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Depression

DrPaulLee said:
No, no lower level pain. The only pain I feel is in my head. During the day I have enough distractions to numb the thoughts.
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I was once given the 'handy tip' to deal with insomnia ... get up and do the ironing. If like me you don't do it anyway that's going to be as much help to you as it was to me!

All the problems in the world are waiting to assault in the middle of the night. That overwhelming combination of the personal and global is hideous isn't it? The only comfort, if you can call it that, is knowning that you aren't the only one. Perhaps you could try imagining which of your fellow forteans are in the same boat at that particular time and then share whatever is particularly getting to you in a Mickey Mouse voice.

That's probably not much help either, sorry, but know that you are not alone and have my empathy.
 
Eight days to my anticipated operation date. At least... very late on Friday I had a phone message from the hospital to tell me they want to discuss the date. (We'd had a rare trip out, so of course we missed the call) And of course, nobody's going to be available till Monday to explain exactly what it's about. Worst case scenario - they're cancelling and rescheduling again. I hope not - there's nothing so depressing as having a life-altering condition and getting knocked back on an operation date. (well - nothing more depressing for me, that is). It's like living in perpetual twilight.
 
AgProv said:
Eight days to my anticipated operation date. At least... very late on Friday I had a phone message from the hospital to tell me they want to discuss the date. (We'd had a rare trip out, so of course we missed the call) And of course, nobody's going to be available till Monday to explain exactly what it's about. Worst case scenario - they're cancelling and rescheduling again. I hope not - there's nothing so depressing as having a life-altering condition and getting knocked back on an operation date. (well - nothing more depressing for me, that is). It's like living in perpetual twilight.
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Hope it goes well for you AP. Fingers etc crossed.
 
Rescheduled. Again. Only by ten days but still disheartening. After a year of gradual decline I really do want this to be over and done with. Thanks to all for sympathy and support! This half-life is irritating and depressing.
 
AgProv said:
Rescheduled. Again. Only by ten days but still disheartening. After a year of gradual decline I really do want this to be over and done with. Thanks to all for sympathy and support! This half-life is irritating and depressing.
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My sympathy AP. Stressful enough with this hanging over you without it being prolonged by rescheduling. Our local NHS hospital has been bunging people into the private hospital to get patients seen to more quickly. Much more comfortable place.
 
AgProv said:
Eight days to my anticipated operation date. At least... very late on Friday I had a phone message from the hospital to tell me they want to discuss the date. (We'd had a rare trip out, so of course we missed the call) And of course, nobody's going to be available till Monday to explain exactly what it's about. Worst case scenario - they're cancelling and rescheduling again. I hope not - there's nothing so depressing as having a life-altering condition and getting knocked back on an operation date. (well - nothing more depressing for me, that is). It's like living in perpetual twilight.
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While you're in there, ask for a set of those free NHS headphones that ward patients get. I was only in recently to get my kidney stones blasted but I asked the nurse using the excuse that I needed the headphones to listen to work and health related things. She was totally cool with that .. plus you'll be wearing a wristband so you'll be, in fact, an inpatient. Plus it'll slightly take your mind off things on the day to do something naughty with the reward of a free set of headphones. Plus, your wristband usually gets you money off food and drink at the hospital café. I'm tasking you a mission :salute:.
 
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Thank you for all kind replies! Just had a three in the morning sandwich (chicken roll and pickle on baguette, since you ask) and a gloomy realisation I'm probably eating too much. Soon be back in bed to follow the cycle of six hours up, four hours asleep, rinse and repeat....
 
AgProv said:
Thank you for all kind replies! Just had a three in the morning sandwich (chicken roll and pickle on baguette, since you ask) and a gloomy realisation I'm probably eating too much. Soon be back in bed to follow the cycle of six hours up, four hours asleep, rinse and repeat....
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I got up in the early morning the other day and made myself a pb and j sandwich. I can't get to sleep if I'm hungry and sometimes wake shortly after falling asleep because I'm hungry.

Now you may have to watch what you are eating, but it has been shown that people with a little excess weight fair better health wise than those on the slender end. Especially when recovering from illness or injury. It's because your body has more energy in reserve to draw on for recovery.
 
