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Doctor Who [Spoilers]

Bullseye_v2_0 said:
"History has been whitewashed", stopped watching right there. I'm not keen on revisionist history.
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Almost all of our history is revisionist history.
Universities and schools now only teach history from a politically-biased/nuanced perspective.
The only way to get a pass at all is to toe the line and follow that narrative, even if it's clearly iffy.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Almost all of our history is revisionist history.
Universities and schools now only teach history from a politically-biased/nuanced perspective.
The only way to get a pass at all is to toe the line and follow that narrative, even if it's clearly iffy.
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Well aware of that, that's why I'm disgusted at modern "education", guess I'm a dinosaur for wanting the truth.
 
Bullseye_v2_0 said:
Well aware of that, that's why I'm disgusted at modern "education", guess I'm a dinosaur for wanting the truth.
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My feelings exactly. I think the search for the truth is righteous, not outdated.
 
Tigerhawk said:
I admit I failed to see through the disguise, I had thought that we'd see the regeneration into Missy. Next week looks like a cracker of an episode!
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Me too on the disguise. I realised that it was a disguise, an that I should recognise the actor, but for a while, I thought it was Paul Kaye again! Only when he was alone with Missy did I realise who the Master was. It will be nice if we get his history filled in - obviously, this is post-Saxon (the PM reference made that clear), so the Master survived his wilful refusal to regenerate.

Even though it was clear where we were headed with regards to the Cybermen, I confess to a slight thrill at seeing a very good facsimile of one of the original Mondasians for the first time, and now in colour!

A great yarn overall, though it's best not to think too scientifically of the relativistic consequences of a huge ship that close to a black hole. I get that time would move at different speeds, but that being so, how would the scanners at the top work? The lifts, too, might be tricky. Good fun though.
 
Does anyone else think the Doctors regeneration won't appear in the final, but in the Christmas special? That might be why he's screaming "NO!", as he missed one Christmas due to regenerating and then fighting the Sycorax...
 
Dinobot said:
Does anyone else think the Doctors regeneration won't appear in the final, but in the Christmas special? That might be why he's screaming "NO!", as he missed one Christmas due to regenerating and then fighting the Sycorax...
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Official word is that the regeneration is in the Christmas Special. Of course, it could start now, and not finish until then. Somehow...

One theory is that he's been regenerating all season, which is why Missy was worried about him earlier.

As for my personal theory...
It's not him. Neither of the regenerations we've seen clips from are the Doctor. It's someone, maybe someone good with disguises, in the pre-credits sequence in the snow, and the hand we see in the preview for next week (on a grassy background) has a very...girly sleeve. Could both the Master and Missy regenerate next week?

Anyway, that's just my idea.
 
I noticed the Doc had longer hair in the regeneration teaser than he did in the rest of the episode. A result of the shooting schedule or something else?
 
I was a bit disappointed with the Cyberman as it didn't open its mouth properly. I found that to be the really seriously freaky thing about them the first time. :creepy:
 
Ooh, I thought they were really going to do it but, nope, apparently Capaldi's Doctor for life now. Or at least till Christmas. The Master/Missy conundrum was quite something, does that count as suicide? He/she will find a way out of it - Simm was particularly nasty and horrible this episode. Nice tension between extreme selfishness and extreme altruism.

And I knew water girl would be back, I was wrong about the monks but glad she wasn't thrown away in the first episode. It got awfully mushy, but I think Capaldi's best, most consistent series has been this one. Worth it to see him handing out the jelly babies. I'll miss Matt Lucas, he's been a real bonus, I half expected the Doc to regenerate into him. But are we on the 10th Planet to meet the original? Looked pretty snowy.
 
It did descend into mushiness towards the end (even Missy was welling up) but that final scene totally blindsided me!

As for Bill seeing herself as normal, but everyone else seeing her as a Cyberman, wasn't something very similar done with a girl not realising she was a Dalek?
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
It did descend into mushiness towards the end (even Missy was welling up) but that final scene totally blindsided me!

As for Bill seeing herself as normal, but everyone else seeing her as a Cyberman, wasn't something very similar done with a girl not realising she was a Dalek?
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That was Oswin in "Asylum of the Daleks", a manifestation of Clara in the Doctor's time stream. It wasn't quite the same though. It was more like Sam in Quantum Leap.

I always suspected Heather would be back, but I wasn't totally happy with her being all Deus ex Machina. I did like that they showed she was still Heather in there, and so she was able to save Bill, and they got to go off together. I wasn't so happy about Bill's tears, now made of the ship stuff, being the thing that brought the Doctor back. Just being in the TARDIS should have been enough, I thought.

I'm not convinced Missy is dead. I'm sure there will be another Master. After all, the Simm Master got out of worse, and the Master has a reputation for just coming back next week. Besides, we don't know for sure that Simm is going to regenerate into Missy. Maybe there's another one between them that she doesn't remember, or just didn't mention to keep Simm off guard.

And, to me at least, it's pretty clear that he's just met himself on the way to the TARDIS at the end of "The Tenth Planet" just before regenerating into Troughton. Moffat has said that part of the Christmas special will be the two of him helping to rescue Gallifrey from the Time War, just before they each regenerate, presumably.
 
