Crying Boy Portrait

[OneWingedBird]

Having grown up in the north in the 70s, i'd have to agree

 

[JamesWhitehead]

Researching something else entirely, I came across this 1844 cutting which the Carlisle Patriot had out of Chamber's Journal with a reference to an event back in Lyons in 1815! I don't think it has been cited before in this connection.

http://www.cultrans.com/carlisle-patrio ... 4?start=80

Carlisle Patriot, September 20th, 1844

SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION OF PICTURES --It is a curious fact that oil paintings are among the articles liable to spontaneous combustion. Many an oil painting has fired spectators with enthusiastic admiration or with a desire of emulation; but that they should fire themselves (in another and far more unwelcome sense) to their destruction, is a more remarkable fact. It will be remembered that a large package of pictures was lately burned, without apparent cause, while in the course of being transported on the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway; and that is but one among many instances. Vegetable oils, used on cloths, yarn, or wool, in the process of dying, and confined for a time from the open air, are very apt to occasion spontaneous fire.  Floor cloths, and rags used in cleaning oil, are thus to be found among the forty various articles ascertained to be liable to spontaneous combusion. So far back as 1815, an instance occurred of this phenomenon at Lyons, where the material was cloth containing oil. Chamber's Journal

 

[Cochise]

But these are prints...

I like the Wings of Love - I'd put it on my wall. It might cheer the place up compared to the Enrique Serra prints that are there now.

 

[escargot]

My ex's parents had that over the fireplace. Horrible thing.

 

[OneWingedBird]

Went in a retro shop in Leeds city centre a while back and after looking around for a minute I said to the assistant "hey, you've got everything 'cept that swan picture!"

Then i went downstairs and guess what? :lol:

 

[Mythopoeika]

I think that 'wings of love' picture is quite well executed.
It looks like a lot of science fiction art that was about at the time.

My Mum didn't like it because of the nudity...

 

[JamesWhitehead]

It's a good point, Cochise, that the prints were not really oil paintings but I was not aware of a tradition that paintings were particularly subject to SC - apart from the Crying Boy. I have not been through all the literature . . . yet.

 

[Cochise]

It's a good point, Cochise, that the prints were not really oil paintings but I was not aware of a tradition that paintings were particularly subject to SC - apart from the Crying Boy. I have not been through all the literature . . . yet.

Hmm (sound of musing!)

When most indoor paints were still oil based, you were warned about throwing any cloths etc in the bin together in case they generated heat - both the paint itself and the turps (?) used to clean brushes were supposedly dangerous. Why they didn't generate heat when they dried on the woodwork I don't know - perhaps the risk was tied up with lack of ventilation in a confiend (sorry confined - that was a genuine typo but so good I thought I'd leave it!) ) space such as a bin?

But that quote is the first time I'd heard that there was a risk with finished paintings. And I'm not sure it really does confirm such a risk. Paintings certainly have a high flammability, and one could easily imagine a number of things on an early steam train that could result in a closed box going on fire! We all know the reliability of statements like 'without apparent cause'!

I think the cutting is really talking about the danger of contaminated cloths and materials, not the paintings themselves.

 

[oldrover]

I'm not aware of any oil painting ever spontaneously catching fire. I've even burnt a few paintings and don't remember them going up very well.

Researching something else entirely, I came across this 1844 cutting which the Carlisle Patriot had out of Chamber's Journal with a reference to an event back in Lyons in 1815!

At that period artists were using large amounts of bitumen in their work. This like linseed oil does have the capacity under certain circumstances to ignite on it's own.

Thing is though the examples given of oils soaked rags don't really fit with how a painting is put together. Even if, as would be likely for a painting from apr 1800, it was painted on canvas, the actual paint wouldn't touch it's surface. Instead the paint would be applied to a thick lead ground that would itself contain linseed oil but would have been left to dry out and harden well before. Plus when the actual painting started the amounts of linseed oil used probably wouldn't be enough to generate heat. In fact it doesn't, if there is any heat generated by a drying painting it's not noticeable. But as I said the use of bitumen in the 19th century may introduce another reaction not found since it's use has been abandoned.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I think bituminous paint is only ever likely to self-ignite if it is very thick and still has a soft core. If it's laid on thinly, I think it's unlikely to self-ignite, as all the 'vapours' will have evaporated long ago.
Turpentine is more likely to go up in flames, I think.

 

[oldrover]

Turpentine is more likely to go up in flames, I think.

Not in this context, turps dissipates very quickly from oil paint, it's used to accelerate drying time. The simplest fast painting medium is 50/50 linseed oil and turps, depending of course on how thick and in some cases colour used, a heavily dilute layer of this and paint will be dry enough to over paint in less than 24 hours. Of course it's not totally dry but that's the linseed oil.

I think bituminous paint is only ever likely to self-ignite if it is very thick and still has a soft core. If it's laid on thinly, I think it's unlikely to self-ignite, as all the 'vapours' will have evaporated long ago.

This is exactly what went wrong, it never, and as far as I know still hasn't, dried out completely and later it darkened and began to crack and distort in a particular way, which became known as 'crocodile skin'. It's noted in the work of many artists from just before during and after the Chambers article.

