JerryB said:
Oh, I see, modern pagans shouldn't follow old organised religions? Why not? Even the (erroneous) point underpinning Murray's work and Gardiner's wicca is that there was some sort of organised belief system behind tales of witches and withcraft. This (in theory) may have been more ad hoc than the religions of Rome or Greece, but the implication is that even there there's some underlying structure. The religions of Rome and Greece were very varied indeed, so comparisons with more 'modern' religions (i.e. Christianity) are somewhat redundant.
Modern pagans can do what they want WRT 'personal exploration' - that's all fine and dandy, whatever floats your boat, etc.. Everyone does that from day to day anyway, unless they're robots. The point is that to back this up with spurious claims or links to some 'ancient lore' (or whatever) is an exercise in fantasy. Some try to solidify their outlook by claiming links to the past, but it seems that for the majority of the time that this past is simply an imgined construct.
Well, that's nice, that's rich, that is. On the one hand, you're saying that Gardiner's work was largely made up and that much of the lore upon which pagans are
supposed to base their claims is largely false. On the other, you seem to be insisting that modern pagans follow the likes of Gardiner and play by the same rules as members of
organised religions. Why should they, says who?
I'm not exactly saying that what we know of ancient lore and other occult (in the original sense) traditions is entirely false, misappropriated, or faked either. I don't actually believe that to be the case, or at least not as bad as skeptics would like to have us believe. I also believe that the jury may still be out on the validity of Murray's work. I am saying that it should be in the very nature of a spiritual system to be actively interacting with some Living principle of Nature and Reality. Active, dynamic and alive. A Sentient Universe, if you will. If not, then unless it is a system similiar to Buddhism, where the acceptance of Negation and Nothingness appear to lie at the core of belief, then any amount of official books and historical confirmation, the authorised version, would be pointless.
Dead books, dead religion, dead laws, articulated only as a sophisticated form of social control. No Whys. No 'Wow!' factor, no sense of awe, or wonder. Simple the dead hand of time and some interesting mechanical illusions. A Universe filled with Robots.
I can't speak for any pagans, but myself on this one, by the way.
...
And when it comes to underlying structures a read of some of the literature of anthroplogy, folklore studies, or linguistics, Levi Strauss, or Joseph Campbell, for example, would certainly show that there is plenty of evidence for the structures of belief, perhaps in interchangeable, discreet units, which continually re-occur and are given from and substance by people, again and again. Hard wired, or potent virale
memes, I know not.
Let's face it, unless there are aliens in our midst, we all share roots that go way back into the mists of antiquity.
Perhaps, coming up with anything genuinely new, would be a Wonder in itself. Maybe, that's what Fort was after? A New explanation for the Universe? :lol: