be some confusion over what normal contrails can look like.

For example I have seen a photo of a purported chemtrail, where the contrail starts and then stops. This is given as evidence that the noxious materials were only vented for a finite duration, whereas a "real" contrail would not start and stop. Unfortunately "real" contrails can start and stop. The conditions under which a contrail will form are somewhat complicated, but it is very dependant on the moisture content of the surrounding air (contrails are formed by moisture condensing out of the air around particulates produced by an aircraft engine, and not by "steam" form the engine condensing out because it is cold.) If the moisture content were to vary from one bit of the sky to another (as it can do) then one should not be surprised to see this start/stop behaviour.

I have also seen claims that "chemtrails" were being produced by some mechanism mounted in the tail plane of an aircraft. This deduction had been made because the trail appeared to start just aft of the tail plane and *not* just behind the wing where the engines were mounted. Again, this deduction was based upon a false assumption. In this case it had been assumed that a "real" contrail would start immediately behind the engine. Again this is incorrect. Closer inspection of the photo showed that the contrails were perfectly in line with the engines, and that any apparent correlation with the tail plane was just coincidence.

I may be wrong when I suggest that all chemtrails are in fact just contrails, but I would suggest that the onus is on the chemtrail advocates to present solid photographic evidence that this phenomena is anything out of the ordinary. (If anyone does know of a convincing case, then please post it here.)
 

TheOriginalCujo

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#23
Perhaps now whould be a good time to point out the UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object not spaceship, not aliens.
Remember just because people seen inxeplicable lights in the sky it doesn't mean that they have to some from annother plannet.
Here are a few alternative suggestions. Earthlights, ball lightning, crafts from the future, crafts from alternative versions of earth, faeries, angels, spirits, ghosts.
I'm not saying I believe any of these just that Unexplained means Unexplained.

Cujo :rolleyes:
 

DerekH16

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#24
From home, I can see contrails/chemtrails left by aircraft flying over the North Sea.
If they're dispersing chemicals, biological agents or whatever, why chuck it into the North Sea? And, presumably, the Atlantic, Pacific, etc.?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#25
I started this thread because I was going through internet material on it and was hoping people could either disprove it, or show that it may be possible. I doubt it is true, but one never knows. Contrails are what they are. This story is about contrails different from regular ones. The story is that the us govt. is spreading them over the us. That they are trying to get the population ready for some population thinning. I admit that there is no proof of this story and I was hoping maybe there'd be some folks who understand this specific story. I know it sounds ludicrous, yet again, I did not make this one up.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#26
My belief (which I will hold until proven otherwise) is that so-called chemtrails, both over the UK and US, are either natural phenomena (cloud can naturally form linear structures) or the result of normal aviation. I have seen many claims that they represent some clandestine operation, but the evidence doesn't seem to stack up. I am willing to be open-minded about it, but I have yet to see any evidence that supports the existance of chemtrails. I recommend having a look at some books on cloud formation and patterns (I think that there are some particularly good books by a guy called Scorer that not only explains the physics of contrail formation but also shows some examples of the "doughnuts on a rope" phenomena that some people have interpreted as the side-effect of a novel propulsion technique.)

As regards the internet information that you have been looking at, do you have a URL for it?
 

DerekH16

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#27
It's probably impossible to disprove this story to the complete satisfaction of everyone - and, of course, it may just be possible! Likely? Personally, I think not (IMHO).
As for population thinning, why? Does it make sense to improve the odds in favour of whoever the current 'enemy' is?

(Which reminds me of the Harry Harrison book 'Make Room, Make Room' (filmed as Soylent Green) - the US has run out of space (and food) because the population density has reached (as I recall) 40 people per square mile - which is the population density of Scotland, which is about the least densely populated country in Europe!)

I don't know where some of these stories start, but surely it can't make sense to thin the population (remove the 'untermensch', whatever) until, firstly, the 'supermen' are ready and in place, and, secondly, the 'enemy' have been defeated - you might just need a few million expendable cannon fodder!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#28
Maybe this thread has run its course. In America we have a late night radio host art bell who covers all of these types of things. I posted this question after going through his web site and finding out about the "contrail conspiracy" and it got me paranoid. So maybe ye might want to check out http://www.artbell.com and go through his site and links. He also I think has the show go over the net. But seriously this seems to have gone as far as it can go here. My interests are actually in the roots of fascism, but I love this ufo and paranormal stuff. I found fortean times through the artbell site. Thanks for recommending the cloud book to me. Unfortunately I am no scientist which most have already probably guessed. I am a modern day socrates wannabe. Well, hang in there. As Bono might say, sorry if I bugged you, and no I'm not going to ask if space bugs are real.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#29
Oh, I've got to respond again. If you thin out the masses, then you have greater control over them. Maybe the new world order is afraid of democracy while they hypocritically spout about it.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#30
Contrails.,..

Just thought I'd chime in. This is a Fortean message board
not www.sceptics.com
however, Fort never ruled out rational explanations. I just think
that there are people, myself included, with different levels of
trust in our government. These political issues aside, strange contrails seem to occur at some frequency throughout the country. Here's a weird one for you all: Does anyone remember
seeing photos on the TV news or in the papers in the mid 1990's,
say 1994/199, around this time, these showed a ' double doughnut' or a 'doughnut on a rope' contrails. It seems these
contrails at the time were atributed to experimental aircraft--and the testing of a "scramjet" ie..modified supersonic-ramjet engines.
The supposed "Aurora" aircraft, or another secret-jet was thought to be responsible. People heard unexplaiend sonic booms, some picked up by CAL-Geologists on Rhicter scales.
This activity leveled off and strangely seems to have silently ended by the late 90's. However, and here's the kicker-
those seismic disturbances were never explained and accounted for by earthquake specialists and when the famous "double-doughnut on a rope" contrails photos were studied by
air-craft engine design engineers and physicists-they said they knew of no currently publicised aircraft that would create contrials in that particular configuration and that ram-jets produced distinctly different contrails-which means another craft was creating those contrails-so I guess I'm saying-it would'nt be the first time parts of The government have covered SOMTHING up..
L8er;)
 
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