Dinosaurs: New Findings & Theories

hunck

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Yorkshire's 'largest ever dinosaur print' discovered on coast

The print, said to be the largest unearthed in the county, was found by archaeologist Marie Woods.

Experts believe it was left by a large meat-eating dinosaur with a body length of up to 30ft (9m).

It belonged to a large meat-eating dinosaur, possibly a Megalosaurus, which lived between 164 and 175 million years ago," Dr Lomax said.

He added that Ms Woods' discovery had actually turned out to be "a rediscovery", as it had been partially spotted by fossil collector Rob Taylor back in November 2020.

However, despite Mr Taylor posting pictures of his find in a Facebook group dedicated to Yorkshire fossils, it had not been fully exposed at the time and its true importance was not realised, Dr Lomax said.

Plans are now being put in place to recover the print, which according to Ms Woods is in "a fragile state" and is in danger of being "lost to the sea".

If successful, it will go on display at the Rotunda Museum in Scarborough.

Photograph of Marie Woods next to footprint
 

ramonmercado

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The T-Rex count.

Before they were killed off by a meteor that hit Earth 66 million years ago, some 20,000 adults of the iconic ferocious dinosaur predator — Tyrannosaur rex — roamed North America at any given time, researchers have calculated.

That’s not a precise number, and the correct total could be far lower or higher because of uncertainties like how long they lived, how quickly they grew and matured and the rate of their metabolisms. Still, the research, published on Thursday by the journal Science, opens doors in studying long-extinct dinosaurs beyond what can be gleaned from individual fossils.

Skeletal features can tell a lot about an animal. For example, someone looking at a human tooth could infer that it is suited for chewing both plants and meat, and the shape of the skeleton could yield an estimate of how fast a person can run. But the physical attributes cannot tell you how many people live in New York City. ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/science/tyrannosaurus-rex-population.html
 

Nosmo King

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A new dinosaur species discovered, the largest found in Australia.

"Scientists in Australia have classified a new species of dinosaur, discovered in 2007, as the largest ever found on the continent.

The Australotitan cooperensis or "the southern titan", is among the 15 largest dinosaurs found worldwide.

Experts said the titanosaur would have been up to 6.5m (21ft) tall and 30m long, or "as long as a basketball court".

Its skeleton was first discovered on a farm in south-west Queensland."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57394830
 

Trevp666

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I love that they used the international dinosaur measurement metric of "...as long as a basketball court", lol.

How much is that in 'double-decker buses'?
 

Nosmo King

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I love that they used the international dinosaur measurement metric of "...as long as a basketball court", lol.

How much is that in 'double-decker buses'?
That is exactly the queston i asked my self :p

Its about 2.3 double decker buses :hahazebs:

Although it describes the dino being 30m long and a basketball court is only 28m long, so if it is 30m long that would be 2.5 buses
 
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Coastaljames

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This thread is probably pretty sensible and scientific with lots of knowledge.


I therefore may ruin it a tad.

BUT. Something I often think about when I see dinosaurs in movies, tv, even in animatronic representations like in the Natural History museum - why are they pretty much always as roaring ferociously?

I don't think they did. Reptiles, in my limited knowledge, are some of the quietest animals on the planet. You don't hear reptiles roaring, screaming, anything like that.

I think the whole sound thing is a direct derivement from their Greek name of "terrible lizard" - deinos sauros. So, this thing is terrible, it must make terrible scary sounds - like a lion or something equally terible! Except it doesn't mean "terrible" in that sense. A better translation of deinos is "fearfully great"...so big it's scary. Which dinosaurs are.

So. I don't think they roared. I think people made it up about them roaring all the time and being scary because they thought the original Greek name meant something it didn't.


Might all be bxllocks on my part.
 

PeteByrdie

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This thread is probably pretty sensible and scientific with lots of knowledge.


I therefore may ruin it a tad.

BUT. Something I often think about when I see dinosaurs in movies, tv, even in animatronic representations like in the Natural History museum - why are they pretty much always as roaring ferociously?

I don't think they did. Reptiles, in my limited knowledge, are some of the quietest animals on the planet. You don't hear reptiles roaring, screaming, anything like that.

I think the whole sound thing is a direct derivement from their Greek name of "terrible lizard" - deinos sauros. So, this thing is terrible, it must make terrible scary sounds - like a lion or something equally terible! Except it doesn't mean "terrible" in that sense. A better translation of deinos is "fearfully great"...so big it's scary. Which dinosaurs are.