So just me who thinks it was a mess then?
 
Oh no, it was a mess. A lot of of good bits that didn't completely come together.
Felt less like a resolution and more like clearing the board for the regeneration and next writer.
 
Xanatic* said:
So just me who thinks it was a mess then?
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No - I didn't understand an awful lot of what was going on, though there was still much to enjoy. Nice touch to use David Bradley, after he played William Hartnell in "An Adventure in Space and Time". Also enjoyed the jelly baby reference, and for a moment, I thought they were going to use David Morrissey's line (when his character believed himself to be the Doctor), but not quite.
 
I must be on a different wavelength from most people thought it was very clear what was going on (although there are obvious - presumably intentional - questions about the whole Missy/Master issue)! Also thought there was a quite clear hint dropped that the Doctor's next incarnation will be female. Also thought David Bradley was a good choice to play First Doctor after 'An adventure in Time And Space'. My only qualm was that Bill is now another character to add to the list of those who can now randomly crop up as a 'Deus ex Machina' !!
 
I understood it too, it was a lot clearer than Matt Smith's grand finale.

Is the 10th Planet the 9th Planet now? (cutbacks)
 
How many series end with the scene 'As if by magic, a puddle appears'.

It all felt a bit rushed and it was a bit odd to see The Doctor sittin on the porch nursing a gun even though he doesn't do guns. Not surprising, given that sonic screwdrivers are like laser pistols these days. Apparently they can't do wood but there is a kill setting on it.
I suppose there was a big discussion on how to give the end an explosive shootout and the ship's pipelines and duct system is as good as any. But the tear?

Pardon my ignorance but why is this tear a motif in all Cyberman masks? Because of Bill?
 
BTW. I know exactly how The Doctor felt when he saw David Bradley as he stumbled from the Tardis on the frozen planet.
I was in Tesco's chilled section and I clocked him looking at the sausages and he turned and gave me the same look. That's the second Doctor I've bumped into at random.
 
First, that's amazing.
Secondly, I seem to remember that one of the Doctor's, Tom Baker I think, used to walk around in his costume.
 
If I'm honest, I also felt the references to virus and the 'Apple' grenade was a bit of a shoehorn.
 
Shadowsot said:
First, that's amazing.
Secondly, I seem to remember that one of the Doctor's, Tom Baker I think, used to walk around in his costume.
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Certainly the coat and hat. A friend saw him boarding a train at Euston and extravagantly doffing the latter to the platform staff :). That's another reason I like Capaldi - I have mentioned before his voice is the same pitch and timbre as Baker's (plus he did that ace impersonation of him a series or two back by merely Anglicising his accent), and dresses like a more sober Pertwee. And they were my Doctors.
 
I think that Missy will regenerate into Roger Delado! (Or at least an actor pretending to be Delgado!)
 
Peripart said:
No - I didn't understand an awful lot of what was going on, though there was still much to enjoy...
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To clarify a little, I sort of followed what was going on, though a lot of the detail didn't stand up to too much scrutiny. Maybe it also didn't help that I was watching on iPlayer on my laptop, so that the dark bits were very dark indeed!

As I say, I enjoyed it immensely, but...

As has been said, we now have another "magical" ex-companion - Clara, Rose, Donna, River Song, now Bill (and probably others*) live on in hugely improbable ways. Once or twice, fair enough, but not all the bleedin' time, please...

Yet another regeneration tease. Are we to assume that all previous Doctors were a bit wet, and all you have to do to cheat death is just decide not to regenerate? I'm guessing that it's only a delay, and we get an adventure with the first Doctor and then Capaldi will change.

I get that time moves slower, the closer you are to a black hole's event horizon, and it's a nice plot device, but I don't get how the lifts would function in such a scenario. Surely, they's either takes years to come when you pressed "call", or they'd rip themselves apart, or both?

Missy was extremely sloppy - if you're going to force your evil former self to regenerate (ie nearly kill him), don't give him enough time to get back to his Tardis and maybe make a cuppa, and oh, I don't know, pull a weapon and shoot you! Make it fast acting, FFS!

Convergent evolution of Cybermen, everywhere there are humans? Maybe, but why would they all have jug handles on their heads?


*Jack, Peri... any more?
 
I really rather liked the episode.
Nu-Who is never going to go the whole hog an kill a companion in this day and age, especially one who was a POC and gay; if they did the backlash would have been huge.
Plus, Bill's exit was, for once, relatively logical, if rather too convenient, within the show.

I thought Simm's Master here was way ahead of the shouty panto villain version of RTD's era; the insanity was still there, just far more vicious.
Also the weird sexual between worked for him as this version of the Master; he is a narcissist, so why wouldn't he be attracted to future him...?

Missy was sublime, the conflict clear to see; the love of chaos, yet the urge to change and help her friend.

As for Capaldi, I do think we'll look back on his tenure, and appreciate quite how good he is and be disappointed that he left when he did.
He's so good with the role, even in stories that aren't much cop, and if we end up with the rumored Kris Marshall as the new incumbent of the TARDIS, then the difference in quality will be marked.
 
One theory I've heard was that Missy wasn't actually the Master, but the Rani posing as the Master. Now, that would be mind-blowing!
 
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