DrPaulLee said:
The absolute worst time is when I wake up early in the morning. It takes hours to get back to sleep and during that whole time there are these thoughts preying on my mind.
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Historically I have never slept. As a kid I used to lay awake as far back as I can remember. Even now I normally get a couple of hours then wake for an hour, sleep for a couple and wake some more. It is dreadful! Unfortunately it is me and my make up. Doesn’t matter if i’ve been on or off the booze, it’s the same. And you don’t need me to tell you the bottom of a bottle is not the answer.
In recent years I have been treated with some seriously toxic drugs to treat my IBD and they have had a real adverse effect on my mental health, a known response. When they then prescribed a heavy dose of prednisolone on top, I ended up with “pred-head” and started to plan my flight to Switzerland to be euthanised at Dignitas.
As a mental health first aider I knew this wasn’t me and got over the need to be “put down”. I discussed it with my specialist Gastro nurse who noted in my records that I shouldn’t be given prednisolone when on other drugs that fuck up your head. She also offered me group help which suits some people, but doesn’t float my boat.

Some People can reason with themselves some cannot, if you feel so far down that you cannot see an end to it phone Samaritans or any of the other groups out there who exist to help people in crisis. Always great in the early hours of the morning with nobody else to chat with.

There will always be someone to help out, to talk to, to see and guide you through. DON’T bottle it up and go alone when there is no need, the old cliche a problem shared is a problem halved is true.

Take care, look after yourself and never forget help is but a call, a chat away.
 
I don't know if this will be of any help to @DrPaulLee or any other forumists with similar feelings, but I was by far at my lowest ebb with anxiety, depression and shocking insomnia some 30 years ago. At the time, I had a fairly high pressure position with a financial company, coupled with a long and absolutely exhausting daily commute into London.
I stuck it out for 3½ years, but knew it was having a very bad effect on my health and relationships and I finally took the decision to take a significant cut in salary for a far less stressful IT position within cycling distance of home.
After that, my outlook and life in general improved enormously and I quite simply started feeling like me again.
Now that I'm within a couple of years of retiring, I've long since shed any ambition to seek any further progress up the corporate ladder and am more than happy to be considered something of an expert in my field but without having the stress of project/team management.
Never underestimate the effect that your 9 to 5 grind has on your wellbeing, either positive or negative. If you're doing a job that you hate, then change it before your health suffers.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
At the time, I had a fairly high pressure position with a financial company, coupled with a long and absolutely exhausting daily commute into London.
I stuck it out for 3½ years, but knew it was having a very bad effect on my health
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My wife similarly had a position with JLT in the City. I saw the effect the stress was having on her after a good and happy career of some 40 years and after having a brush with cancer I told her enough was enough and got her to retire. Two incomes was great as was the holidays and everything that went with it, but I like my wives alive and though we don’t have the financial stability we had then, we have a retired wife, 4 dogs and a houseful of love.
 
Diet may have some effect - I'm currently reading a recent book called Change your diet, change your mind that is basically saying try paleo for 6 weeks or more extreme diets if that doesn't work. I'm going to try gradually transitioning to paleo to see if it improves anything but it's a big ask as it means cutting out seeds (grains, beans, nuts etc.), nightshades, dairy, vegetable oil, raw cruciferous and keeping carbs lowish.

Edit to add: Although the book calls it paleo, it's not trying to match what our ancestors ate but to avoid foods that can damage your brain e.g. plants that put up defences because they don't want to be eaten.
 
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flannel said:
Diet may have some effect - I'm currently reading a recent book called Change your diet, change your mind that is basically saying try paleo for 6 weeks or more extreme diets if that doesn't work. I'm going to try gradually transitioning to paleo to see if it improves anything but it's a big ask as it means cutting out seeds (grains, beans, nuts etc.), nightshades, dairy, vegetable oil, raw cruciferous and keeping carbs lowish.
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The good thing with that type of paleo diet is it is an exclusion diet to the point where you become stable then start to gradually reintroduce foods to determine what does and doesn’t have an adverse impact on your condition.
I know I am much healthier on the old Hay diet, I also know that eating protein and vegetables without the carbs makes me feel better. I slipped back into spuds, rice, pasta etc a few years back and have struggled to break free from them.
I have a week off in May and am going to try and recondition to a carb meal at breakfast, neutral lunch and protein dinner.