So. I don't think they roared. I think people made it up about them roaring all the time and being scary because they thought the original Greek name meant something it didn't.


Might all be bxllocks on my part.
I saw on a documentary once that they invented the roaring noise for the theropod from the original King Kong. Nobody had had the need to decide what noises a dinosaur might make prior to that. They've been roaring ever since.

Sharks in movies also often roar. They don't in real life.

As for comparisons to reptiles; birds are theropod dinosaurs, and they're noisy little goits. In fact, their variety of vocalisations shows that dinosaurs could have made a range of different noises.
 

Coastaljames

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Sharks in movies also often roar. They don't in real life.

Yeah - neither fish nor reptiles are really known doing a lot of roaring :)

Nobody had had the need to decide what noises a dinosaur might make prior to that. They've been roaring ever since.

Makes sense. This is what annoys me then why places like the Natural History musuem and "high-brow" scientific documentaries depict them as roaring!

In fact, their variety of vocalisations shows that dinosaurs could have made a range of different noises.

Yeah, I'm buying that the smaller ones, the ones with more birdlike physiology, would have made chirrups and trill-like sounds.
 

Nosmo King

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I don't doubt that it very possible. I would imagine a very low, deep "mooing" like a bovine.

Not an open mouthed, sharp toothed, scary roooooooooaaarrrrrr!
Most lizards hiss if they make any sound, but then again dinosaurs arent really lizards.
 

EnolaGaia

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... Something I often think about when I see dinosaurs in movies, tv, even in animatronic representations like in the Natural History museum - why are they pretty much always as roaring ferociously?
I don't think they did. ...
Your intuition that they didn't roar is supported by the evidence and analyses to date - to the extent the fossil record and evolutionary connections provide clues.

These clues are related to what can be determined from evidence for both hearing and capacities for controlled vocalization.

This 2009 article is the most cited overview of prehistoric animals' possible / probable capacities for making communicative sounds ...

Voices of the past: a review of Paleozoic and Mesozoic animal sounds
Phil Senter
Historical Biology, Volume 20, 2008 - Issue 4, pages 255-287
DOI:10.1080/08912960903033327

Abstract
Here, I present a review and synthesis of fossil and neontological evidence to find major trends in the pre-Cenozoic evolution of animal acoustic behaviour. Anatomical, ecological and phylogenetic data support the following scenario. Stridulating insects, including crickets, performed the first terrestrial twilight choruses during the Triassic. The twilight chorus was joined by water boatmen in the Lower Jurassic, anurans in the Upper Jurassic, geckoes and birds in the Lower Cretaceous, and cicadas and crocodilians in the Upper Cretaceous. Parallel evolution of defensive stridulation took place multiple times within Malacostraca, Arachnida and Coleoptera. Parallel evolution of defensive and courtship-related sound production took place in Actinopterygii, possibly as early as the Devonian. Defensive vocalisations by tetrapods probably did not appear until their predators acquired tympanic ears in the Permian. Tympanic ears appeared independently in Diadectomorpha, Seymouriamorpha, Parareptilia, Diapsida and derived Synapsida. Crocodilians and birds acquired vocal organs independently, and there is no anatomical evidence for vocal ability in bird-line archosaurs basal to the avian clade Ornithothoraces. Acoustic displays by non-avian dinosaurs were therefore probably non-vocal. Other aspects of the evolution of acoustic behaviour in these and other lineages are also discussed.

FULL ARTICLE: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08912960903033327
 

EnolaGaia

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Senter's overview article is both massive and 'technical'. Here are some excerpts most relevant to the issue of dinosaurs' vocal capabilities.

First off ... There's little reason to believe vocalization was important (or persistent) among vertebrates until the "age of the dinosaurs."
Members of Archosauria, the archosauriform crown clade, are known from as early as the Middle Triassic (Sereno 1991). Archosauria includes two major lineages, Crurotarsi and Ornithodira (Sereno 1991) (Figure 4). Crurotarsi includes crocodilians (Crocodylia) and several extinct, mostly Triassic taxa (Sereno 1991). Ornithodira includes dinosaurs (Dinosauria) – including birds (Aves) – and pterosaurs (Pterosauria) and a few other extinct forms (Sereno 1991). The vocal organ in extant members of Crurotarsi (crocodilians) is the larynx, whereas in extant members of Ornithodira (birds) it is the syrinx. Because the larynx and syrinx are not homologous, it is most parsimonious to infer that vocalisation arose independently in the two lineages, in which case their common ancestor lacked vocal ability. ...