Personally I've no idea whether it has actually caused any picture to explode, but I seriously doubt that it has. Oil paint has been with us for a long time and it's physical characteristics have always been studied. There's plenty in the literature about yellowing, cracking, darkening, colour instability over time etc, but nothing I've ever heard of about exploding.

 

[Mythopoeika]

No, I haven't heard of it exploding, either.
I've seen plenty of old paintings with a thick, leathery layer of bituminous paint - with the crocodile skin effect that you describe.

 

[JamesWhitehead]

Interesting stuff and thanks to all posters on the subject though I should say that my own focus was on a traditional belief in the SC of pictures rather than the reality of that phenomenon.

I can see that a sack of oily rags might just combust by some process analogous to a hay-box, unless the chemicals would kill off the thermophilic bacteria that raise the temperature . . . Out of my depths in science.

 

[oldrover]

Apparently it's to do with this;

spontaneous combustion happens in oily rags because of the slow oxidation process linseed oil goes through - using up oxygen. When this takes place heat forms..

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/archive ... 62224.html

I see what you mean about the belief rather than the reality, but this thread has been an eye opener for me because of the countless times I've actually stuffed bins full of cloths sopping with linseed oil.

On the subject of scary paintings, while watching one of the many documentaries I’ve seen on it over the years, someone from the National Gallery said that at night the guard dogs refused to go into the room where the Rembrandts hang.

 

[Cochise]

Linseed oil! Thank you. Yes, that was the dangerous stuff, not turps.

Could it be that the whole 'spontaneous combustion of oily cloths' is its own urban legend?

 

[oldrover]

Apparently not, but I'm not sure in reality how often it happens. As I say it never happened to me and I did it hundreds of times. But then I haven't seen many hay lorries, one the few I did see though did spontaneously combust so perhaps it just luck.

 

[Cochise]

Hay bales cetainly can spontaneously combust, I've seen it happen (well, the aftermath).

We made the mistake of building archery targets out of hay bales instead of straw bales, thats how we know. We should have suspected when we started pulling arrows out that were warm (in those days arrows were usually aluminium) but we didn't twig until one of the targets actually reduced itself to ash, leaving the wooden framework no more than scorched. We then checked the others and found some had started to burn inside - that is, you pulled the pile of bales apart and found blackened burnt patches in the middle, so no possibility of an outside fireraiser.

As allegedly happens with SHC, they burn (or smoulder) to fine ash without causing much damage around them. Just as well, or we could have burnt the whole wood down. I don't know what actually triggers the effect, but maybe its getting damp so they start to rot and generate heat? And then the damp also acts to slow the burning process. (all this is guess work - any arable farmers out there know more?)

They'd have been standing in the wood for a few weeks before this happened.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I don't know what actually triggers the effect, but maybe its getting damp so they start to rot and generate heat?

That sounds like the explanation.
Bacteria get to work in much the same way as with compost, and they generate heat. Also, a bit of methane is generated, which can be what gets the fire going in the first place.

 

[Jac21]

no scientific explanation but having mucked about extensively on various farms in my formative years the process i think is like that in a compost bin.
On a similar note i have a cookery book from the war that gives instructions on how to build a fireless oven using bales of hay.

 

[tonylovell]

That Wings of Love painting scared me, too. God - ANYTHING scares *me*.

 

[escargot]

So, was it his hand then, clenched into a fist and strategically placed, or what? :lol:

 

[Monstrosa]

One of his legs looks longer than the other. Or is it that one of his legs is shorter than the other? :?

 

[escargot]

I may have to take a close-up photo next time I see that print.

 

[Ringo]

BUMP!

I'm busy writing a Halloween themed stage show and remembered that a few years ago I found and bought a "Crying Boy" picture from a second hand shop. It's been in storage ever since. I was intending to use it in another show to talk about curses and Urban Legends etc. I rigged the picture frame to start burning but we had to can it due to fire regulations etc and so it's gathering dust now.

IIRC, didn't the artist's studio burn down after he painted the original? And then he made some sort of pact with the devil to become a famous artist? So his paintings began to sell but they came with a curse.

This is the one I bought:

 

[escargot]

Crying boy

I know 2 families personally who were afflicted of the crying boy "curse" in the early 1980's (Fortean Times issue 234 page 32) one of the homes was a pre-war gable ended terrace house with a fireplace, but the other was a new non-fireplaced central heated semi-detached house, but the painting in both was of the "Crying Toby" variant (As the second picture at the top of page 34 but in colour).

In the gable ended house the print was framed above the fireplace in the main living room, but in the semi was on a internal support wall in the living room with no pipes or electricity wires again etc.

But in both cases the print was untouched even though the frames were slightly scorched and the rooms the prints were in were totally devistated, but amazingly enough the fires did not spread thoughout the rest of the buildings, and as I remembered rightly (I have just phoned both parties involved after I read the article) that neither families received thier insurance settlements as both companies refused to pay out due to owning the "Crying Toby" print.

Also as a foot note both prints were "prizes" from the local travelling fair (Romany Gypsy curse maybe?).

'old on, 'old on. The insurance companies refused to pay out because of the print? Yeah right.