I have become quite interested in the food plans laid out in the Auto Immune Paleo Protocol diet at https://www.paleo-britain.co.uk/autoimmune-protocol-aip/
 
flannel said:
Diet may have some effect - I'm currently reading a recent book called Change your diet, change your mind that is basically saying try paleo for 6 weeks or more extreme diets if that doesn't work. I'm going to try gradually transitioning to paleo to see if it improves anything but it's a big ask as it means cutting out seeds (grains, beans, nuts etc.), nightshades, dairy, vegetable oil, raw cruciferous and keeping carbs lowish.
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Within a couple of years of quitting that stressful job in London, I also took the decision to become vegetarian.
I haven't relapsed to meat eating for over 3 decades now.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Within a couple of years of quitting that stressful job in London, I also took the decision to become vegetarian.
I haven't relapsed to meat eating for over 3 decades now.
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I am a committed carnivore and couldn’t survive without fowl, fish or meat. And though I have thought that a vegetarian diet would help my health problems, I am told to stick to a non residue diet. Low in veg and fibre. I don’t stick to the diet advised by the hospital but tread cautiously. Avoid anything that comes out as it went in (eg sweetcorn) and Chew your drink and drink your food, as attributed to Mahatma Gandhi. (Or Ma hat, my coat, my flip flop from my childhood)

https://ankitkumarmahakur.medium.com/drink-your-food-413a171b4945
 
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I went veggie primarily for ethical reasons, but feel that it probably did help my recovery from the burn-out I was experiencing.
The main point I wanted to make though was that anxiety/depression isn't some disembodied external factor that assails you for no reason.
I believe it is something that is triggered from within you and the only way to defeat it is to analyse your lifestyle and take steps to eradicate that trigger. In my case it was the combination of a very stressful career position and an absolutely horrible long commute.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
I don't know if this will be of any help to @DrPaulLee or any other forumists with similar feelings, but I was by far at my lowest ebb with anxiety, depression and shocking insomnia some 30 years ago. At the time, I had a fairly high pressure position with a financial company, coupled with a long and absolutely exhausting daily commute into London.
I stuck it out for 3½ years, but knew it was having a very bad effect on my health and relationships and I finally took the decision to take a significant cut in salary for a far less stressful IT position within cycling distance of home.
After that, my outlook and life in general improved enormously and I quite simply started feeling like me again.
Now that I'm within a couple of years of retiring, I've long since shed any ambition to seek any further progress up the corporate ladder and am more than happy to be considered something of an expert in my field but without having the stress of project/team management.
Never underestimate the effect that your 9 to 5 grind has on your wellbeing, either positive or negative. If you're doing a job that you hate, then change it before your health suffers.
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A few years ago when walking along the canal, I met a canalist (who looked suprisingly like Frank Zappa) who had had a job that sounded similar to yours.

He said that he'd often be still working at 11pm, even on a Sunday.

The money was great, so he stuck it out for a few years, but couldn't take it anymore, and bought the boat to live on and travel the country in.
 
Floyd said:
A few years ago when walking along the canal, I met a canalist (who looked suprisingly like Frank Zappa) who had had a job that sounded similar to yours.

He said that he'd often be still working at 11pm, even on a Sunday.

The money was great, so he stuck it out for a few years, but couldn't take it anymore, and bought the boat to live on and travel the country in.
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There was an interesting interview on the radio yesterday with a former stock market trader who started at a young age. Did an 80 hour 7 day week (motto from the floor "If you don't work Saturday don't bother coming in on Sunday"). Burned out and became a volunteer at London Zoo. Some of the traders were earning millions every year in bonuses, but I suspect at great cost to themselves and those around them.
 
Here's Radio 4 programme that might resonate with @blessmycottonsocks and others.
It's about Dan, in a well-paid but high-stress job, who gave it up to do something he felt more worthwhile.