Focusing on the Ornithodira ...
The syrinx of birds (Ornithodira: Aves) is a series of cartilage rings at the junction of the trachea and primary bronchi, with membranous folds that protrude into the lumen and can be vibrated to produce sound (Brackenbury 1989; King 1989). Vocal production by the syrinx depends on the presence of a clavicular air sac ...

... Without evidence for a clavicular air sac homologous with that of birds, we should not presume that basal birds and non-avian ornithodirans possessed a functioning syrinx.

Leading to this as the bottom line (so far as can be determined at the present state of knowledge) ...
The lack of evidence of a syrinx in ornithodirans outside Ornithothoraces will, no doubt, disappoint fans of roaring movie dinosaurs. However, lack of ability to vocalise does not necessarily mean that such animals were silent altogether. Many extant reptiles communicate with each other and with potential predators by non-vocal acoustic means such as hissing, clapping jaws together, grinding mandibles against upper jaws, rubbing scales together, or use of environmental materials (e.g. splashing against water) (Campbell and Evans 1972; Gans and Maderson 1973; Garrick et al. 1978; Thorbjarnarson and Hernández 1993). Birds also use non-vocal acoustic means of communication such as hissing, bill-clapping, stamping and wing beating (Welty and Baptista 1988; Kear 2005; Nelson 2005). Non-avian theropods with feathered wings may have beaten their wings in acoustic displays as extant birds often do. Sauropod dinosaurs of the family Diplodocidae, known from the Upper Jurassic of North America and Africa (Upchurch et al. 2004), possessed whiplike tail tips that could have produced loud, whiplike cracking sounds for intraspecific communication or in response to predators (Myhrvold and Currie 1997).

And as for the resonating structures known from certain hadrosaurs (cf. Mytho's post above) ...
The morphology of the nasal passage in Lambeosaurinae, a Laurasian clade of Upper Cretaceous ornithischians (Horner et al. 2004), suggests a role in sonic resonation (Weishampel 1981). However, resonation need not be for vocal sounds. Some extant snakes lack vocal cords but possess resonating chambers that emphasise the low frequencies of the hiss (Young 1991). The variety of visual display structures in pterosaurs and dinosaurs (Chapman et al. 1997; Molnar 2005; Unwin 2006) shows that visual communication was important to these animals. They may therefore have relied largely on visual means of communication. Extant precedent for such reliance is found among lizards, in which non-chemical communication is primarily visual (Pough et al. 1998), despite their excellent hearing (Wever 1978).

THE BOTTOM LINE: The fossil record does not support the notion that commonly portrayed dinosaurs vocalized much (if at all) - much less that they routinely "roared" or otherwise made sounds with communicative implications.
 

Coastaljames

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The fossil record does not support the notion that commonly portrayed dinosaurs vocalized much (if at all) - much less that they routinely "roared" or otherwise made sounds with communicative implications.

The fossil record.

Plus the fact lizards and reptiles are very quiet.
 

Jim

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Not a new discovery nor is it a dinosaur. Mastrodonsaurus (a giant amphibian) was a threat to any Triassic dinosaurs, reptile or animal that came for drink. The beasty behaved much like a modern day crocodile.
1623711878486.png
 
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Nosmo King

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New dinosaur footprints have bee found in Kent.

"Footprints of the last of the dinosaurs to have roamed the UK 110 million years ago have been discovered close to the white cliffs of Dover.

At least six different species' prints were found in the cliffs and the foreshore of Folkestone, Kent, after stormy conditions exposed new fossils.

They are believed to have been left behind by ankylosaurs, theropods, and ornithopods.

The fossils have been described as "quite an extraordinary discovery"."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-57529372
 

Comfortably Numb

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Scientists say new dinosaur species is largest found in Australia

BBC Australia News
8 June, 2021


Scientists in Australia have classified a new species of dinosaur, discovered in 2007, as the largest ever found on the continent.

The Australotitan cooperensis or "the southern titan", is among the 15 largest dinosaurs found worldwide.

Experts said the titanosaur would have been up to 6.5m (21ft) tall and 30m long, or "as long as a basketball court".

(...)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-57394830

See also the video in preceding article on same news story:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c1xp198n9prt/dinosaurs
 

blessmycottonsocks

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How did the T. Rex raise itself into a standing position?