The blurb doesn't give anything away so here's what happens:
When out running Dan saw someone doing zoo volunteer work and realised he'd like to look after animals instead of money.

Trading places

Aged 19, Dan Simmonds turned down a university place and instead became an oil trader in the City of London.

It was an exciting and ruthless environment driven by big risks and even greater rewards but also ultimately challenged Dan’s values and filled him with a desire to seek something new.

Over a decade later whilst jogging around Regent’s Park Dan made a discovery that would change his life and career.
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PeteS said:
There was an interesting interview on the radio yesterday with a former stock market trader who started at a young age. Did an 80 hour 7 day week (motto from the floor "If you don't work Saturday don't bother coming in on Sunday"). Burned out and became a volunteer at London Zoo. Some of the traders were earning millions every year in bonuses, but I suspect at great cost to themselves and those around them.
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I've worked similar hours (not in a high positioned, well paid job though) and apart from the health factor, I still struggled for money!
 
PeteS said:
There was an interesting interview on the radio yesterday with a former stock market trader who started at a young age. Did an 80 hour 7 day week (motto from the floor "If you don't work Saturday don't bother coming in on Sunday"). Burned out and became a volunteer at London Zoo. Some of the traders were earning millions every year in bonuses, but I suspect at great cost to themselves and those around them.
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We posted at the same time. :)
 
escargot said:
Here's Radio 4 programme that might resonate with @blessmycottonsocks and others.
It's about Dan, in a well-paid but high-stress job, who gave it up to do something he felt more worthwhile.

The blurb doesn't give anything away so here's what happens:
When out running Dan saw someone doing zoo volunteer work and realised he'd like to look after animals instead of money.

Trading places
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Yes that was the one.
 
Quote from the programme blurb -

Over a decade later whilst jogging around Regent’s Park Dan made a discovery that would change his life and career.
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Yeah, along the lines of money isn't fucking everything. The wisdom of Solomon right there. :chuckle:
 
escargot said:
Quote from the programme blurb -



Yeah, along the lines of money isn't fucking everything. The wisdom of Solomon right there. :chuckle:
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I guess it's easy to get caught up in the thrill of making dosh. In my 20's I changed jobs moved 75 miles away, earned 5 times the wage I had the previous year, travelled long distances, took no holidays, and enjoyed every minute. Lasted 10 years before interest started to wane and it went downhill from there. Looking back I really don't know how I did it and survived partly intact! Youth I guess.
 
PeteS said:
I guess it's easy to get caught up in the thrill of making dosh. In my 20's I changed jobs moved 75 miles away, earned 5 times the wage I had the previous year, travelled long distances, took no holidays, and enjoyed every minute. Lasted 10 years before interest started to wane and it went downhill from there. Looking back I really don't know how I did it and survived partly intact! Youth I guess.
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Sounds like you caught on in time. :)
 
escargot said:
Here's Radio 4 programme that might resonate with @blessmycottonsocks and others.
It's about Dan, in a well-paid but high-stress job, who gave it up to do something he felt more worthwhile.

The blurb doesn't give anything away so here's what happens:
When out running Dan saw someone doing zoo volunteer work and realised he'd like to look after animals instead of money.

Trading places
Click to expand...

The odd thing is that my change of career wasn't really into something I particularly wanted to do. I left finance and went down the IT route, doing some coding and a little team leading and project management along the way and ultimately ending up as a software test specialist, which I now thoroughly enjoy. I definitely preferred that to coding, as I found it's much more fun putting things to the test and breaking them than it was building them. Before determining that position though, a couple of jobs that really attracted me were a field researcher/forest ranger with the Forestry Commission and a data analyst with the British Antarctic Survey. I didn't pursue the first one as it didn't pay enough to live on (although they would have thrown in a Land Rover with a picture of a tree on the side) and the second one would have involved over-winter stays in the Antarctic which, had I been a single man, would have been a wonderful adventure but, as I was married, wasn't really feasible.
I've got a shedload of testing to carry out today, so I'd better get back to the software on my work's laptop and start telling the developers how ugly their baby is!
 
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