Like all known bipedal creatures, the T. Rex almost certainly lay down to rest and sleep.
Equipped with such seemingly useless vestigial arms though, how exactly it managed to get to its feet remains something of a mystery.
- Until now.
The following, meticulously observed, scientific video of a specimen of gallus gallus domesticus just may provide some answers:

 

ramonmercado

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A well-preserved dinosaur footprint has been discovered by a four-year-old girl on a beach.
Lily Wilder spotted it at Bendricks Bay, Barry, in the Vale of Glamorgan - and scientists believe it could help establish how they walked.
The footprint, spotted in January, is 220 million years old and had been preserved in mud.
While it is impossible to tell what type left it, the print is 10cm long and likely from a 75cm tall dinosaur.
National Museum Wales palaeontology curator Cindy Howells described it as "the best specimen ever found on this beach".
(Continues in longer article)

View attachment 34378

She's getting more recognition for the find.

Walking with dinosaurs? A discovery by a four-year-old from Wales may point the way to how the extinct reptiles kept their feet on the ground.

Young Lily from Barry in the Vale of Glamorgan found an impressive fossil footprint in January. It was so good, the 200 million-year-old imprint is now on display at the National Museum Cardiff. Lily's mother said they were "thrilled" the find was going on show.

The fossilised footprint was spotted it at Bendricks Beach, near Barry.
Curators said it was "the best specimen ever found" on a beach.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-57910510
 

Jim

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Albanerpetontid were widespread — scientists dug up thousands of albanerpetontid fossils in locations from Spain to Canada to Japan. These fossils built a picture of a wacky, salamander-like creature with pointy claws, an unusual jaw structure and a four-legged body covered in scales. They were the 1st amphibians to have the sling shot tongue (to date)

Unlike modern amphibians, this group had two separate neck joints, allowing for more flexibility, and an odd jaw joint “that seems to do a kind of flexing movement. It was clearly doing something rather specialized,” Evans says. There was one known albanerpetontid specimen that did have a long, thin bone preserved near its skull, and “I suspected for a long time that they had some sort of ballistic tongue mechanism,” she says. But without more detailed fossils, the hypothesis was hard to prove.

That all changed with the discovery of the skull, which shows in beautiful detail the entire tongue apparatus. “The fact that you could see the long, rodlike bone actually embedded at the base of the tongue pad — that’s really strong evidence that this animal was a tongue-flicker to catch its prey,” says David DeMar, a paleobiologist at Smithsonian Museum of Natural History in Washington, D.C., who was not involved in the study
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ancient-amphibian-oldest-known-animal-slingshot-tongue
 

blessmycottonsocks

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ramonmercado

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Two new dinos.

What's better than a giant, plant-eating dinosaur? Two dinosaurs, of course.

Scientists in China discovered two new dinosaur species when analyzing fossils from the country's northwest regions. Their findings, published in a study in Scientific Reports, conclude that two of the specimens were from previously unknown species.

The dinosaurs are some of the first vertebrates to be reported in the region, "increasing the diversity of the fauna as well as the information on Chinese sauropods," according to the study.

Scientists estimate the species lived around 120 to 130 million years ago, during the early Cretaceous period. Both were sauropods, a category of plant-eating dinos with long necks that includes brachiosaurus.

Scientists named the species Silutitan sinensis (or "silu" which is Mandarin for "Silk Road") and Hamititan xinjiangensis (named for where the fossil specimen was found in Xinjiang).

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027...ver-not-1-but-2-new-dinosaur-species-in-china
 

ramonmercado

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Big-headed pterosaur.

In 2013, a police raid at Santos Harbor in Brazil recovered about 30,000 smuggled fossils, including the most intact specimen of a type of big-headed pterosaur ever found. A new analysis of the fossil provides insight into the flying reptile’s foraging style, flight capability and anatomy, researchers report August 25 in PLOS ONE.

Identified as Tupandactylus navigans, the fossil is a member of a group of pterosaurs called tapejarids. These pterosaurs are known for their oversize, crested skulls, and hail from the early Cretaceous Period, which lasted from about 145 million to 100 million years ago.

Some well-preserved tapejarid fossils have been found in China, but they aren’t as complete as the newly analyzed fossil, and the pterosaur’s anatomy hadn’t been fully described. “This is the first time we have the full skull and the full [body],” says Victor Beccari, a paleontologist at the NOVA School of Science & Technology in Caparica, Portugal.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/pterosaur-stolen-fossil-big-head-walking-flying
 
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